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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 7, 2023 17:23:58 GMT
I don't think RTD's suggesting there will be actual magic on the show - more likely, just embracing the more fantastical elements of the franchise and less concern for being 'grounded' or 'taken seriously', like when he brought the show back. We don't need to resell the concept to an audience that only cares for dark and gritty like 05 - we've had a big rise in more light hearted and goofier genre shows in recent years.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Dec 7, 2023 17:27:42 GMT
I don't think RTD's suggesting there will be actual magic on the show - Neither do, I was giving an example of a 'fantasy' scenario that I personally wouldn't object to |
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 9, 2023 11:15:55 GMT
So, before everything explodes tonight, let me touch on something a little more serious, as well as relevant, to the show's new circumstances. I know the Disney deal has people understandably apprehensive. I'm not going to invalidate any of that sentiment (especially not after them trying to starve out actors and writers in the strikes), but there's a key bit of context that I think international, and even some British fans, may not be aware of. The BBC is a public broadcaster and is funded through the license fee - it's not a commercial entity like ITV or ABC/CBS/Fox etc. Any change to the fee impacts what the BBC can spend on shows - everything from news to drama to comedy to online stuff, it's all connected. The fee has been frozen for years, ostensibly to protect elderly Brits, but the effect has been years of shrinking budgets for everything, and now, the Conservative government has given the fee a rise... that is below inflation. Meaning there is a giant gap in the finances of many, many millions. www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67646601To put that into perspective - that shortfall is BIGGER than BBC Two's entire commissioning budget. That's an entire mainstream channel's worth of funding they've lost, and with having to make savings, that will only get bigger. Who is one of the BBC's most expensive series - in fact, its' something of an anomaly among it's bigger names (Call the Midwife, Line of Duty, Father Brown) because of its genre, younger audience and VFX demands. When your producer has had years of restricted funding, and the prospect of any new money being wittheld or insufficient, the question logically arises - can you justify spending that amount on one programme? Not to mention the rampant inflation striking down entire companies and careers, with up to 80% of the UK film/TV workforce being jobless right now. www.theguardian.com/media/2023/nov/08/to-leave-is-heartbreaking-the-film-and-tv-makers-forced-into-other-jobsRemember, the BBC's considerations are not commercial, but what's of 'interest to the British fee-paying public', which dictates what you spend. Silent Witness may not be close to Who's profile, but for what the BBC pays, it's average of 6-7 million seems sound - can the same be said of Who's frequent fluctuations in the last decade? Internationally it does gang busters, but can you justify it to the people who are actually paying for it, back here? Going to Disney, or any partner and making the show a co-pro, was probably the only way things can keep going and not have to worry about domestic as much - His Dark Materials bottomed out to the fours and threes in series 2 and 3, but got to be finished because it didn't depend on the BBC and their audience alone (Warners was the partner there). |
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Post by number13 on Dec 9, 2023 11:57:22 GMT
So, before everything explodes tonight, let me touch on something a little more serious, as well as relevant, to the show's new circumstances. I know the Disney deal has people understandably apprehensive. I'm not going to invalidate any of that sentiment (especially not after them trying to starve out actors and writers in the strikes), but there's a key bit of context that I think international, and even some British fans, may not be aware of. The BBC is a public broadcaster and is funded through the license fee - it's not a commercial entity like ITV or ABC/CBS/Fox etc. Any change to the fee impacts what the BBC can spend on shows - everything from news to drama to comedy to online stuff, it's all connected. The fee has been frozen for years, ostensibly to protect elderly Brits, but the effect has been years of shrinking budgets for everything, and now, the Conservative government has given the fee a rise... that is below inflation. Meaning there is a giant gap in the finances of many, many millions. www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67646601To put that into perspective - that shortfall is BIGGER than BBC Two's entire commissioning budget. That's an entire mainstream channel's worth of funding they've lost, and with having to make savings, that will only get bigger. Who is one of the BBC's most expensive series - in fact, its' something of an anomaly among it's bigger names (Call the Midwife, Line of Duty, Father Brown) because of its genre, younger audience and VFX demands. When your producer has had years of restricted funding, and the prospect of any new money being wittheld or insufficient, the question logically arises - can you justify spending that amount on one programme? Not to mention the rampant inflation striking down entire companies and careers, with up to 80% of the UK film/TV workforce being jobless right now. www.theguardian.com/media/2023/nov/08/to-leave-is-heartbreaking-the-film-and-tv-makers-forced-into-other-jobsRemember, the BBC's considerations are not commercial, but what's of 'interest to the British fee-paying public', which dictates what you spend. Silent Witness may not be close to Who's profile, but for what the BBC pays, it's average of 6-7 million seems sound - can the same be said of Who's frequent fluctuations in the last decade? Internationally it does gang busters, but can you justify it to the people who are actually paying for it, back here? Going to Disney, or any partner and making the show a co-pro, was probably the only way things can keep going and not have to worry about domestic as much - His Dark Materials bottomed out to the fours and threes in series 2 and 3, but got to be finished because it didn't depend on the BBC and their audience alone (Warners was the partner there). Very interesting points, and no doubt Labour will give the BBC some big licence fee rises from later next year, as they did when previously in government. Though I imagine that external funding and programme-making partners will still be essential for the big-budget shows. This has always happened of course but in the past they were usually other public broadcasters.
The irony is that older people are disproportionally likely to vote Conservative, tend to support the licence fee in principle, and in practice, and to watch the BBC. While younger people disproportionally aren't, don't, don't and err - don't.
The TV Licence is undeniably an anachronism, a TV tax by any other name, a leftover from a one-channel analogue age.
But I still think it, or something very similar, is essential to have our national broadcaster carry on being The BBC. Longer-term I'm not holding out much hope for the licence fee and we'll have to choose to become BBC Subscribers, and another part of 'The Fabric of the Nation' will have become a consumer choice. 'Doctor Who' being of course very much a part of that Fabric.
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Post by timleschild on Dec 9, 2023 12:03:30 GMT
So, before everything explodes tonight, let me touch on something a little more serious, as well as relevant, to the show's new circumstances. I know the Disney deal has people understandably apprehensive. I'm not going to invalidate any of that sentiment (especially not after them trying to starve out actors and writers in the strikes), but there's a key bit of context that I think international, and even some British fans, may not be aware of. The BBC is a public broadcaster and is funded through the license fee - it's not a commercial entity like ITV or ABC/CBS/Fox etc. Any change to the fee impacts what the BBC can spend on shows - everything from news to drama to comedy to online stuff, it's all connected. The fee has been frozen for years, ostensibly to protect elderly Brits, but the effect has been years of shrinking budgets for everything, and now, the Conservative government has given the fee a rise... that is below inflation. Meaning there is a giant gap in the finances of many, many millions. www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67646601To put that into perspective - that shortfall is BIGGER than BBC Two's entire commissioning budget. That's an entire mainstream channel's worth of funding they've lost, and with having to make savings, that will only get bigger. Who is one of the BBC's most expensive series - in fact, its' something of an anomaly among it's bigger names (Call the Midwife, Line of Duty, Father Brown) because of its genre, younger audience and VFX demands. When your producer has had years of restricted funding, and the prospect of any new money being wittheld or insufficient, the question logically arises - can you justify spending that amount on one programme? Not to mention the rampant inflation striking down entire companies and careers, with up to 80% of the UK film/TV workforce being jobless right now. www.theguardian.com/media/2023/nov/08/to-leave-is-heartbreaking-the-film-and-tv-makers-forced-into-other-jobsRemember, the BBC's considerations are not commercial, but what's of 'interest to the British fee-paying public', which dictates what you spend. Silent Witness may not be close to Who's profile, but for what the BBC pays, it's average of 6-7 million seems sound - can the same be said of Who's frequent fluctuations in the last decade? Internationally it does gang busters, but can you justify it to the people who are actually paying for it, back here? Going to Disney, or any partner and making the show a co-pro, was probably the only way things can keep going and not have to worry about domestic as much - His Dark Materials bottomed out to the fours and threes in series 2 and 3, but got to be finished because it didn't depend on the BBC and their audience alone (Warners was the partner there). Very interesting points, and no doubt Labour will give the BBC some big licence fee rises from later next year, as they did when previously in government. Though I imagine that external funding and programme-making partners will still be essential for the big-budget shows. This has always happened of course but in the past they were usually other public broadcasters.
The irony is that older people are disproportionally likely to vote Conservative, tend to support the licence fee in principle, and in practice, and to watch the BBC. While younger people disproportionally aren't, don't, don't and err - don't.
The TV Licence is undeniably an anachronism, a TV tax by any other name, a leftover from a one-channel analogue age.
But I still think it, or something very similar, is essential to have our national broadcaster carry on being The BBC. Longer-term I'm not holding out much hope for the licence fee and we'll have to choose to become BBC Subscribers, and another part of 'The Fabric of the Nation' will have become a consumer choice. 'Doctor Who' being of course very much a part of that Fabric.
I think you have too much hope in Labour party. |
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Post by number13 on Dec 9, 2023 12:13:46 GMT
Very interesting points, and no doubt Labour will give the BBC some big licence fee rises from later next year, as they did when previously in government. Though I imagine that external funding and programme-making partners will still be essential for the big-budget shows. This has always happened of course but in the past they were usually other public broadcasters.
The irony is that older people are disproportionally likely to vote Conservative, tend to support the licence fee in principle, and in practice, and to watch the BBC. While younger people disproportionally aren't, don't, don't and err - don't.
The TV Licence is undeniably an anachronism, a TV tax by any other name, a leftover from a one-channel analogue age.
But I still think it, or something very similar, is essential to have our national broadcaster carry on being The BBC. Longer-term I'm not holding out much hope for the licence fee and we'll have to choose to become BBC Subscribers, and another part of 'The Fabric of the Nation' will have become a consumer choice. 'Doctor Who' being of course very much a part of that Fabric.
I think you have too much hope in Labour party. On the contrary, very little hope, but some expectations based on past performance! |
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 9, 2023 15:57:47 GMT
Who is one of the BBC's most expensive series - in fact, its' something of an anomaly among it's bigger names (Call the Midwife, Line of Duty, Father Brown) because of its genre, younger audience and VFX demands. When your producer has had years of restricted funding, and the prospect of any new money being wittheld or insufficient, the question logically arises - can you justify spending that amount on one programme? Not to mention the rampant inflation striking down entire companies and careers, with up to 80% of the UK film/TV workforce being jobless right now. www.theguardian.com/media/2023/nov/08/to-leave-is-heartbreaking-the-film-and-tv-makers-forced-into-other-jobsRemember, the BBC's considerations are not commercial, but what's of 'interest to the British fee-paying public', which dictates what you spend. Silent Witness may not be close to Who's profile, but for what the BBC pays, it's average of 6-7 million seems sound - can the same be said of Who's frequent fluctuations in the last decade? Internationally it does gang busters, but can you justify it to the people who are actually paying for it, back here? Going to Disney, or any partner and making the show a co-pro, was probably the only way things can keep going and not have to worry about domestic as much - His Dark Materials bottomed out to the fours and threes in series 2 and 3, but got to be finished because it didn't depend on the BBC and their audience alone (Warners was the partner there). Very interesting points, and no doubt Labour will give the BBC some big licence fee rises from later next year, as they did when previously in government. Though I imagine that external funding and programme-making partners will still be essential for the big-budget shows. This has always happened of course but in the past they were usually other public broadcasters.
The irony is that older people are disproportionally likely to vote Conservative, tend to support the licence fee in principle, and in practice, and to watch the BBC. While younger people disproportionally aren't, don't, don't and err - don't. The irony-within-irony (Ironiception! BAAWWNG!) here being for a decade, and people within the business have screamed at them over this, the BBC failed to invest in younger skewing programming - preteens, teens and pretty much anyone under 40. Even as CBBC underwent a mini-renaissance with the likes of Wolfblood, Hetty Feather, Dumping Ground and the too-short lived reboot of Demon Headmaster from Emma Reeves, they had funding reductions, no advertising, commissions were taking longer to happen, and now they're going to be an online only channel (and considering the UK hasn't exactly got universal reliable broadband... yeah). Never mind BBC3 being dead for years and returning with an anemic line-up until more recently. Who has pretty much been the only thing for these audiences they supported with an reliability, and obviously that hasn't been free of gaffes.
Government mishandling has been a major issue for the BBC, but it also cannot be denied there has been leadership problems within the organization, too much 'thinking in the now' ( ironically, probably the most conservative, as in sticking to dependables and not doing much innovating, it's been in decades) and a problem with confusing 'efficiency' with 'don't try and create actual tracks for new creators and minds to come to the BBC, so we can freshen the blood'. Look at axing Doctors, a training ground that costs peanuts to make, as another example of not thinking ahead.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Dec 9, 2023 19:49:53 GMT
By the way, regardless of RTD saying new new Who starts at Christmas, according to iPlayer this trilogy is "Doctor Who 2023-", not "Doctor Who 2005-2023"
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 19:57:13 GMT
By the way, regardless of RTD saying new new Who starts at Christmas, according to iPlayer this trilogy is "Doctor Who 2023-", not "Doctor Who 2005-2023" Well, yes. Disney's money kicked in for these specials. But he's written - and Dinsey have picked up - Ncuti's era as the soft reboot Season 1. It's not going to be massive differences - it's always The Doctor in the TARDIS on adventures ultimately - but we're now in the real world out of the "New Who" era. In Universe, it even feels that way too. Until told anything else, that Tennant Doc can keep revisiting old faces on Earth and become a curator if they like.... While THE Doctor - which isn't just a name, but a promise, after all - gets to do what they've done for 60 years and go for An Adventure In Space And Time. Binary has been the theme, the idea of this "season" and to have differing paths feels earned to me. The Doctor gets to leave the weariness, The Time War, Gods Of Ragnarok (everything Ncuti said, basically) behind and retire. And The Doctor ALSO gets to start anew. New adventures, new friends. Perfect binary ending. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 20:10:55 GMT
So from The Giggle what do we think will come up in Ncuti's first run?
We got the Toymaker's legions set up, "the one who waits" (telling ya....it's Susan) and The Master's return, with another lady's hand with red nailvarnish as a setup..on top of The Meep's threat of "The Boss"
I can see one or two of those but knowing that Ncuti was doing two series before transmission of his first ep lets RTD do a LOT of set up well in advance.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 9, 2023 20:13:59 GMT
The Master's return, with another lady's hand with red nailvarnish as a setup.. I really love that they don't even try to have it make spatial sense like, where is 'she' supposed to be standing? Right on the edge? Is she climbing up the building? In fact, where did she even come from? |
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Post by fitzoliverj on Dec 9, 2023 20:16:14 GMT
Omega has to do a lot of waiting |
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Post by mark687 on Dec 9, 2023 20:19:22 GMT
So from The Giggle what do we think will come up in Ncuti's first run? We got the Toymaker's legions set up, "the one who waits" (telling ya....it's Susan) and The Master's return, with another lady's hand with red nailvarnish as a setup..on top of The Meep's threat of "The Boss" I can see one or two of those but knowing that Ncuti was doing two series before transmission of his first ep lets RTD do a LOT of set up well in advance. Plus Beep's Boss and You Know Who  Regards mark687 |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 20:45:38 GMT
Not sure what to think about this. On the one hand, it's clearly posturing; on the other hand, I have got this idea for a one-season scenario where history is changed so that there's always been magic... Listening to the in-vision commentary, the setup is not too far from this. It's only some episodes though, apparently episode 3 is very hard SF |
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Post by timleschild on Dec 9, 2023 21:09:04 GMT
Omega has to do a lot of waiting Tennant is "the one who waits". Sat around on earth. & becomes a villain? PLOT TWIST! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 21:12:18 GMT
The Master's return, with another lady's hand with red nailvarnish as a setup.. I really love that they don't even try to have it make spatial sense like, where is 'she' supposed to be standing? Right on the edge? Is she climbing up the building? In fact, where did she even come from? They make a joke of that in the commentary, referring to her "hovering in the sky over London" and RTD quickly moves the conversation on. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 21:14:03 GMT
From The Giggle commentary, some future talk:
The credits originally had David and Donna then Ncuti and Millie in front of the TARDIS in place of the faces in the credits. After Moffat said it was naff, RTD dropped all of it.
The Vlinxx will be back and looking to be in better shape.
RTD thinks all the Doctors have now separated at some point now thanks to The Toymaker's prize to The Doctor and there's older Doctors of all of them out there with no issue, he even mentions Big Finish. "They're ALL out there now, like Colin Baker once turned up to save Patrick Troughton's life".
"The Toymakers Legions...ARE coming. He's one of a pantheon"
Doctor Who is going more "out there" like The Toymaker and The Mind Robber.
Russell is done with post-regen trauma eps, so wanted Ncuti to hit the ground running. I can't agree more with hating the post regen trauma. Gimme Eleventh Hour like any day.
The Toymaker in his banished box will be mentioned in the next series.
The 14th Doctor needed to retire, to "get better".
The 14th's TARDIS is a copy but there's "proof" that Ncuti has the old one coming up.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 21:14:32 GMT
So from The Giggle what do we think will come up in Ncuti's first run? We got the Toymaker's legions set up, "the one who waits" (telling ya....it's Susan) and The Master's return, with another lady's hand with red nailvarnish as a setup..on top of The Meep's threat of "The Boss" I can see one or two of those but knowing that Ncuti was doing two series before transmission of his first ep lets RTD do a LOT of set up well in advance. So apparently (also from the commentary) the legion comes up three times in the next two seasons, but the Master doesn't. But of course we all know by now that RTD lies! |
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Post by timleschild on Dec 9, 2023 21:17:37 GMT
Omega has to do a lot of waiting Tennant is "the one who waits". Sat around on earth. & becomes a villain? PLOT TWIST! Tennant is THE VALEYARD! Only because I wanna see him in that Michael Jayston costume. |
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 9, 2023 22:34:56 GMT
Given they made Trinity Wells into an Alex Jones type in The Giggle, and we've seen conspiracy protestors in the filming of S2, I wonder if she's going to become a more prominent player going forward?
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