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Post by number13 on Nov 26, 2023 22:17:40 GMT
Now, with hindsight, we can all guess why Donna's daughter chose the name Rose, it being of a name of some significance to the Tenth Doctor!
But as a fun imagined 'Easter Egg' for fans of the original comic strip / BF adaptation of 'The Star Beast', I'll mention that it occurred to me that there is a flower called: and according to that Gardeners' World article: 'rose of Sharon symbolises ... healing'.
Coincidence? Nah, I'm a Doctor Who fan. I don't believe in coincidence, only continuity!
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Post by sherlock on Nov 26, 2023 23:06:07 GMT
In true 2000s nostalgia I missed it yesterday so caught the BBC3 repeat.
Its pacing is rapid (which feels true to the comic) and in tried and true RTD style its ending makes more emotional sense than any plot sense.
Beep the Meep on TV was as glorious as expected.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 27, 2023 0:02:46 GMT
Looks great, moves like a lightning bolt, consistently funny and a cast who fully get the assignment. It's like the best parts of Flux, but it finally has the balance, and emotional breathing room, that I felt undercut Chibnall's rollercoaster mindset. The fact that we finally have some subtext and an actual, meaningful theme (identity; assumptions and its weaponization for harmful purposes, like Rose's bigot bullies or the Beep using its cuteness as a disguise; reckoning with past choices and having doubts about them) in the episode really is night and day. Fun can still have substance. All executed perfectly? No, but it's a step up. 14 allows Tennant to be less manic and have more a gravity, a weariness while also, interestingly, still being funny but in a more classical way as opposed to 10's geeky quipping and wisecracking. Tate as Donna - like she never left, and the chemistry these two have is simply magic; one of the best actor duos this show ever had. Madeley brings a warmth yet assertiveness to Shirley that smashes right through what could've been an overly pitiable or 'soft' character: her 'don't make me the problem' ensures she keeps agency and control in a disabling moment, perfectly avoiding something patronizing. Margoyles as Beep - do I even have to say? Finney's Rose - I like her, she's cute but has a determination right off the old Noble block, but it does feel like she dips out in Act 3 (indeed, her bond with Beep and the fallout of the betrayal feels weirdly undercooked. Instead, we have scenes with Fudge for... some reason? Because he's from the comics, but does he really do anything here?) before the big reveal.
Speaking of which - I can roll with the splitting up through birth explanation, and I think it makes the 'letting go' bit work fine - after all, it still ensures the Doctor can't solve it with some new thing they just invented or secret TARDIS trick. 100% mechanically logical? - ehh, but RTD's always placed a bigger emphasis on heart and emotional truth over the kind of obsessive structure that dominates a lot of writing discourse these days. It's an empowering mum-daughter moment and, even with a duff gag about male presentation, it's got that heart in the right place. Indeed, a lot of LGBT kids out there will probably take them to heart, feeling like someone is listening amidst a culture in the UK that, frankly, is despicably callous. Whatever the angry beardos on Youtube think, Rose and Donna will mean something to those who actually need it.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 27, 2023 2:21:51 GMT
Take two and…… we know streamers LOVE it when we watch twice….still just as much fun. Moves like a shot. Silly except when it isn’t. Emotionally resonant. Tennant has slightly recalibrated to make it the 10th Doctor but different. A little more restrained. Tate really is amazing. ….this time without headphones and yeah, the music mix does strike me as a little overpowering in spots. And I did miss it, there is a bit of the infamous Murray Gold comedy scoring that drove me crazy for a decade but it wasn’t as egregious as his first time. Anyway, the feels both fresh but also comforting in its familiarity….and that isn’t an easy rope to walk. Well done. On to next Saturday.
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Post by timleschild on Nov 27, 2023 11:15:32 GMT
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Post by mark687 on Nov 27, 2023 12:53:24 GMT
Regards mark687
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 13:16:00 GMT
On re-watch, even small bits not mentioned work so well - I loved the jokes about Susie Mare and Nerys. Brings back people Donna often spoke about but seems to have given them...rather unfortunate not-mentioned-but-hinted-at fates. Also everyone's different reaction to your man sleeping on the couch with headphones, oblivious to the destruction outside, or the aliens in his house. The Meep's look over at him...priceless. Or Shaun's reaction when he comes back in to chaos.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 27, 2023 14:03:05 GMT
On re-watch, even small bits not mentioned work so well - I loved the jokes about Susie Mare and Nerys. Brings back people Donna often spoke about but seems to have given them...rather unfortunate not-mentioned-but-hinted-at fates. Also everyone's different reaction to your man sleeping on the couch with headphones, oblivious to the destruction outside, or the aliens in his house. The Meep's look over at him...priceless. Or Shaun's reaction when he comes back in to chaos. yeah that was a sight gag that landed even funnier on rewatch. Also Tennant’s standing in for all of us if we ever got a chance to run around the TARDIS was both perfect and more than a little moving.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 14:13:20 GMT
No wonder - compare this to the cramped TARDIS we just left behind (easily my least favourite - Jodie and the companions would have to do exposition on the staircase as the console was too cramped) and it's night and day. Also wheelchair friendly unlike the recent ones with stairs. I have to be honest though...not the best with even small heights, think I'd get vertigo on the entrance way!
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Post by timleschild on Nov 27, 2023 15:10:02 GMT
What a wonderful moment
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Post by timleschild on Nov 27, 2023 15:22:51 GMT
Some lovely pix of some old favourites in a new favourite
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Post by sherlock on Nov 27, 2023 16:26:21 GMT
Looks like Pat Mills and Dave Gibbons had a good time, well aside from dealing with comic publishers.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Nov 27, 2023 16:34:39 GMT
Okay so...I used to be quite active on this forum several years ago and have have continued to lurk from the sidelines, but stopped actively contributing a while ago, I'm not sure if any of you will really remember me or care to take notice of my thoughts...full warning...I was not really a fan of this episode so I appreciate this will probably read like I'm dropped in again to have a moan/troll you all...i can assure you that really isn't my intention. (I'm not very good at writing reviews so apologies if this reads as kinda jumbled). Honestly I sorta fell out of love with Doctor Who again during the Whittaker era and only watched a few of her episodes, I've also rarely had the time/money to follow Big Finish in recent years, I was never a huge fan of the RTD era/10th Doctor but all the buzz and rumours around the specials and RTD returning persuaded me to tune in with an open mind. Having watched The Star beast just once and mulled over my thoughts for a few days I felt like sharing...feel free to ignore as honestly reading through your thoughts I feel like I'm ruining the mood a bit (For reference, my favourite eras of Classic Who are the 1960's and Hinchcliffe years for Classic Who, I generally prefer Who when it's a bit darker/more experimental and the more cerebral introspective tone of the Capaldi seasons were far and away my favourite era of the revival series). The best way for me to sum this up is it felt like a rather generic and weirdly...hollow...coda/missing episode to Series 4 rather than it's own brand new exciting mini era of the show...if you are a fan of RTD's who this episode was probably like a warm hug from an old friend...if you aren't this episode dosen't land the same way. I have very little nostaglia for the 10th Doctor/Donna pairing so basing the specials around their relationship wasn't a hook that personally appealed to me all that much, I'm fully aware that I'm looking at the episode through my own personal biases so perhaps I'm being a bit harsh. So the bad (for me at least): All of RTD's writing tropes are full display here for better or worse-the well itentioned but somewhat clumsy (and not very subtle) social commentary, a deux ex machina ending that comes suddenly out of knowhere, characters telling us not showing us how to feel, cheesy humour, occasionally clunky dialogue (in fairness clunky dialgue is a staple of most Who episodes) contrived plot points that only serve to cut corners in the script,the plot jumping quickly into a sci-fi adventure but pausing every so often for characters to randomly talk about their day to day lives and relationships etc and an even more overpowered sonic scredriver. There is alot going on in the episode in terms of plot-the mystery of The Doctor's old face retuning, the Beep's plans, catching up with the Nobles , Rose's story...all crammed into a hour and due to the rapid pacing I felt the character beats felt somewhat undercooked. The episode opens with a somewhat clunky scene of the Doctor and Donna talking to the camera telling us how dangerous it would be for Donna to remember her adventures with the Doctor...yet the Doctor makes little attempt to hide his sonic screwdriver and leaps around like a madman when escorting the nobles out of their house, and for all the talk/build up the resolution to this character arc feels rushed and conviently hand waved away the end by the binary/non-binary stuff with Rose (though I did like the call back to Wilf/10 in the end of time with Dr and Donna either side of the glass in the Beep's spacechip...I did wonder why there was random class partition in the cockpit of the ship?), coupled with the Beep's imminent destruction of London which is conviently dialed back at the very last second (wouldn't bits the city still be burning?)...it kinda felt like the episode was building and building to a epic climax that never actually happens, it just felt...flat to me? We are told that Rose is finally happy to be herself...but the character was somewhat underwritten I'm not sure I truly got a sense of who she really is as a person? Maybe her and the Beep could have had more time to get to know it each other, Meeps betrayal felt very sudden. As a 60th anniversary special, it just didn't feel very...well special, it was a standard run around episode of Doctor Who (which was probably the point to be fair) that just served to get the Doctor and Donna together again...here's hoping th eother 2 specials references other eras and doctors. The Good: The cinematography and special effects were fantastic, you can definitely see the effects ofthe Disney money on full display. Beep the Meep is a brilliant addition to the series-fantastic design and vocal performance and I can see it going down very well with younger viewers. As clumsy as I felt some of the social commentary was, this episode gets full marks for inclusiveness, we are long overdue for more Trans and *Disabled (*erm sincere apologies if that isn't the right term? not really sure how to phrase it?) representation in the show and I really liked Yasmin Finney's performance as Rose (even though she looks a bit older than the character is supposed ot be). The new tardis interior is fantastic and expansive-though it looks a bit sterile and empty right now. Tennant and Tate slip right back into the roles like they haven't been away (and thanks to BF they haven't) and their chemistry remains as brilliant as ever, Tennant remains an emotionally engaging and energetic lead his performance is more subtle this time around and you can see traces of 11/12/13 in his peformance...though this feels like a calmer and more serious 10th Doctor than a truly new regeneration. As generic and vintage RTD as the storyline was I did find it funny and watchable...I'm not a huge fasn of his style of Who but I have in some ways missed how zany he can be. So my review probably reads like a confused angry rant...I'm certainly not angry about the episode just somewhat...indifferent? Overall I found the episode reasonably enjoyable but oddly bland/rushed and somewhat emotionally hollow, it was vintage RTD with all his tropes and style on full display (for better or worse), as someone who holds little nostaglia for the first Tennant/Tate era this episode leaned a little too hard into past glories (though that is more my own tastes than an issue with the episode itself) so 'more of the same' 'and remember that' wasn't enough to emotionally engage me. As a 60th anniversary special I felt it was rather forgettable, though this is the 1st of 3rd tighly linked episodes and I think/hope some of my issues will be clarified by the other episodes. A enjoyable enough way to pass a hour, and a solid enough start to RTD2...although I think his style of Who may not really be for me personally as viewer (though I do prefer Eccleston's series rather more than Tennant's run so perhaps it's more the 10th Doctor himself I'm not a huge fan of), I am at least now curious to see what is going to happen next which is a good thing I suppose (honestly I found the Chibnall episodes I watched slightly...boring for the most part...but that's a conversation for a different day). I'd give it either a 5 or 6 out of 10, I think a rewatch is needed. Glad it seems to have gone down well here though, the viewing figures are very promising for the future. Apologies for dropping in after so long and posting a wall of text. Hope you are all well.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Nov 27, 2023 17:22:17 GMT
Looks like Pat Mills and Dave Gibbons had a good time, well aside from dealing with comic publishers.
I suspect Panini could not afford to make such payments, alas.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 17:34:52 GMT
Looks like Pat Mills and Dave Gibbons had a good time, well aside from dealing with comic publishers.
I suspect Panini could not afford to make such payments, alas.
They're worth billions! Massive sponsorships with UFC, WWE, the BBC, English Premier League, the NFL and many, many more. The cards and stickers may make more money, but Pannini Group can't plead poverty!
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Post by timleschild on Nov 27, 2023 17:35:19 GMT
Looks like Pat Mills and Dave Gibbons had a good time, well aside from dealing with comic publishers.
I suspect Panini could not afford to make such payments, alas.
Panini Groups revenue €751 million (2014).
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Post by fitzoliverj on Nov 27, 2023 17:41:48 GMT
I suspect Panini could not afford to make such payments, alas.
They're worth billions! Massive sponsorships with UFC, WWE, the BBC, English Premier League, the NFL and many, many more. The cards and stickers may make more money, but Pannini Group can't plead poverty!
Panini Group, maybe, but we're talking about Panini UK . I don't pretend to know the corporate structure, but I suspect Panini UK is a subsidiary of Panini Group and probably subsists entirely on its sales and is not subsidised by its parent company. The relevant question is whether the UK operation would have the money to pay ex gratia payments, and I doubt they have access to sticker album funds.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 17:44:51 GMT
I suspect Panini could not afford to make such payments, alas.
Panini Groups revenue €751 million (2014). Well, firstly that's Panini Group. Who make most of their money from football stickers. The quoted figure is revenue, not profit, and dates from 2014. Panini UK, who publish Doctor Who Magazine, made a profit last year of £2.8m, compared to a loss of £400k the year before. Still not a small amount, but there's no way of telling if this year is on track to be profitable again. Hats off to Bad Wolf and the BBC though for giving them a payment even when they didn't need to. Mills and Gibbons deserve some reward for the use of their work. Wonder if they got anything when BF did their adaptation?
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Post by timleschild on Nov 27, 2023 17:49:39 GMT
Panini Groups revenue €751 million (2014). Well, firstly that's Panini Group. Who make most of their money from football stickers. The quoted figure is revenue, not profit, and dates from 2014. Panini UK, who publish Doctor Who Magazine, made a profit last year of £2.8m, compared to a loss of £400k the year before. Still not a small amount, but there's no way of telling if this year is on track to be profitable again. Hats off to Bad Wolf and the BBC though for giving them a payment even when they didn't need to. Mills and Gibbons deserve some reward for the use of their work. Wonder if they got anything when BF did their adaptation? I know. But they are not poor. They could pay properly.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 18:12:38 GMT
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