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Post by bethhigdon on May 13, 2024 15:24:25 GMT
RTD still running with the 'I was adopted' garbage then. Not finished watching yet because it has been too nice weather to sit in front of a computer screen, but what I've completed so far... very lowest common denominator comedy. If only it were possibly to slow down the iPlayer playback a tad so I could actually hear everything Ncuti is saying clearly rather than relying on subtitles. He says his lines just that bit too quickly for me to catch it all. Or is that just an age thing? It could also be a sound mixing thing.
It's been a problem for the past ten years or more where productions won't spend the money on proper sound people on set in the mistaken belief that it can all be re-edited and mixed in post.
It why it's been increasingly harder and harder to hear dialogue while sound effects and music are way too loud.
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Kestrel
Chancellery Guard
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Post by Kestrel on May 14, 2024 11:58:23 GMT
So CDF recently uploaded a new/updated version of their First Doctor documentary, and while I've not yet had time to watch it all the way through, I did make it to a point where, in discussing the early production of the show (before they'd even settled on the premise) that, I think, is very relevant to my comments on "Who was this for?" Basically, I intend to embrace to logical fallacy of Argument From Authority because, so it happens, a suit at the BBC 60-ish years ago agrees with me: That's from a report written by C.E. Webber on 29. March 1963 summarizing the discussions that decided on the original character archetypes for what would become the first TARDIS team. Victory is mine! ..... Anyway, I have been thinking more about Space Babies of late, and reading what other people have thought about it, and even watched a couple of reviews on YouTube (I really only fallow two channels that cover it aside from the aforementioned CDF), and I think I need to... revise my opinions somewhat. I certainly stand by all of my negative criticisms -- it definitely did remind me of all my least-liked elements from the RTD1 era, and I do think it didn't really end on a great note, even ignoring that fart joke... BUT I do think I didn't quite give enough credit to the scenes it did really well. As well as the things it didn't do poorly -- namely the hasty on-boarding, which there was never gonna be an elegant way to do well, so I'm glad they at least did it *quickly.* Like... the scene where the Doctor explains that Gallifrey is gone? It worked really well. It very quickly and succinctly explained both to viewers and to Ruby that it was a traumatic experience, and that the Doctor is still hurt by it, reflecting that one can recover from trauma (tying back to the bigeneration thing) but never fully heal. Gatwah's delivery in that scene was also pretty excellent -- the man's got range. The first scene with NAN-E was also excellent. It was very short, but did a fantastic job at building up emotional resonance with her explanation of *why* she was masquerading as an AI. I've said it before, but it bears repeating, creating that emotional resonance is -- by far -- Davies' greatest strength as a writer. And I think the slight social commentary on the plight of refugees and the the callousness of certain laws related to childbirth were also well-done, without coming across as overblown or ridiculous as can sometimes be the case when Doctor Who does these things (but the less said about Kill The Moon, the better). And I still love that short speech about nobody being born wrong -- I just wish it wasn't being delivered to a baby who looked perpetually confused and like they really didn't want to be there. It could also be a sound mixing thing. It's been a problem for the past ten years or more where productions won't spend the money on proper sound people on set in the mistaken belief that it can all be re-edited and mixed in post.
It why it's been increasingly harder and harder to hear dialogue while sound effects and music are way too loud.
Yeah, things have gotten really out of hand w/r/t sound mixing. To the point where newer TVs actually have options designed to increase dialog clarity. Definitely worth digging through those options if you have a newer TV! But also, FWIW, I didn't notice any particularly out-of-whack audio levels when watching via the Disney Plus app, so if there are audio mixing issues, they may not be universal. |
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Post by thegreendeath on May 15, 2024 15:23:23 GMT
Really didn’t enjoy that at all. Really hope it lands for the public at large and I love Who doing well in the popular consciousness, though for me I think it’s time to take a break (gave RTD2 4 specials and 1 episode and liked each less than the one before). Given how it's already available to watch anyways, you might want to check out The Devil's Chord before you make up your mind completely. General consensus is, is that's better than Space Babies and is mostly the reason both episodes were released together. I didn’t enjoy any of the stories from Giggle on and only liked the previous two okay (and have rarely rated RTD’s scripts). I’d rather spend the time on a show I like (Kamen Rider Geats or The Unfettered Shogun currently) or watch a movie or take a walk. I hate spending time with things I don’t like, unless it’s absolutely necessary (like taxes). |
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Kestrel
Chancellery Guard
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Post by Kestrel on May 16, 2024 0:45:03 GMT
Easily the last place I'd ever expect someone to mention Abarenbo Shogun!  |
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Post by thegreendeath on May 16, 2024 2:58:34 GMT
Easily the last place I'd ever expect someone to mention Abarenbo Shogun! Haha, happy you know it! I got obsessed w it when my wife and I saw a Matsuken Samba pop-up in a mall in Kyoto. Lately Dr Who audio and live action Japanese movies and TV are my primary hobbies. |
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Kestrel
Chancellery Guard
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Post by Kestrel on May 16, 2024 5:10:33 GMT
Hahaha... you have no idea how hard I am resisting the urge to bombard you with recommendations.
I will say, at least, that if you haven't seen Twilight Samurai (2002), you might want to give it a try. One of my favorite samurai films (right up there with the Kurosawas).
And I'm obligated to also point you at the TV show Trick, which is one of my top three all-time favorites. It, however, is much more of a... YMMV kind of show. It has a very unique vibe, blending a kind of absurdist surrealism with mystery, comedy and romance (in that order).
Sorry for the unsolicited recs... as might be obvious, I really just can't help myself.
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Post by thegreendeath on May 16, 2024 14:22:53 GMT
Hahaha... you have no idea how hard I am resisting the urge to bombard you with recommendations. I will say, at least, that if you haven't seen Twilight Samurai (2002), you might want to give it a try. One of my favorite samurai films (right up there with the Kurosawas). And I'm obligated to also point you at the TV show Trick, which is one of my top three all-time favorites. It, however, is much more of a... YMMV kind of show. It has a very unique vibe, blending a kind of absurdist surrealism with mystery, comedy and romance (in that order). Sorry for the unsolicited recs... as might be obvious, I really just can't help myself. No apologies necessary, I love getting them! I have Twilight Samurai in my queue. I really like Yoji Yomaji already for his work on Tora-San (my wife and I have watched the first ten so far and enjoy them enough we went to the Tora-San museum in Shibamata). I’m super curious as to how Yomaji’s aesthetic works with Jidaigeki and am excited to see the whole trilogy. Your recommendation bumps it up in the queue, try to get to it this month! I read the description for Trick and it sounds interesting but I can’t seem to find it streaming anywhere. Either way, that will be a little longer just because I’m kind of slow moving on shows and have a few I want to finish off before adding more. Thanks again for the recs! I won’t keep spamming this thread but maybe we could start a Japanese drama thread somewhere else? |
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Post by number13 on May 18, 2024 21:06:01 GMT
I didn't want to add my viewpoint to this thread before I'd gauged the reaction from people here. After all, everyone might have really loved this, and there's nothing worse than a relentless whinger sucking the life out of everyone's enjoyment, is there? As the general view is mainly average at best, however, I thought I'd add my opinion. And if you enjoyed the episode, I'd advise you to skip the following pathetic rant. In fact, I've put it in spoilers - there are no spoilers, but I don't want to annoy anyone who enjoyed it - because I didn't, I'm sorry to say.
{Spoiler} I have to be upfront: I haven't seen this to the end (just as I didn't see the Goblin story to the end). After 50 years of not missing an episode, I actually couldn't get though it without yelling at the television. Yes, RTD's Christmas specials are notoriously lightweight, and yes, RTD's series openers are equally undemanding, although these are excuses that just don't wash here; this is astonishingly bad.
Back in 2005, RTD drip-fed information about the Doctor and the Time Lords over a few episodes so as not to overwhelm or bore the casual viewer. Here, 20 years later, the latest Doctor explains who he is to Rose #2 (for the sake of any new viewers who might have been hooked by the generous publicity): "I was adopted. They were a bit posh." I'm paraphrasing, of course, but that's the gist. That's how the mysterious traveller in time and space describes himself and the new, controversial Timeless Child idea to his bubbly new travelling companion - funny he's not mentioned it previously over the last 50 years isn't it? Who is this pre-nursery dialogue for?
For a show that has weaved diversity and inclusivity into its stories convincingly and seamlessly since 2005 (or before), to have it all 'messaged' with the subtlety of a sledge-hammer is deeply patronising and clumsy. I do lay all this at RTD's door, because he has been so vociferous about the brilliance of his new vision for Doctor Who, and scathing to those who don't rate it. To misquote the Sixth Doctor, "I'm the showrunner whether you like it or not." And quite honestly, I wonder if he's using this show he claims to love as an audition for being a writer for Disney, or if he has lost the plot. Because this is dire television and a heart-breaking dumbing down of my favourite show.
But don't worry - there's Disney budgets to wow us. We don't need drama, pathos, character, a plot. Just fill the screen with cartoon CGI and RTD can spread the thinnest of pre-nursery plots over the running time with a few scenes first done more effectively years earlier. Throw back those jowls, Russell, and guffaw about Doctor Who fans who 'don't like change.' Don't display any humility at all. These miniscule viewing figures - only the recent Sea Devils story got lower - would be bad news at the arse-end of a series, but to get two-and-a-half million for a saturation-promoted 'all new' series opener, with a bold new Doctor and state-of-the-art effects (propped up by the Eurovision event that scored nearly 8 million)... well, its pretty poor whichever way you look at it. It's almost as if the audience has turned it's back on this charmless new style. Less than 2 million in a couple of weeks, anyone? Hopefully the I-Player and catch-up figures will lend a few crumbs of favour for this new 'fantasy' version of Doctor Who. But, good grief, serve up shit like this and you deserve to go down the plughole.
I haven't watched it and don't intend to (I said after Goblinmas 'only if the reviews on here are amazing' and no, overall they aren't) but (as an impresario who knew what his audiences wanted would say) 'Corks!' That bad.
Change is part of 'Doctor Who' and I've gone with it in real time from 'Terror of the Autons' to 'The Giggle' so I can hardly be accused of being resistant to change. (Even though Jon Pertwee is the best Doctor EVER, so there DU  ) But I think this would be well beyond my tolerance limits and TVs are still quite expensive to replace if one should happen to put one's foot through one. |
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Kestrel
Chancellery Guard
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Post by Kestrel on May 19, 2024 7:16:12 GMT
I haven't watched it and don't intend to (I said after Goblinmas 'only if the reviews on here are amazing' and no, overall they aren't) but (as an impresario who knew what his audiences wanted would say) 'Corks!' That bad. Change is part of 'Doctor Who' and I've gone with it in real time from 'Terror of the Autons' to 'The Giggle' so I can hardly be accused of being resistant to change. (Even though Jon Pertwee is the best Doctor EVER, so there DU )But I think this would be well beyond my tolerance limits and TVs are still quite expensive to replace if one should happen to put one's foot through one.) I'd still recommend you give 'Space Babies' a shot, even as one of those people who didn't really like it. It's one of those stories that has some really good stuff and some really bad stuff side-by-side. Kinda makes me think of TKO in that regard.... If nothing else, you can always skip ahead past the uncanny CGI baby stuff. Thanks again for the recs! I won’t keep spamming this thread but maybe we could start a Japanese drama thread somewhere else? Sounds good to me, but given how relatively small this community is, maybe something a bit more generalized would might be better? I'm thinking either a "Japanese Media" thread, or an even broader "Non-English Media" thread, as a kind of catch-all. What do you think? |
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Post by timleschild on May 20, 2024 16:10:49 GMT
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Post by whiskeybrewer on May 22, 2024 16:24:45 GMT
The one thing i would have done differently is have the chairs be telepathic, so that the voices come that way. The CGI Baby mouths were off putting to me.
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Post by timleschild on May 22, 2024 16:50:18 GMT
The one thing i would have done differently is have the chairs be telepathic, so that the voices come that way. The CGI Baby mouths were off putting to me. Definitely would have helped. |
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Post by thegreendeath on May 23, 2024 18:31:19 GMT
Sounds good to me, but given how relatively small this community is, maybe something a bit more generalized would might be better? I'm thinking either a "Japanese Media" thread, or an even broader "Non-English Media" thread, as a kind of catch-all. What do you think? That makes sense. Either foreign media or Asian media works. BTW, I watched Twilight Samurai on your rec and loved it! A rare 5 stars for me |
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Kestrel
Chancellery Guard
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Post by Kestrel on May 24, 2024 3:14:04 GMT
Glad you liked it! It's one of my favorites! I'll try to make a thread this weekend, unless you beat me to it. Will have to write up a bunch of recommendations -- cause, boy howdy, I've got a LOT.
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Post by thegreendeath on May 29, 2024 23:14:28 GMT
Glad you liked it! It's one of my favorites! I'll try to make a thread this weekend, unless you beat me to it. Will have to write up a bunch of recommendations -- cause, boy howdy, I've got a LOT. I hope you don’t mind but I started an “Asian Media” thread on the “other shows and movies” board. I was going to wait for you to start one because you’re more active here but then I saw “The Devil’s Temple” today and wanted to talk about it! |
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Kestrel
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,693
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Post by Kestrel on Jun 1, 2024 0:02:22 GMT
Glad you liked it! It's one of my favorites! I'll try to make a thread this weekend, unless you beat me to it. Will have to write up a bunch of recommendations -- cause, boy howdy, I've got a LOT. I hope you don’t mind but I started an “Asian Media” thread on the “other shows and movies” board. I was going to wait for you to start one because you’re more active here but then I saw “The Devil’s Temple” today and wanted to talk about it! Nah, it's fine. My health has been a bit crummy this past week so I've not really found the time to set aside for, well, much of anything yet. |
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Post by thegreendeath on Jun 1, 2024 4:33:04 GMT
I hope you don’t mind but I started an “Asian Media” thread on the “other shows and movies” board. I was going to wait for you to start one because you’re more active here but then I saw “The Devil’s Temple” today and wanted to talk about it! Nah, it's fine. My health has been a bit crummy this past week so I've not really found the time to set aside for, well, much of anything yet. So sorry to hear about your health. Hope you heal soon and can get to more Dr Who, Samurai and the good things in life |
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Post by mrperson on Jun 19, 2024 2:00:01 GMT
I couldn't stand it, as I feel about "The Church on Ruby Road" and "The Devil's Chord."
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Post by Broadway Blue on Jul 3, 2024 13:48:33 GMT
In hindsight I don't think Space Babies was the best episode to launch the new season with.
You call it Season One as a jumping-on point for your new audience on Disney+, and then you start with Space Babies! (Probably the weakest episode of the season.) If Space Babies was people's first episode of Doctor Who that they watched it would hardly be surprising if they never clicked on an episode of Doctor Who again.
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Jul 3, 2024 20:35:42 GMT
I actually liked Space Babbies well enough, but I don't really see it as the first episode. The Church on Ruby Road at least, but really, The Star Beast was the first episode, no matter how they label it. The 8+1+3 even makes for a more traditional series length, and the Specials both introduce Ncuti, and tease the return of Sutekh.
With all the buzz around Tennant and Tate, and RTD returning, AND being the 60th Anniversary, it'd be the much bigger signal booster. Star Beast was silly but with dramatic bits, WBY was the darker more cerebral one, and The Giggle (while the weakest of the 3 IMO) had a good balance. So I don't see Space Babbies being a big turn-off.
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