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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 1:47:40 GMT
I'd just like to add something: I think UK posters should be extra careful about discussing Class. We don't know when Class will be picked up by the international markets, despite it's Who connections, given the nature of the program, it might not been as much of a priority as an adult drama initally (I don't think The Sarah Jane Adventures ever aired in the US and it took more then a year and a half after the series made it's debut in the UK for it debut in Australia) and obviously there will be some overlay between Class and it's parent show come series ten/season thirty-seven. Could any Class discussion be handled in the Class thread?
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Post by omega on Apr 18, 2016 10:09:40 GMT
Interesting case just popped up, a couple of Short Trips read by Rufus Hound as the Monk have been announced. His first story as the Monk The Black Hole hasn't been mentioned in the news article so his role in that story should still be considered a spoiler. The actor has been connected to the character in the article, and the product page for the first of the two Short Trips at the very least heavily implies the connection.
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Post by jasonward on Apr 18, 2016 13:57:14 GMT
For me this is all getting way too complicated, the previous post just demonstrates this, and can and never will be observed by everyone in every circumstance, it will also be just about impossible to enforce unless somehow the mods have complete knowledge about what was aired/released when in what place in the world and what was said by BF in every extras, vortex, press release, tweet, Facebook comment etc etc
A line, a bright line needs to be drawn that everyone can follow and understand without needing encyclopedic knowledge of all things (which even if possible would be odd, since it would obviate the entire need not to disclose spoilers).
But even if we rule everything that could be a spoiler to someone somewhere sometime is a spoiler (which it seems to me some are arguing for), then I'm not sure I want to post here, let alone read the stuttered perhaps contrived conversation it will lead to.
Just for the record, I hate getting spoiled, and I avoid it as much as I can, BUT I take responsibility for a large part of that, just as I would say when I didn't want a sports result not to spoil the enjoyment I would get from watching the recording of it I made earlier, I would not expect the entire world to keep the result secret until everyone who could possibly care had watched the event themselves.
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 18, 2016 14:11:45 GMT
Like I said it's all about common courtesy but if Big Finish themselves spoil something there is nothing we can really do about that (as is the case about the Short Trips reveal of a certain characters identity)
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Post by mark687 on Apr 18, 2016 14:16:32 GMT
Do you know that's such a glaring omission it escaped me!
I think we just might have to make a sticky "This is a Discussion Forum related to BF you may find spoilers for releases read on at your risk" kind of thing
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 14:53:37 GMT
Do you know that's such a glaring omission it escaped me! I think we just might have to make a sticky "This is a Discussion Forum related to BF you may find for spoilers for releases read on at your risk" kind of thing Regards mark687 I think the issue there is spoiler sensitive people will read so little beyond that. It makes it sound like any and every post could be spoilerish. For my money, posters do a good job of not posting too much. Indeed, BF are even posting the reveal from The Black Hole all over Facebook today so clearly they don't mind blowing spoilers for people who aren't up to date.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 18, 2016 15:03:38 GMT
Do you know that's such a glaring omission it escaped me! I think we just might have to make a sticky "This is a Discussion Forum related to BF you may find for spoilers for releases read on at your risk" kind of thing Regards mark687 I think the issue there is spoiler sensitive people will read so little beyond that. It makes it sound like any and every post could be spoilerish. For my money, posters do a good job of not posting too much. Indeed, BF are even posting the reveal from The Black Hole all over Facebook today so clearly they don't mind blowing spoilers for people who aren't up to date. As I said on another thread its becoming a rock and place situation and although some people are calling for a distinct line how on earth do we draw it without a blunt a caution ?
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 15:08:32 GMT
I think BF are far too liberal about their reveals. The most jarring for me is McCoy's "surprise" appearance in two big box-set releases last year - Doom Coalition and The Last Adventure - which they blew in trailers. The boxsets in question were big, marquee releases which would sell anyway. No-ones buying them for McCoy. So why not just leave them as fun easter eggs for fans to discover on their own? It would be like Marvel saying "Guys, here's what happens in the post-credits scene.." before their films come out.
At the same time, I'm with Jason on there being a line and anything over that being just unnecessary policing. The end of Earthshock is not a spoiler 35 years on. If a poster hasn't seen it, sorry, but it's part of Who's pop culture. Do we have to spoiler tag any reference to a story's ending, or any plot reveals just because some haven't seen it years and years later? I think that's completely OTT. ForStar Wars forums do you think people spoiler tag Darth Vader being Luke's dad? No way. I don't think anything need be done here tbh. One poster stupidly revealed something that just went out in a tv show but apart from that I see very little even remotely spoilery outside designated threads.
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Post by Ela on Apr 19, 2016 3:57:16 GMT
Do you know that's such a glaring omission it escaped me! I think we just might have to make a sticky "This is a Discussion Forum related to BF you may find spoilers for releases read on at your risk" kind of thing Regards mark687 I don't like that idea at all. Just use common sense, folks. I think there are some things that are clearly spoilers to those who don't know a story, and other things that are more marginal or hard to decide. Also, some people are more sensitive to spoilers than others. I don't like spoilers, but I have seem people get upset at things that I wouldn't have described as a spoiler, even though it relates to a story I haven't been exposed to yet. We don't all have to make ourselves nuts about this. Use your best judgment and a little common sense, and just use spoiler tags if you accidentally reveal something and someone else suggests it might be a spoiler for some.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 9:50:15 GMT
I think BF are far too liberal about their reveals. The most jarring for me is McCoy's "surprise" appearance in two big box-set releases last year - Doom Coalition and The Last Adventure - which they blew in trailers. The boxsets in question were big, marquee releases which would sell anyway. No-ones buying them for McCoy. So why not just leave them as fun easter eggs for fans to discover on their own? It would be like Marvel saying "Guys, here's what happens in the post-credits scene.." before their films come out. At the same time, I'm with Jason on there being a line and anything over that being just unnecessary policing. The end of Earthshock is not a spoiler 35 years on. If a poster hasn't seen it, sorry, but it's part of Who's pop culture. Do we have to spoiler tag any reference to a story's ending, or any plot reveals just because some haven't seen it years and years later? I think that's completely OTT. ForStar Wars forums do you think people spoiler tag Darth Vader being Luke's dad? No way. I don't think anything need be done here tbh. One poster stupidly revealed something that just went out in a tv show but apart from that I see very little even remotely spoilery outside designated threads. To be fair, McCoy's cameo wasn't blown in the trailers, it was revealed in the initial news article. I think it was a good move on Big Finish's behalf personally for new customers - for many, given the original intent onscreen, the box set could be seen as long walk to the exercise bike and you need that extra push and sparkle, particularly with the baggae of Big Finish's original companions. That McCoy cameo makes all the difference between 'There's so much to catch up on' and 'I NEED TO GET THIS NOW'. Same with Doom Coalition. Intrest in the Eighth Doctor ran hot after The Night of The Doctor and Dark Eyes additional numbering might have been a put off for many a casual or intrested customer. A significant part of Doom Coalition's marketing was that it was a jumping on point - and having McCoy in the trailer - particularly for international fans unused to audio drama - added to that experience - 'the original series continues, the Eighth Doctor's story continues' and adds a feeling of legitimacy, as well as getting the revival audience intrested in the Main Range. It would have been a nice suprise for us long-term customers, I'd agree, but Big Finish have to play to all sorts of audiences.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 18:58:18 GMT
With all respect to you, and I guess Sylv, in 2016 there's no added value teasing his involvement. These were HUGE boxset releases that were going to sell big anyway - much bigger than any McCoy. It added nothing to blow the reveal. Nothing. No-ones laying down 40 quid for 20 seconds of McCoy when he's in 100-odd releases already.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2016 6:53:21 GMT
With all respect to you, and I guess Sylv, in 2016 there's no added value teasing his involvement. These were HUGE boxset releases that were going to sell big anyway - much bigger than any McCoy. It added nothing to blow the reveal. Nothing. No-ones laying down 40 quid for 20 seconds of McCoy when he's in 100-odd releases already. On the flip side, but in the same vein, I don't see knowing about his presence as a spoiler (and I haven't heard this yet). it's just a fact about the story. it's not supposed to be a surprise or a big reveal. That doesn't mean I'd deliberately blurt it out to everyone, but I could accidentally mention it in passing not realising people cared about that level of detail.
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Post by Ela on Apr 25, 2016 15:49:12 GMT
Yeah, I didn't see his presence in the trailer as a spoiler, either. But, as I said above, different people have different thresholds about what they do and don't consider spoilers.
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Post by jasonward on Apr 25, 2016 15:58:01 GMT
I'm not even sure it's a linear progression with people at various points along the way, I expect people to just have different interpretations that make a complex web of what is or is not a spoiler based on when, what, where and by whom the information is disclosed and the persons personal preferences.
This is what I think we need clear rules, ones that can be understood and followed, regardless of anyone's personal ideas and preferences.
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Post by Ela on Apr 25, 2016 16:09:56 GMT
I'm not even sure it's a linear progression with people at various points along the way, I expect people to just have different interpretations that make a complex web of what is or is not a spoiler based on when, what, where and by whom the information is disclosed and the persons personal preferences. This is what I think we need clear rules, ones that can be understood and followed, regardless of anyone's personal ideas and preferences. I don't think it's possible to have rules that will satisfy everyone. And I'm totally against rules that would delineate a spoiler by how old a story is and/or how long the story has been out there and discussed. Sorry, that doesn't pass the spoiler/not spoiler test for me. That's why I'm advocating for just using common sense, as I've stated in numerous posts in this thread. If it's a major plot point, use spoiler tags, whether the story is 50 years old or 5 minutes old.
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Post by jasonward on Apr 25, 2016 16:14:22 GMT
Darth Vader being Lukes father is about as major a plot point as you get, but it would in my mind, at the very least be silly to make people post that in spoiler tags, I really don't see how a common sense approach works, your common sense just isn't the same as mine.
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 25, 2016 16:21:10 GMT
Darth Vader being Lukes father is about as major a plot point as you get, but it would in my mind, at the very least be silly to make people post that in spoiler tags, I really don't see how a common sense approach works, your common sense just isn't the same as mine. That's a pretty bad example. That major plot point is now part of pop culture. I agree with Ela common sense and common courtesy. i think people should have common sense to know when to spoiler tag big reveals that they were surprised about. Since I am sure no one would be surprised by Luke I am your father because even people who don't watch Star Wars know that it would only take common sense to know that you don't need to spoiler tag that. Although if someone wanted to well that is their prerogative.
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Post by jasonward on Apr 25, 2016 16:33:02 GMT
But that is my point... "What is?" you ask.
"bad example" and "Although if someone wanted to well that is their prerogative"
Sure I agree it's now pop culture, but it doesn't change the fact that someone somewhere, as you acknowledge might think it important to be dealt with, with spoiler tags, and whilst were asking people to use judgement and common sense, who are we as mods to second guess their "judgement and common sense", who is going to judge if something is pop culture and ok to disclose, or not disclose? What if a post is reported as being a spoiler and I say "yes it is, throw the book at them" and you say "no it isn't, dismiss the report".
I find it very difficult to apply some form of punishment to people when the rule they are judged to have transgressed is one where such wide and varied opinions of what the rule means exist. Even if I disagree with them, and think it a clear transgression, I have to take into account that they may genuinely believe it was not, and with no hard and fast rules I'm left wondering why my opinion appears to be more important than theirs.
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 25, 2016 16:54:36 GMT
But that is my point... "What is?" you ask. "bad example" and "Although if someone wanted to well that is their prerogative" Sure I agree it's now pop culture, but it doesn't change the fact that someone somewhere, as you acknowledge might think it important to be dealt with, with spoiler tags, and whilst were asking people to use judgement and common sense, who are we as mods to second guess their "judgement and common sense", who is going to judge if something is pop culture and ok to disclose, or not disclose? What if a post is reported as being a spoiler and I say "yes it is, throw the book at them" and you say "no it isn't, dismiss the report". I find it very difficult to apply some form of punishment to people when the rule they are judged to have transgressed is one where such wide and varied opinions of what the rule means exist. Even if I disagree with them, and think it a clear transgression, I have to take into account that they may genuinely believe it was not, and with no hard and fast rules I'm left wondering why my opinion appears to be more important than theirs. Who said anything about punishing anyone because they don't use spoiler tags. We are all adults that is why I think we can agree to use common courtesy. I personally don't want to police spoilers especially ones that are completely unrelated to Big Finish & Doctor Who. And I don't know about you but I don't want to decide this is okay because it was from a year or 6 months ago, etc. I mean I think if it is a bit different for Big Finish most recent releases when we clearly have a designated Spoiler thread or even the newest Doctor Who episode but other than that I think we don't really need a spoiler policy. Edit: and besides the fact if something is older than our designated spoiler policy it can still spoil someone and I don't think it's fair to say well that's okay because it's from a year ago too bad for you.
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Post by acousticwolf on Apr 25, 2016 17:54:26 GMT
I mean I think if it is a bit different for Big Finish most recent releases when we clearly have a designated Spoiler thread or even the newest Doctor Who episode but other than that I think we don't really need a spoiler policy. Agreed. Everything else should be common sense and common courtesy. I also think if we (mods/admins) want to debate this any further, we should probably move it into the Moderator thread for discussion. Cheers Tony
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