bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Mar 13, 2016 21:04:36 GMT
In contrast, I thought it the best of the season.  i liked how it basically boiled down to Dorian f*cking things up. |
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 13, 2016 21:11:41 GMT
In contrast, I thought it the best of the season. i liked how it basically boiled down to Dorian f*cking things up. The Heart that Lives Alone is my favorite from S1 but yes I really like this one too because it is interesting to see how Dorian as a character fits into the 21st century. |
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Post by Trace on Mar 13, 2016 21:43:48 GMT
In contrast, I thought it the best of the season. i liked how it basically boiled down to Dorian f*cking things up. I know what you mean. Dorian is a character who doesn't have all the answers--never did--and thus a lot of the time his choices lead to dire consequences. Sometimes those choices are intentionally meant to harm, other times I think he's going in blindly, not knowing what the end result is going to be. I liked it a lot. The Heart that Lives Alone is also my favorite, like kimaysong, but this one is really, really great. |
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 14, 2016 10:19:04 GMT
Starting series 2 now with The Picture of Loretta Delphine
If anyone is joining in late feel free to add your thoughts for any of the series 1 stories.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2016 10:41:19 GMT
Ah, Loretta Delphine... Gary Russell letting rip!
Just dug out an old e-mail from the legendary Paul Spragg who, after hearing a podcast clip for this one out of context, not only added a warning for those 'faint of heart' but also told us, 'I thought I could take anything after watching 7 episodes of Hannibal… :-)'
Miss that man.
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Post by cyberandzinc on Mar 14, 2016 12:19:02 GMT
I like the idea that Loretta is a 'primal force', despite having a personality (I guess). This episode is coarse and vulgar and bloody in a way that is not pretty, like Hannibal is.
I don't see what problem Dorian can possibly have with having no soul. Apparently not only does he function the same way as everyone else, he also gets to defeat loads of villains who are somehow all fixated on souls. Not to mention the, uh, immortality thing.
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 14, 2016 13:36:48 GMT
I like the idea that Loretta is a 'primal force', despite having a personality (I guess). This episode is coarse and vulgar and bloody in a way that is not pretty, like Hannibal is. I don't see what problem Dorian can possibly have with having no soul. Apparently not only does he function the same way as everyone else, he also gets to defeat loads of villains who are somehow all fixated on souls. Not to mention the, uh, immortality thing. Honestly Dorian's soul and what does it really mean for him not have one is one thing I am interested in discussing. But I am not sure if this group discussion is the best place as I fear we can get into spoiler territory. edit: Brought up soul discussion here Note it's the link to the most recent Christmas Special so filled with SPOILERS proceed with caution! |
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Post by omega on Mar 15, 2016 1:17:39 GMT
Ah, Loretta Delphine... Gary Russell letting rip! Just dug out an old e-mail from the legendary Paul Spragg who, after hearing a podcast clip for this one out of context, not only added a warning for those 'faint of heart' but also told us, 'I thought I could take anything after watching 7 episodes of Hannibal… :-)' Miss that man. A Spragg-tastic moment to be sure. |
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Post by Trace on Mar 15, 2016 2:02:55 GMT
Ah...Loretta Delphine....this audio does such a great job of "taking us to" the Florida Everglades. You can almost feel the heat and humidity, and the ever-present threat of gators, insects, pythons and water moccasins is palpable! Kayla is an interesting character and her direct question to Dorian about his relationship with her mother is both humorous and justified! The ending here is a shocker...never saw it coming! And the soul discussion on the other thread is very good. I wish I had come here first so I would have known about the spoilers, but it's my own fault!
I want to give it another listen. I've been finding that each of the Dorian stories are just as great on a second listen a couple nights later!
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 15, 2016 10:10:36 GMT
Ah...Loretta Delphine....this audio does such a great job of "taking us to" the Florida Everglades. You can almost feel the heat and humidity, and the ever-present threat of gators, insects, pythons and water moccasins in palpable! Kayla is an interesting character and her direct question to Dorian about his relationship with her mother is both humorous and justified! The ending here is a shocker...never saw it coming! And the soul discussion on the other thread is very good. I wish I had come here first so I would have known about the spoilers, but it's my own fault! I want to give it another listen. I've been finding that each of the Dorian stories are just as great on a second listen a couple nights later! Oh so you were spoiled? Now I feel bad  There were reasons I brought the discussion about the soul over to that other thread but if people want to discuss what it means for Dorian to not have a soul in relation to the stories up to Loretta Delphine I'd still love to hear everyone's thoughts on the subject. |
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Post by Trace on Mar 16, 2016 4:18:32 GMT
No worries! I accidentally stumbled into the other thread when I saw that it had new posts, before coming to this one and seeing that it contained spoilers. Nothing has been spoiled for me though. I don't mind knowing a bit ahead...it's usually forgotten until I read/hear the story myself. Then, I remember.
As for Dorian not having a soul in the stories we've heard thus far, I can't say that I realized it. If it has been mentioned at all, either by another character or by Dorian himself, I guess I took it in the figurative sense rather than the literal. i.e., "I sold my soul for immortality" being more of a cliche statement about giving up one's humanity than actually being physically devoid of a spirit. I don't think the distinction is clear at this point.
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 16, 2016 11:53:50 GMT
"And I still felt it, deep inside me the sense of loss and longing where a soul should have been"I do love that ending line, so poetic! However it did make me wonder if Dorian could physically feel the loss of his soul or if he was just talking about his emotional loss. And what exactly did he lose by not having a soul? On the surface as cyberandzinc points out not having a soul seems like an advantage. But Dorian obviously doesn't think so. But back to Loretta Delphine this is a 2 hander but we really have 4 characters here Dorian, Kayla, Aisha, and the infamous Loretta Delphine. We only hear about Aisha second hand (Kayla's mother...not sure if I'm spelling her name right) but it's a testament to the story that I feel she is a fully realized character and I am moved by what happened to her. Kayla is 25 years old so I did the math. If Dorian knew her when she was a baby he must have met Aisha in 1987. That would have been right after Heart that Lives Alone. It would make sense that Dorian would leave England then and go far away. Kayla's mother might have been the friend he really needed then. And I like that there was no romance or sex involved in their relationship (although I believe Dorian that Kayla is not his daughter I also do wonder if he does have children out there. We of course know he almost had one) . I also wonder how long he stayed there? Did he just go to visit Aisha & Kayla in Florida when he needed to get away? Speaking of Kayla I wonder in this story how much is her speaking in the early parts and how much is Loretta Delphine pretending to be her. I definitely did not see the twist coming the first time I listened but on relistens I notice Kayla is oddly fascinated by Loretta's crimes. In those moments I wonder if it is Loretta speaking, bragging about what she has done. Although I do like to think that when Kayla is fondly speaking of her mother that is really her. Anyways this story of course highlights the tragedy of Dorian. Not only does he have to kill the daughter of a close friend (one he knew as a child) but he learns the final battle that he fought with Aisha, one that cost Aisha so much didn't end in victory at all. Both Aisha and her daughter were consumed by Loretta. Yes in the end Dorian defeats Loretta Delphine but it almost feels like a hollow victory. Dorian is alone again. And whereas a hero in a story may be able to laugh at the taunts of Loretta Delphine, Dorian acknowledges that they are all true.
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Post by Trace on Mar 17, 2016 1:33:16 GMT
Oh very good observations re: Kayla, Aisha and Loretta. I agree that there are four fully realized characters here!
I also love you quote about the soul.
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Post by elkawho on Mar 17, 2016 3:26:17 GMT
Wonderful observations regarding this story, Kim. This is one of my favorite Dorian releases. It is raw, bloody and vulgar at times, yet it brings up some very touching emotions in Dorian regarding his friendships and how some of the people that he has met affect him. And it shocking. I also didn't see that coming the first time I heard this.
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Post by fingersmash on Mar 19, 2016 14:05:26 GMT
Another wonderful story, after the sort of 'meh' Fallen King of Britain, we're back on point. Even with only two actors, I love just how fleshed out the four characters are. Dorian doesn't just screw his way through life which is the one thing I wasn't a fan of with series one. He has friends, he has loved ones, he is still a human despite everything we see. He has emotions which is why I love this series. Series one is about Dorian's romantic conquests, mostly. Rosina, Toby, and Simon are the highlights of the season and we see that hedonistic side throughout the season, meanwhile we see a more human side in series two, which just ends up making Dorian a more interesting character in the long run. Roll on The Lord of Misrule.
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 21, 2016 2:04:36 GMT
And let's roll on with Lord of Misrule a tale where we are very lucky to get songs sung by both Alex & David Menkin. I listen to the one sung by Alex all the time. There's my confession! Though I have to say my favorite in this story is Gordon Lancaster.  Will add more detailed thoughts sometime later. Looking forward to everyone else's opinions. |
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Post by cyberandzinc on Mar 21, 2016 4:48:28 GMT
That ending. It's hard not to be reminded of that film (just mentioning the name would be a major spoiler for the movie so I might as well not do it). Except Otto hasn't planned for his own demise here. I find it interesting that it's amphetamine, something the Mods 'do' that leads to the death of Otto the Dodgy Rocker.
The soul thing comes up again in this episode. From Otto's description, it certainly sounds like he can 'feel' all things physical (the tea) and psychological (emotions of the people around them). When he says he can't feel Dorian, does he mean he can't physically feel the presence of a soul? Because Dorian is obviously not without emotions. I feel that this recurring theme is constantly shifting from metaphorical to literal and back. Sometimes it's so literal it loses some of the thematic significance that's been built up. Good thing it's only mentioned in this episode. Not too important for the plot, so it doesn't end up as too much of a deus ex machina.
Always nice to see Dorian in the modern world. He's right. Being a pop star does suit him. A lot. The attention. The glamour. Exactly what I'd picture Dorian from the novel to pursue. It was why he wanted to keep his youth and beauty in the first place - so that he'd never have to lose all of that.
A thing with the narration is that it sometimes focuses too much on Dorian's investigation. It can be a good thing, since the pacing is amazing. Discovering what Otto really is is exciting. However, when there isn't much introspection, which is what I particularly like about the narration, I thought it could do with a little more involvement in the story itself, perhaps a little interaction between Lenny and the voices?
There's another thing that confuses me. I get that Otto can't feel Dorian so he's surprised, but why the other Gravediggers? Surely they're not his minions from Beyond the Veil if they've been on the scene for ages? Why are they shocked?
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 25, 2016 11:51:29 GMT
"You're a Parasyte, a leech"
No a Pop Star...
This is a story which I didn't care for at first but it has really grown on me on multiple re-listens. I love the music and well the 60's setting. I also love the mental image of Dorian on a vespa.
It's interesting to compare this story to Fallen King of Britain. In both stories Dorian is in his element but he's having a lot more fun here. Not surprising the 60's is a great decade for Dorian: the free love, the music, the drugs. And yes a pop star really suits Dorian. How could he not enjoy the adulation. But of course it couldn't last.
I didn't really know much about the mods and rockers so my favorite scene might have just been when Dorian was listing off the differences. Simple and effective (but no matter how many times I listen I can't understand the last line of why Dorian ultimately chose the Mods. Some type of cream? I did get that he didn't have a real preference between them unlike Gordon)
Speaking of Gordon....I love him. I love how he is a little dumb, how he doesn't take to Dorian's Narcissism, and how a lot of his tough talk is just that talk. I want to know want happens to him. I imagine he got married, had 3 kids and now drives them to dance and sports practices. Sorry Gordon...probably not the life he dreamed of.
As for the ending it shocked & disturbed me the first time I heard it. Maybe the most disturbing Dorian ending. And yet I feel it is a fitting commentary on over enthusiasm by some fans & groupies. The ending with the waitress in the cafe adds on to that commentary. The fans eat up their favorites and then move on.
I think Dorian actually got the good ending here. He walked off on his own volition. Although I do wonder if Dorian does regret what he had to do. Sounds like he is trying to convince himself. Poor Otto, done in by speed and killed by the love of his fans. But what a final performance.
Finally the music is great here. Really adds to the atmosphere. The songs are included on the Series 1 & 2 box set (along with the songs from the Heart that Lives Alone).
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Post by fingersmash on Mar 26, 2016 12:36:37 GMT
This is a fun one. So full of that delicious 60s aesthetic. I can picture Dorian in a greaser do and a vespa and it makes me smile. I always pictured Dorian having so much fun in the 60s and this is right up his alley. The fact it all ends up as an allegory for fandom and that ending. I had nightmares the first time I listened to it. Although, it can be said Otto didn't deserve it.
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Post by Trace on Mar 27, 2016 1:17:55 GMT
Kimalysong--haven't done my listen yet (will get to it before the night is over) but wanted to explain about the "cream" you heard Dorian speak of. Since I'm a self-professed expert on all things mid-century to mod (NO--not from first-hand experience!!), I'm pretty sure I recall this and I think Dorian spoke of Brylcreem--it's a men's hair styling product, more of a pomade than a hair gel. It hit the scene in the 1920's and was pretty popular right up until the hippie area pretty much put an end to personal hygiene. It was probably worn by the "rockers" because they were the leftover "greasers" from the late 1950's/early 1960's. Dorian and his band were the mods--so probably had longer hairstyles, with no greasy-kid stuff in it, much like the Beatles. I think they probably still make Brylcreem, although I'm not sure. You may have heard their slogan: "A little dab'll do ya!" By the way, I have a powder blue, 1965 Vespa. It's in near-mint condition and a real eye-catcher. I feel VERY mod every time I zip around the city.  |
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