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Post by omega on Apr 7, 2016 2:38:14 GMT
I was just spoiled on the DC TV shows thread about the Arrow episode from this week (barely a couple of days since it first aired). This was on a general discussion thread about shows like Arrow, Flash, Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl. The spoiler was posted with no warning, no tags, no preface, just launched straight into a rather massive development. I'd like to request that users take care when it comes to spoilers. Unless a thread is about a specific title, TV show, TV episode, book or movie could users please use spoiler tags for things like major plot twists, character twists like deaths and other details that could affect how users who intend to watch/read what is being discussed when they watch it. Obviously a statute of limitations needs to be worked out in terms of how long until spoilers are fair game and what constitutes a spoiler in an open discussion, but two days clearly does not qualify. On GB there's been some discussion about the UK airdates being later than the US airdates, and how that affects usage of the spoiler tag.
One idea with spoiler tags I have is that the spoilers are prefaced with a non-spoilery mention of the content. Even something like "Spoilers for most recent episode of [enter show here]" or "Spoilers for [/a].
Just to begin the discussion, how do users (I'll call you all Divergents) feel about TV shows that finished five years ago being fair game for minor spoilers, or TV shows and movies that are over ten years old? Surely Classic Who can't need any spoilers, especially since many of us are Doctor Who fans.
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Post by elkawho on Apr 7, 2016 3:09:33 GMT
If there isn't a warning in the title of the thread for spoilers, I try to put any revealing information in spoilers, even if it's old. There is always someone who hasn't heard/seen it.
I was also spoiled about this show and I was able to correct it. I know everyone makes mistakes, but please be more thoughtful everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 6:51:04 GMT
I was just spoiled on the DC TV shows thread about the Arrow episode from this week (barely a couple of days since it first aired). This was on a general discussion thread about shows like Arrow, Flash, Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl. The spoiler was posted with no warning, no tags, no preface, just launched straight into a rather massive development. I'd like to request that users take care when it comes to spoilers. Unless a thread is about a specific title, TV show, TV episode, book or movie could users please use spoiler tags for things like major plot twists, character twists like deaths and other details that could affect how users who intend to watch/read what is being discussed when they watch it. Obviously a statute of limitations needs to be worked out in terms of how long until spoilers are fair game and what constitutes a spoiler in an open discussion, but two days clearly does not qualify. On GB there's been some discussion about the UK airdates being later than the US airdates, and how that affects usage of the spoiler tag. One idea with spoiler tags I have is that the spoilers are prefaced with a non-spoilery mention of the content. Even something like "Spoilers for most recent episode of [enter show here]" or "Spoilers for [/a]. Just to begin the discussion, how do users (I'll call you all Divergents) feel about TV shows that finished five years ago being fair game for minor spoilers, or TV shows and movies that are over ten years old? Surely Classic Who can't need any spoilers, especially since many of us are Doctor Who fans.[/quote] I think discussion of currently airing shows are always going to be tricky, due to differing international airing dates. Maybe have seperate fans for US and (since most fans on here are) predomiantly UK? As for shows and movies within the last five to ten years - I don't think a spoiler warning is a particularly needed. These shows are part of the geeky lexicon and while I understand there are people who haven't seen everything, I think conversaton would be ebbed more then a little bit if spoiler warnings were put put into practice.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 7:30:04 GMT
Also, what exactly qualifies as a spoiler?
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Post by omega on Apr 7, 2016 8:57:12 GMT
Also, what exactly qualifies as a spoiler? Official definition: a description of an important plot development in a television show, film, or book which if previously known may reduce surprise or suspense for a first-time viewer or reader. Basically anything that colors your initial impression of a narrative before you actually read, hear or see it. Serious spoilers usually include major plot twists, character twists like significant backgrounds (previously undisclosed names), allegiances, families, changes in health/condition or death (this is not an exhaustive list), mentions of foreshadowing that becomes important later on etc. When Empire Strikes Back was first released, Vader being Luke's father would be considered a spoiler. Mild spoilers can be general plot beats, mentioning certain characters. These tend to vary from person to person. Some people don't like to see or hear trailers or any promotional material (I've heard of DW fans who turn the episode off just before the Next Time trailer) while others don't mind. As mentioned, recent TV episodes are something of a grey area. Often there's a gap between initial US airdate and UK airdate, let alone other regions of the world. Sometimes you've got people who come late to the show. Should you hold conversations in spoiler tags for someone who wants to come into Arrow unspoiled? Do you regard only the current season with spoilers and spread details about the other seasons freely? If a conversation turns to Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Blake's 7, do spoiler tags apply considering it's been over ten years since the shows ended? With movies do you wait a month or so after it's first been released or when the DVD comes out? A good rule of thumb for the BF audios is if the information is major and can't be gleaned from promotional material for later releases, odds are it gets spoiler tags. It gets trickier when promotion of a release is relevant to a past character twist or revelation. One good example is the Other Doctor in UNIT: Dominion. There have been at least four releases that came out since that treat the identity of the Other Doctor not as a secret, but a big part of the publicity. Nick Briggs even addressed this in a podcast several years ago. The DWM news story announcing UNIT: Dominion stated Klein's fate at the end of Architects of History, a story a couple years old at that point. A big development with Hex in Gods and Monsters was nonchalantly stated in the Vortex feature on Afterlife (Gods and Monsters was September 2012, Afterlife December 2013).
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Post by acousticwolf on Apr 7, 2016 9:09:50 GMT
In my view, there's two sides to this.
1) If something has only been recently released (i.e. within a month or so), I (personally) would expect any plot spoilers to be contained in a spoiler tag - to that end it should be the responsibility of the poster to be aware of this and put spoiler tags around sensitive content. 2) On the other side, if something has been out for a while (and the contents common knowledge), it should be up to the reader to use their judgement whether to read the threads or not. At that point a (spoilers ok) tag in the thread title should suffice. From personal experience, I still haven't seen The Force Awakens (yes I know ...), and because of this I try to avoid any threads that talk about it.
It's common sense really.
Cheers
Tony
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 9:19:56 GMT
Oh, good that all sounds rather reasonable. I once had someone (no one on this forum) accuse me of spoiling an audio had Daleks in it when the title was Enemy of the Daleks. I didn't know how to react at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 10:19:23 GMT
People do get quite strange about Big Finish and spoilers in particular.
The Arrow example was absolutely a spoiler, no questions asked. But Nightshade, Big Finish are constantly publicising what many would class as a spoiler about it, in Vortex, in the cast list, etc. the Now we could have had people saying that saying yesterday's announcement was php The Genesis Chamber was a spoiler. (we didn't, but we did with the tenth doctor)
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Post by mark687 on Apr 7, 2016 10:48:57 GMT
For BF anything they put om the Website Twitter of FB can be discussed as soon as it appears. What's in a podcast not unless a date is given for further details, hence why I referred to the Genesis Chamber mention in the March Podcast when this weeks Podcast said TB news was due this week I also wait till BF publish stories for DWM stuff though I don't mind reading threads about them that are set up for them before that happens.
TV and Films I don't mind at all.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 10:57:58 GMT
Oh, good that all sounds rather reasonable. I once had someone (no one on this forum) accuse me of spoiling an audio had Daleks in it when the title was Enemy of the Daleks. I didn't know how to react at the time. May I direct you to the review of Time of the Daleks in part 2 of Stubagfuls Guide to the 8th Doctor? He Who Moans?
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Post by elkawho on Apr 7, 2016 18:00:01 GMT
May I direct you to the review of Time of the Daleks in part 2 of Stubagfuls Guide to the 8th Doctor? He Who Moans? Yes. Love him.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 23:00:30 GMT
The picture of the snail would have been my second best guess. Truth be told, I think The Time of the Daleks has a lot in common with Evil of the Daleks's Victorian trappings and sheer massacre that was Resurrection of the Daleks as well. Seriously, I think it's a body count that could only be beaten by The Apocaylpse Element. I enjoyed it and it does get better with age, but it feels like a story that desperately, desperately wants to be put on television in a series of gorgeous BBC historical sets.
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Post by Ela on Apr 8, 2016 1:33:36 GMT
In my view, there's two sides to this. 1) If something has only been recently released (i.e. within a month or so), I (personally) would expect any plot spoilers to be contained in a spoiler tag - to that end it should be the responsibility of the poster to be aware of this and put spoiler tags around sensitive content. 2) On the other side, if something has been out for a while (and the contents common knowledge), it should be up to the reader to use their judgement whether to read the threads or not. At that point a (spoilers ok) tag in the thread title should suffice. From personal experience, I still haven't seen The Force Awakens (yes I know ...), and because of this I try to avoid any threads that talk about it. It's common sense really. Cheers Tony Your number 2 item works only if it is a thread about a particular movie, book or BF release, eg, The Force Awakens. If it's a more general discussion thread, there is still a risk of spoiling things for some people. In a general discussion thread, like "What are you listening to today", or "What Who Are You Watching Today" I would suggest people put critical plot points in spoilers, assuming that there are people who may be new to BF and/or Doctor Who and don't know how the stories end. I'm not talking about generalities, but something that would ruin the surprise for certain aspects of the story. I encountered many spoilers in the old forum that ruined the surprise elements of some BF releases for me, because some people assumed that because the release had been out for years, everyone already knew how it ends. And that's what they told me when I complained, which I didn't appreciate. I don't expect spoilers in a general thread. And I avoid threads specifically about stories I don't know yet but plan to listen to/read/watch (as the case may be). "Everyone" doesn't already know.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 1:40:00 GMT
In my view, there's two sides to this. 1) If something has only been recently released (i.e. within a month or so), I (personally) would expect any plot spoilers to be contained in a spoiler tag - to that end it should be the responsibility of the poster to be aware of this and put spoiler tags around sensitive content. 2) On the other side, if something has been out for a while (and the contents common knowledge), it should be up to the reader to use their judgement whether to read the threads or not. At that point a (spoilers ok) tag in the thread title should suffice. From personal experience, I still haven't seen The Force Awakens (yes I know ...), and because of this I try to avoid any threads that talk about it. It's common sense really. Cheers Tony Your number 2 item works only if it is a thread about a particular movie, book or BF release, eg, The Force Awakens. If it's a more general discussion thread, there is still a risk of spoiling things for some people. In a general discussion thread, like "What are you listening to today", or "What Who Are You Watching Today" I would suggest people put critical plot points in spoilers, assuming that there are people who may be new to BF and/or Doctor Who and don't know how the stories end. I'm not talking about generalities, but something that would ruin the surprise for certain aspects of the story. I encountered many spoilers in the old forum that ruined the surprise elements of some BF releases for me, because some people assumed that because the release had been out for years, everyone already knew how it ends. And that's what they told me when I complained, which I didn't appreciate. I don't expect spoilers in a general thread. And I avoid threads specifically about stories I don't know yet but plan to listen to/read/watch (as the case may be). "Everyone" doesn't already know. So, for example, a spoiler to Alien would be: Everyone on the Sulaco dies from the Xenomorph except for Ripley. Transferring that to classic series Doctor Who it'd be that in Earthshock: Adric dies. Right?
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Post by Ela on Apr 8, 2016 1:48:39 GMT
Your number 2 item works only if it is a thread about a particular movie, book or BF release, eg, The Force Awakens. If it's a more general discussion thread, there is still a risk of spoiling things for some people. In a general discussion thread, like "What are you listening to today", or "What Who Are You Watching Today" I would suggest people put critical plot points in spoilers, assuming that there are people who may be new to BF and/or Doctor Who and don't know how the stories end. I'm not talking about generalities, but something that would ruin the surprise for certain aspects of the story. I encountered many spoilers in the old forum that ruined the surprise elements of some BF releases for me, because some people assumed that because the release had been out for years, everyone already knew how it ends. And that's what they told me when I complained, which I didn't appreciate. I don't expect spoilers in a general thread. And I avoid threads specifically about stories I don't know yet but plan to listen to/read/watch (as the case may be). "Everyone" doesn't already know. So, for example, a spoiler to Alien would be: {Spoiler}Everyone on the Sulaco dies from the Xenomorph except for Ripley. Transferring that to classic series Doctor Who it'd be that in Earthshock: {Spoiler}Adric dies. Right? Those are decent examples. Some that affected me were in The Eight Doctor Adventure series I was spoiled for {Spoiler}Lucie's death before I even started the series. It was annoying, but I didn't know what led up to it, so it didn't totally spoil the story for me. But I would have preferred not to know in advance. And it's hard to avoid those types of spoilers when people just drop it in the middle of a discussion where you are not expecting it.
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Post by acousticwolf on Apr 8, 2016 7:40:26 GMT
So, for example, a spoiler to Alien would be: {Spoiler}Everyone on the Sulaco dies from the Xenomorph except for Ripley. Transferring that to classic series Doctor Who it'd be that in Earthshock: {Spoiler}Adric dies. Right? Those are decent examples. Some that affected me were in The Eight Doctor Adventure series I was spoiled for {Spoiler}Lucie's death before I even started the series. It was annoying, but I didn't know what led up to it, so it didn't totally spoil the story for me. But I would have preferred not to know in advance. And it's hard to avoid those types of spoilers when people just drop it in the middle of a discussion where you are not expecting it. It's definitely a minefield isn't it? Cheers Tony
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 10:36:14 GMT
So, for example, a spoiler to Alien would be: {Spoiler}Everyone on the Sulaco dies from the Xenomorph except for Ripley. Transferring that to classic series Doctor Who it'd be that in Earthshock: {Spoiler}Adric dies. Right? Those are decent examples. Some that affected me were in The Eight Doctor Adventure series I was spoiled for {Spoiler}Lucie's death before I even started the series. It was annoying, but I didn't know what led up to it, so it didn't totally spoil the story for me. But I would have preferred not to know in advance. And it's hard to avoid those types of spoilers when people just drop it in the middle of a discussion where you are not expecting it. Yeah, I got spoiled to that Eighth Doctor one. I still haven't got those audios, yet Big Finish themselves publicise the information quite freely now. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
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Post by jasonward on Apr 8, 2016 11:24:24 GMT
Those are decent examples. Some that affected me were in The Eight Doctor Adventure series I was spoiled for {Spoiler}Lucie's death before I even started the series. It was annoying, but I didn't know what led up to it, so it didn't totally spoil the story for me. But I would have preferred not to know in advance. And it's hard to avoid those types of spoilers when people just drop it in the middle of a discussion where you are not expecting it. Yeah, I got spoiled to that Eighth Doctor one. I still haven't got those audios, yet Big Finish themselves publicise the information quite freely now. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk This is part of the problem I have with trying to make a rule about spoilers when whatever it is, is long released. BF podcasts, Vortex letters page and much more that BF produce will "spoil" the story for those that have not yet heard them, it just seems strange to have a rule about spoilers for stuff already in the open from BF and I would find it personally hard to find something a punishable offence of the rules unless the spoiler was malicious.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 11:31:41 GMT
Yeah, I got spoiled to that Eighth Doctor one. I still haven't got those audios, yet Big Finish themselves publicise the information quite freely now. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk This is part of the problem I have with trying to make a rule about spoilers when whatever it is, is long released. BF podcasts, Vortex letters page and much more that BF produce will "spoil" the story for those that have not yet heard them, it just seems strange to have a rule about spoilers for stuff already in the open from BF and I would find it personally hard to find something a punishable offence of the rules unless the spoiler was malicious. I think with all due respect to Ela, this is a forum which discusses Big Finish releases. There is an expectation that contribuitors are up to date with current releases or are prepared to be spoiled for such developments unless they start a thread stating otherwise.
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Post by elkawho on Apr 8, 2016 12:40:01 GMT
The thing is, it takes so little to just put something in spoilers. I try to remember to put all major plot development in spoilers even if the story is old and it's not a major piece of mythology that all of the western world knows (such as Luke Skywalker's paternity). Especially Big Finish. There are new people coming to it all the time. Better safe than sorry.
(Not here nor there, but I spoiled myself on the end of the EDAs by listening to Dark Eyes as my first BF audio.)
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