|
Post by bonehead on Apr 18, 2024 20:21:50 GMT
The Twin Dilemma is forty years old! So to celebrate, I've been watching ... Midnight. Still one of the best Doctor Who stories ever written, in my opinion.
#
Just to say, sherlock , I've rerally been enjoying your trip through Series 18 (my favourite). Sad it's coming to an end, but I'm interested to see what you make of Logopolis. At the time, I wondered how anyone could possibly write a story 'big' enough to bring down the indestructable Fourth Doctor? Somehow, they did it! Glad you’ve enjoyed them. Season 18 is definitely one of the more thematically interesting seasons of classic Who. On that note I just watched… LogopolisI’ve seen this a few times now (unlike rest of the season which I hadn’t watched in years), and I just really like it. The atmosphere just really appeals; it’s not dramatics or epic in tone (though the scale of the threat definitely is!), but feels like a funeral. A quiet, long goodbye. It’s a million miles from most regeneration stories because of that but it just works. The reveal in Part 3 that the universe has actually been past its sell-by date for some time lands because of this and all the stories leading up to it. Ultimately the big final battle comes down to a small fight between a man who will grab any opportunity he can to feel powerful, and damn the consequences, and a man who will give anything to stand in his way. The Doctor knew that it was coming, and he could have run upon seeing the Watcher but yet he didn’t. He’s surrounded by people he barely knows, yet he’ll send them to safety leaving himself in heart of danger. Because ultimately that’s who the Fourth Doctor was; the one running towards danger and trying to do the right thing. Lovely! I remember on the DVD commentary, Tom asking Chris Bidmead, "Is it nearly over?" Either he was trying to bruise the writer's fairly sizeable ego or he wasn't impressed with The Doctor and Adric wandering up and down corridors chatting! Either way, I love Logopolis too. The trivialities of Tegan's car issues and The Doctor trying to 'upgrade' the TARDIS lull the viewer into a false sense of low-key security. A trip to Logopolis - which the budget strains to realise - ramps up the tension, with the exciting new incarnation of The Master mucking about with mathematics. But it's The Watcher that unnerved me, shimmering by the rainy roadside, maybe good, maybe evil; a warning to The Doctor, and to the audience too, that there's inevitable danger ahead. Matthew Waterhouse's 'Watchers' story puts flesh on the bones of The Watcher, but the ghost-like figure remains an enigma. So much to love in this weird, foreboding tale - as you say, rather like a funeral. In my view, it's a tremendous finale to my favourite series. Even now, Series 18 remains apart from everything around it!
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Apr 19, 2024 6:55:47 GMT
K9 and Company
Well for completist reasons as I was watching through Season 18, might as well include the Christmas special. It’s entirely forgettable aside from the hilarious title sequence.
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Apr 19, 2024 7:52:31 GMT
K9 and CompanyWell for completist reasons as I was watching through Season 18, might as well include the Christmas special. It’s entirely forgettable aside from the hilarious title sequence. And K-9 in a paper hat.
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Apr 19, 2024 8:10:54 GMT
Image of the Fendahl
It's the 'last ghost of Gothic' as Robert Holmes signs off as script editor and the show was going to move to adventure stories and then comedy, and I wish they had made it a season earlier when I'm sure they would have really 'gone for it' on the horror and got the usual letters of complaint from the usual complainers! The later studio scenes could do with a bit more pace and verve imo, but they must have been technically difficult to pull off in the time available and it's still a fine slice of late Who Gothic, the Doctor and Leela are a great team and the night filming looks excellent.
Best enjoyed with tea and fruit cake. (With or without 'the best china'.)
|
|
|
Post by mrperson on Apr 19, 2024 19:57:54 GMT
Another 12th Doctor episode, Pyramid at the End of the World. It's a little better than what I remembered, but over all The Monks are the low point of series 10. Also stories that hinge on the characters being stupid are a personal petpvee of mine.
I loved Veritas, but the rest....nah
|
|
|
Post by mrperson on Apr 19, 2024 20:00:37 GMT
I need to rewatch that season. Positively loved it.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Apr 22, 2024 18:50:23 GMT
Castrovalva
Well with new 5DAs out might as well carry on my run into Season 19. What an odd story this is; an oddly calm introduction of a new Doctor, which doesn't afford Davison all that much opportunity to seize the moment till the very end. It’s just a pleasant viewing experience be all in all.
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Apr 24, 2024 21:28:20 GMT
The Sunmakers
Robert Holmes' rant about statism and Socialism, in a world where the government had become all business and taxed workers (literally) to death. As written, it was apparently an even more blatant satire on the UK's then Labour government and their high-tax polices, but the production team blurred it for fear of upsetting the powers that be. Which didn't stop them making the Collector and the Gatherer glaringly obvious parodies of the then (Labour) Chancellor Denis Healey, he who set the eye-watering tax levels that Robert Holmes was having a go at. (The peak rate for certain taxes was then 98% - yes, ninety-eight.) Those very bushy eyebrows were the 70s newspaper cartoonists' universal shorthand for Mr. Healey. Put huge eyebrows on anything back then and the nation instantly got the reference! And Gatherer Hade's bluff bonhomie, booming voice, rosy face and (again) prominent eyebrows are also a fairly obvious dig at the Chancellor.
So, the context of the time matters a lot with this story. I've read and heard various people insisting it's all an attack on Capitalism. Not so, these were the days when the state owned large parts of business 'in the national interest' and ran them all at huge losses which someone had to pay for through their taxes - in this case, Robert Holmes!
As a 'Doctor Who' story it's a fun adventure in which some rotten villains get routed by the people, with a bit of encouragement from the Doctor, Leela and K-9. And does it hold the record for the most indoors location filming in any classic-era story? It's a good watch - but as an historical document seen in the proper context, it's a fascinating trip down memory lane for an older fan like me!
|
|
|
Post by timleschild on Apr 24, 2024 21:31:38 GMT
The Edge of Destruction on BBC iPlayer
|
|
|
Post by bonehead on Apr 24, 2024 21:51:31 GMT
The Sunmakers
Robert Holmes' rant about statism and Socialism, in a world where the government had become all business and taxed workers (literally) to death. As written, it was apparently an even more blatant satire on the UK's then Labour government and their high-tax polices, but the production team blurred it for fear of upsetting the powers that be. Which didn't stop them making the Collector and the Gatherer glaringly obvious parodies of the then (Labour) Chancellor Denis Healey, he who set the eye-watering tax levels that Robert Holmes was having a go at. (The peak rate for certain taxes was then 98% - yes, ninety-eight.) Those very bushy eyebrows were the 70s newspaper cartoonists' universal shorthand for Mr. Healey. Put huge eyebrows on anything back then and the nation instantly got the reference! And Gatherer Hade's bluff bonhomie, booming voice, rosy face and (again) prominent eyebrows are also a fairly obvious dig at the Chancellor.
So, the context of the time matters a lot with this story. I've read and heard various people insisting it's all an attack on Capitalism. Not so, these were the days when the state owned large parts of business 'in the national interest' and ran them all at huge losses which someone had to pay for through their taxes - in this case, Robert Holmes!
As a 'Doctor Who' story it's a fun adventure in which some rotten villains get routed by the people, with a bit of encouragement from the Doctor, Leela and K-9. And does it hold the record for the most indoors location filming in any classic-era story? It's a good watch - but as an historical document seen in the proper context, it's a fascinating trip down memory lane for an older fan like me! And for me too. After all these many years, it might even have overtaken Fang Rock as my favourite story from this series. At the time, I remember thinking it (along with The Invisible Enemy) a bit silly (billy), but I love it now because it contrasts its 'heightened' performances and atmospherics with real brutality, like the treatment of Leela and especially, Gatherer Hade's fate (lots of comment on the Blu-Ray extras about how 'they wouldn't get away with that now' - how true, and what a shame!). The Collector is one of the show's great villains/monsters, I think. Henry Woolf really should have got some sort of reward for that performance.
"Liquidation ... liquidassssshunnnn ..."
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Apr 25, 2024 21:18:01 GMT
Underworld
The first episode draws us in very well and the Minyan crew are all good... but then it unfortunately gets rather lost in non-existent tunnels for 2 1/2 episodes among trogs, guards, seers and other characters I'm not interested about enough to know their names even after all these years. I think the main problem for me is that this is the second story in a row about people staging a long-overdue revolt against their evil overlords, and it's simply not a patch on the one we've just seen (if we're watching S15 in order.) Robert Holmes' story has pace, humour and memorably larger-than-life characters, and sadly this one doesn't.
The final 1/2 episode has a bit of 'go' about it again, and K-9 has a good story (as we'd expect with his creators writing it) but the middle of the story really is rather dull.
|
|
shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,677
|
Post by shutupbanks on Apr 25, 2024 22:22:37 GMT
Underworld
The first episode draws us in very well and the Minyan crew are all good... but then it unfortunately gets rather lost in non-existent tunnels for 2 1/2 episodes among trogs, guards, seers and other characters I'm not interested about enough to know their names even after all these years. I think the main problem for me is that this is the second story in a row about people staging a long-overdue revolt against their evil overlords, and it's simply not a patch on the one we've just seen (if we're watching S15 in order.) Robert Holmes' story has pace, humour and memorably larger-than-life characters, and sadly this one doesn't.
The final 1/2 episode has a bit of 'go' about it again, and K-9 has a good story (as we'd expect with his creators writing it) but the middle of the story really is rather dull.
I’m a huge Underworld apologist and I love the beginning and the ending but the middle two are just glacial. A lot of that is the sheer length of the recaps because the episodes overran. Hindsight is 20/20 but I think this would be a pretty good three-part story. Or at least an ok omnibus.
|
|
shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,677
|
Post by shutupbanks on Apr 25, 2024 22:24:03 GMT
The Sunmakers
Robert Holmes' rant about statism and Socialism, in a world where the government had become all business and taxed workers (literally) to death. As written, it was apparently an even more blatant satire on the UK's then Labour government and their high-tax polices, but the production team blurred it for fear of upsetting the powers that be. Which didn't stop them making the Collector and the Gatherer glaringly obvious parodies of the then (Labour) Chancellor Denis Healey, he who set the eye-watering tax levels that Robert Holmes was having a go at. (The peak rate for certain taxes was then 98% - yes, ninety-eight.) Those very bushy eyebrows were the 70s newspaper cartoonists' universal shorthand for Mr. Healey. Put huge eyebrows on anything back then and the nation instantly got the reference! And Gatherer Hade's bluff bonhomie, booming voice, rosy face and (again) prominent eyebrows are also a fairly obvious dig at the Chancellor.
So, the context of the time matters a lot with this story. I've read and heard various people insisting it's all an attack on Capitalism. Not so, these were the days when the state owned large parts of business 'in the national interest' and ran them all at huge losses which someone had to pay for through their taxes - in this case, Robert Holmes!
As a 'Doctor Who' story it's a fun adventure in which some rotten villains get routed by the people, with a bit of encouragement from the Doctor, Leela and K-9. And does it hold the record for the most indoors location filming in any classic-era story? It's a good watch - but as an historical document seen in the proper context, it's a fascinating trip down memory lane for an older fan like me! And for me too. After all these many years, it might even have overtaken Fang Rock as my favourite story from this series. At the time, I remember thinking it (along with The Invisible Enemy) a bit silly (billy), but I love it now because it contrasts its 'heightened' performances and atmospherics with real brutality, like the treatment of Leela and especially, Gatherer Hade's fate (lots of comment on the Blu-Ray extras about how 'they wouldn't get away with that now' - how true, and what a shame!). The Collector is one of the show's great villains/monsters, I think. Henry Woolf really should have got some sort of reward for that performance.
"Liquidation ... liquidassssshunnnn ..."
I thought it quite drab and ordinary on watching as a nipper but it is a gem in Season 15’s crown.
|
|
|
Post by bonehead on Apr 25, 2024 22:50:09 GMT
Is it common knowledge that Imogen-Bickford Smith, who was great in Underworld but had less and less to do as the story went on, was briefly considered to play The Doctor's new companion when Louise Jameson indicated she might be moving on?
'Cos I only found out on the Blu-ray extras!
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Apr 27, 2024 11:35:55 GMT
The Sunmakers
Robert Holmes' rant about statism and Socialism, in a world where the government had become all business and taxed workers (literally) to death. As written, it was apparently an even more blatant satire on the UK's then Labour government and their high-tax polices, but the production team blurred it for fear of upsetting the powers that be. Which didn't stop them making the Collector and the Gatherer glaringly obvious parodies of the then (Labour) Chancellor Denis Healey, he who set the eye-watering tax levels that Robert Holmes was having a go at. (The peak rate for certain taxes was then 98% - yes, ninety-eight.) Those very bushy eyebrows were the 70s newspaper cartoonists' universal shorthand for Mr. Healey. Put huge eyebrows on anything back then and the nation instantly got the reference! And Gatherer Hade's bluff bonhomie, booming voice, rosy face and (again) prominent eyebrows are also a fairly obvious dig at the Chancellor.
So, the context of the time matters a lot with this story. I've read and heard various people insisting it's all an attack on Capitalism. Not so, these were the days when the state owned large parts of business 'in the national interest' and ran them all at huge losses which someone had to pay for through their taxes - in this case, Robert Holmes!
As a 'Doctor Who' story it's a fun adventure in which some rotten villains get routed by the people, with a bit of encouragement from the Doctor, Leela and K-9. And does it hold the record for the most indoors location filming in any classic-era story? It's a good watch - but as an historical document seen in the proper context, it's a fascinating trip down memory lane for an older fan like me! And for me too. After all these many years, it might even have overtaken Fang Rock as my favourite story from this series. At the time, I remember thinking it (along with The Invisible Enemy) a bit silly (billy), but I love it now because it contrasts its 'heightened' performances and atmospherics with real brutality, like the treatment of Leela and especially, Gatherer Hade's fate (lots of comment on the Blu-Ray extras about how 'they wouldn't get away with that now' - how true, and what a shame!). The Collector is one of the show's great villains/monsters, I think. Henry Woolf really should have got some sort of reward for that performance.
"Liquidation ... liquidassssshunnnn ..."
I just re-read your post and only now spotted 'a bit silly (billy)'! And burst out laughing.
(For younger and overseas readers 'What a silly-billy I am!' was the famous catchphrase spoken by the impressionist/comedian Mike Yarwood's version of Denis Healey! His shows were huge on BBC1 in the 70s.)
|
|
|
Post by bonehead on Apr 27, 2024 11:48:39 GMT
And for me too. After all these many years, it might even have overtaken Fang Rock as my favourite story from this series. At the time, I remember thinking it (along with The Invisible Enemy) a bit silly (billy), but I love it now because it contrasts its 'heightened' performances and atmospherics with real brutality, like the treatment of Leela and especially, Gatherer Hade's fate (lots of comment on the Blu-Ray extras about how 'they wouldn't get away with that now' - how true, and what a shame!). The Collector is one of the show's great villains/monsters, I think. Henry Woolf really should have got some sort of reward for that performance.
"Liquidation ... liquidassssshunnnn ..."
I just re-read your post and only now spotted 'a bit silly (billy)'! And burst out laughing.
(For younger and overseas readers 'What a silly-billy I am!' was the famous catchphrase spoken by the impressionist/comedian Mike Yarwood's version of Denis Healey! His shows were huge on BBC1 in the 70s.)
Good old Denis!
|
|
shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,677
|
Post by shutupbanks on Apr 27, 2024 14:45:20 GMT
Is it common knowledge that Imogen-Bickford Smith, who was great in Underworld but had less and less to do as the story went on, was briefly considered to play The Doctor's new companion when Louise Jameson indicated she might be moving on? 'Cos I only found out on the Blu-ray extras! She was a bit of an “it girl” at the time: after Underworld she featured in an episode of Fawlty Towers, Minder and Are You Being Served? I can imagine that since Leela became a companion after guest-starring in a story, any guest character could have been fair game for a new companion in the eyes of the press.
|
|
|
Post by timleschild on Apr 28, 2024 10:56:55 GMT
Enlightenment on BBC iPlayer
|
|
|
Post by bethhigdon on Apr 29, 2024 2:13:44 GMT
Rewatched the Church on Ruby Road . I still think it's loads of fun and I still believe that Mrs Flood is Dodo
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Apr 29, 2024 8:58:35 GMT
The Invasion of Time
Four great episodes with Tom Baker at his most intense and electrifying, a brilliant performance matched by the age-old restraint of John Arnatt's superb Lord Borusa. Knowing the Doctor as we do, it's all most puzzling and fascinating and kept me on the edge of my seat each week as a young fan in the 70s. And of course Leela is right - he does have a plan!
And after those four episodes, a humungous, stonkingly colossal cliff-hanger that was one of the great 'reveals' of classic 'Doctor Who' - and sadly the rest of the story never quite manages to live up to it. It's still good, but the padding in episode 6 is obvious and not what you want from the season finale. It's often said this story ran out of money, but my criticism is that it runs out of script. And Storr should never have looked like a potato-panda (did they not have at least pictures of the original, excellent Sontaran designs?)
But the story picks itself up convincingly at the end and the ideas around the separation of powers and the interplay between the Doctor and Borusa is done very well. Also, Rodan is excellent and surely is the prototype Romana, not that we knew in 1978 who would follow in Leela's stealthy huntress footsteps. She was a splendid Companion and a very hard act to follow.
|
|