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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 13, 2017 20:34:54 GMT
The three groups of conservatives, define. Since taking office, Trump has attacked federal judges, insulted foreign leaders, berated the press, lied endlessly, drawn a moral equivalence between the United States and Vladimir Putin’s Russia, sown chaos at America’s airports, led European leaders to rethink the trans-Atlantic alliance, and used the presidency to enrich himself. Where exactly does National Review see the evidence of emotional, intellectual and moral growth?
It’s not deranged to worry that Trump may undermine liberal democracy. It’s deranged to think that leftist hyperbole constitutes the greater threat. Unfortunately, that form of Trump Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at National Review. And it helps explain why Republicans across Washington are enabling Trump’s assault on the institutions designed to restrain his power and uphold the rule of law.
It is inconvenient for National Review that the individual in government who now most threatens the principles it holds dear is not a liberal, but a president that most conservatives support. But evading that reality doesn’t make it any less true.It is probably telling that conservatives such as Brooks & Frum are the ones whose opinions I can not only stomach but also agree with.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 14, 2017 2:19:17 GMT
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 14, 2017 10:27:36 GMT
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 14, 2017 23:04:51 GMT
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Post by jasonward on Feb 15, 2017 0:28:46 GMT
Trumps Teflon coating has some wear in it yet before he in trouble.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 15, 2017 1:18:53 GMT
Trumps Teflon coating has some wear in it yet before he in trouble. I'm not sure how much Teflon Trump actually has but no I don't think Trump will be gone tomorrow or next week. Still, we have never seen a National Security Advisor forced out a month into a new administration either. It's the Trump WH, so all bets are off.
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Post by icecreamdf on Feb 15, 2017 1:30:40 GMT
Trumps Teflon coating has some wear in it yet before he in trouble. I'm not sure how much Teflon Trump actually has but no I don't think Trump will be gone tomorrow or next week. Still, we have never seen a National Security Advisor forced out a month into a new administration either. It's the Trump WH, so all bets are off. The thing is, we've never seen most of the crazy scandals that followed Trump during the campaign before, and yet he still won. At this point, I'm starting to believe his boast that he could get away with shooting someone of Fifth Avenue.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 15, 2017 2:07:26 GMT
I get that. I still think it is a case of Trump providing longer & longer stretches of rope to hang himself. Let's see how much spine these several investigations in the Russia matter display.
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Post by icecreamdf on Feb 15, 2017 2:13:07 GMT
I get that. I still think it is a case of Trump providing longer & longer stretches of rope to hang himself. Let's see how much spine these several investigations in the Russia matter display. I really hope you're right. I honestly thought he was done after that Access Hollywood tape, so at this point I don't know what it would take to bring him down.
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Post by jasonward on Feb 15, 2017 3:14:28 GMT
I'm not sure how much Teflon Trump actually has but no I don't think Trump will be gone tomorrow or next week. Still, we have never seen a National Security Advisor forced out a month into a new administration either. It's the Trump WH, so all bets are off. The thing is, we've never seen most of the crazy scandals that followed Trump during the campaign before, and yet he still won. At this point, I'm starting to believe his boast that he could get away with shooting someone of Fifth Avenue. I think your both right, but this is like, in Doctor Who terms a time anomaly, the situation is both in flux of unknown scope and heading towards a singularity at head spinning speed, but the flux and the speed make it impossible to predict which of the googolplex of singularities we will end up at or how long it will take. The singularity that we arrive at though could be anything, it will be spectacular for sure, perhaps unimaginable before it happens, but the normal rules do not apply, but when The Whitehouse says that's the Presidents powers "will not be questioned" and large sections of the populations still support him you got to realise that the chance that in the next 6 months, some form of martial law being imposed in some area of the mainland US has a likelihood pretty much equal to the likelihood that he will be impeached in the same 6 months. Prior to Trump either idea was so far out there as to be either a joke or unthinkable (that either event could happen within 6 months of inauguration), but now... would you bet your home, your car, your job on either of those outcomes not coming true? And are you sure you haven't already bet your home, your car, your job on either of those outcomes? I'm not saying either is going to happen, or that I can see a clear path to either, but the flux, the speed, we could crash land any where any time, however bizarre, odd, frightening or just pure stunning that is. And where we crash land could leave huge numbers of people very frightened, disillusioned, angry...
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Feb 15, 2017 9:13:48 GMT
I'm not sure how much Teflon Trump actually has but no I don't think Trump will be gone tomorrow or next week. Still, we have never seen a National Security Advisor forced out a month into a new administration either. It's the Trump WH, so all bets are off. The thing is, we've never seen most of the crazy scandals that followed Trump during the campaign before, and yet he still won. At this point, I'm starting to believe his boast that he could get away with shooting someone of Fifth Avenue. And where we crash land could leave huge numbers of people very frightened, disillusioned, angry... That statement right there, is why Trump was elected to start with. A huge number of people were very frightened, disillusioned and angry. And he just wasn't 4 more years of the exact same thing.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 15, 2017 20:48:19 GMT
I was going to predict that the Whiner-In-Chief would probably take to Twitter to have a tantrum about his bad, very not good week. And he beat me to it. This is an important time for Trump to show that he’s capable of leading, taking responsibility, and being in control. This morning was an unsettling reminder that he’s actually unable to do any of these things.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Feb 15, 2017 22:05:58 GMT
I was going to predict that the Whiner-In-Chief would probably take to Twitter to have a tantrum about his bad, very not good week. And he beat me to it. This is an important time for Trump to show that he’s capable of leading, taking responsibility, and being in control. This morning was an unsettling reminder that he’s actually unable to do any of these things. Nathan, a request. You can disrespect his ethics, his choices his beliefs and a lot of other things. But disrespecting the office, is pushing it a bit far imo. I don't think you meant to. But whiner in chief, is just a bit to far for these forums. Whiner in charge would have been ok. Or the head whiner. Or president trump whine n stein. He is the commander in chief, he is the president. Don't take and twist those words that define the office around. Do that on the political sites. It doesn't belong on here. If u want to add to them that's fine but don't corrupt the office, even if you don't like the man.
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Post by icecreamdf on Feb 15, 2017 22:16:33 GMT
I was going to predict that the Whiner-In-Chief would probably take to Twitter to have a tantrum about his bad, very not good week. And he beat me to it. This is an important time for Trump to show that he’s capable of leading, taking responsibility, and being in control. This morning was an unsettling reminder that he’s actually unable to do any of these things. Nathan, a request. You can disrespect his ethics, his choices his beliefs and a lot of other things. But disrespecting the office, is pushing it a bit far imo. I don't think you meant to. But whiner in chief, is just a bit to far for these forums. Whiner in charge would have been ok. Or the head whiner. Or president trump whine n stein. He is the commander in chief, he is the president. Don't take and twist those words that define the office around. Do that on the political sites. It doesn't belong on here. If u want to add to them that's fine but don't corrupt the office, even if you don't like the man. Insult-in-chief is a very common way to insult the president, no matter who is in charge. It is making fun of the man, not the office. Besides, I'm sure the office can take a bit of name calling without its feelings getting hurt.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 15, 2017 22:20:17 GMT
I would argue your irritation about punctuation choice would be better directed at the person who is finding new ways to demean the office on a daily basis. As the holder of the highest office in the land and seeing as he uses Twitter to whine & complain, I have little issue with referring to him as the Whiner-In-Chief.
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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 16, 2017 1:18:26 GMT
And where we crash land could leave huge numbers of people very frightened, disillusioned, angry... That statement right there, is why Trump was elected to start with. A huge number of people were very frightened, disillusioned and angry. And he just wasn't 4 more years of the exact same thing. We had a lot of people frightened, disillusioned and angry over 8 years of prosperity and progress and afraid we'd get 4 more years of the exact same thing? Was this somebody besides the "Tea Party" who got themselves all worked up with a little help from the media, and convinced themselves we had an illegal alien for president? The only criticisms I've been able to come up with personally of that very scary president before Trump are seemingly too much continuation of some of the foreign (military) policy of his predecessor, and that simply providing universal health coverage isn't necessarily the same thing as providing an assurance of quality care. Then again, I don't think it's his fault if the medical industry is (in my opinion) a colossal mess, so I can really only consider that a step in the right direction. I might resent anything that was mandatory about Obamacare for anyone, but that's probably about as useful as my being resentful of the mandatory nature of a driver's license. Likewise, I'm still confused over any attraction Trump has for his supporters. What does a successful businessman have to offer ordinary, decent, hard-working folks with "dirt under their fingernails" who may have got it there from slaving away to make guys like Trump richer, guys who will likely turn around and try to weasel out of assuming a proportionate responsibility for the tax burden? I keep trying to think Trump voters must have thought they were voting for Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? and forgot they were more likely voting for You're Fired! - I personally don't think it's very likely that Trump got where he is by giving a damn about "the little guy" and I'm not sure he's about to start now. (I will be only too happy to have him make me eat those words on a silver platter...)
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 16, 2017 2:31:24 GMT
That statement right there, is why Trump was elected to start with. A huge number of people were very frightened, disillusioned and angry. And he just wasn't 4 more years of the exact same thing. We had a lot of people frightened, disillusioned and angry over 8 years of prosperity and progress and afraid we'd get 4 more years of the exact same thing? Was this somebody besides the "Tea Party" who got themselves all worked up with a little help from the media, and convinced themselves we had an illegal alien for president? The only criticisms I've been able to come up with personally of that very scary president before Trump are seemingly too much continuation of some of the foreign (military) policy of his predecessor, and that simply providing universal health coverage isn't necessarily the same thing as providing an assurance of quality care. Then again, I don't think it's his fault if the medical industry is (in my opinion) a colossal mess, so I can really only consider that a step in the right direction. I might resent anything that was mandatory about Obamacare for anyone, but that's probably about as useful as my being resentful of the mandatory nature of a driver's license. Likewise, I'm still confused over any attraction Trump has for his supporters. What does a successful businessman have to offer ordinary, decent, hard-working folks with "dirt under their fingernails" who may have got it there from slaving away to make guys like Trump richer, guys who will likely turn around and try to weasel out of assuming a proportionate responsibility for the tax burden? I keep trying to think Trump voters must have thought they were voting for Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? and forgot they were more likely voting for You're Fired! - I personally don't think it's very likely that Trump got where he is by giving a damn about "the little guy" and I'm not sure he's about to start now. (I will be only too happy to have him make me eat those words on a silver platter...) It is a point I've been making for the better part of a decade now. If you make under 150K a year and if your primary concerns are economic in nature & if you vote GOP, you are voting against your own best interests. The Democratic Party is far from perfect but it is also the party that grows the economy, is the party of inclusion and expanding rights and freedoms. It is also the party which actually deals with reality for how it is rather than how they want it to be. Having a political party which acknowledges science should not even be a partisan issue but here we sit.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Feb 16, 2017 9:04:02 GMT
We had a lot of people frightened, disillusioned and angry over 8 years of prosperity and progress and afraid we'd get 4 more years of the exact same thing? Was this somebody besides the "Tea Party" who got themselves all worked up with a little help from the media, and convinced themselves we had an illegal alien for president? The only criticisms I've been able to come up with personally of that very scary president before Trump are seemingly too much continuation of some of the foreign (military) policy of his predecessor, and that simply providing universal health coverage isn't necessarily the same thing as providing an assurance of quality care. Then again, I don't think it's his fault if the medical industry is (in my opinion) a colossal mess, so I can really only consider that a step in the right direction. I might resent anything that was mandatory about Obamacare for anyone, but that's probably about as useful as my being resentful of the mandatory nature of a driver's license. Likewise, I'm still confused over any attraction Trump has for his supporters. What does a successful businessman have to offer ordinary, decent, hard-working folks with "dirt under their fingernails" who may have got it there from slaving away to make guys like Trump richer, guys who will likely turn around and try to weasel out of assuming a proportionate responsibility for the tax burden? I keep trying to think Trump voters must have thought they were voting for Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? and forgot they were more likely voting for You're Fired! - I personally don't think it's very likely that Trump got where he is by giving a damn about "the little guy" and I'm not sure he's about to start now. (I will be only too happy to have him make me eat those words on a silver platter...) It is a point I've been making for the better part of a decade now. If you make under 150K a year and if your primary concerns are economic in nature & if you vote GOP, you are voting against your own best interests. The Democratic Party is far from perfect but it is also the party that grows the economy, is the party of inclusion and expanding rights and freedoms. It is also the party which actually deals with reality for how it is rather than how they want it to be. Having a political party which acknowledges science should not even be a partisan issue but here we sit. Thanks, I needed a good laugh! And that was funny! The Democratic Party wants more of my money, to give away to some who don't deserve it, to hire more federal employees who don't do anything all day long, and to make sure people who made bad decisions in their life have a place to live, and food to eat, while they let veterans live on the street. The Democratic Party wants to curtail freedoms, unless it is in their best interest. If they had their way, I wouldn't own a gun. The Democratic Party doesn't care one bit if a pervert follows a little girl into the bathroom, as long as transgender folks can use whichever one they feel like using, heaven forbid, they feel uncomfortable takin a leak in a public restroom, like anyone enjoys doin that. The Democratic Party has no problem whatsoever killin an unborn fetus, hell, I don't either, but they have no problem selling that fetus to use to experiment on, without even askin permission from the mother. If you believe what you wrote, then you need to get a job, and start payin taxes, and watch as your democratic party raises minimum wage, and when you start paying 4 bucks for a loaf of bread at Wal-Mart, maybe you might understand why trickle down economics will always apply. I hope they give a federal wage hike, with my job, i'll get a big bump in pay, thanks to inflation, and my house payment is locked in. My home value goes up, and in a red state, my taxes wont. That is the Democratic Party. The only part of that statement you got right, was the Democratic Party is far from perfect. You just didn't explain how far.
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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 16, 2017 10:17:17 GMT
I see, Trump is saving us from anarchy and moral turpitude? I would defend your right to believe that, too, but you're not going to get me to forget how bread is supposed to have reached $4 a loaf. I believe that would be Bush Jr., it was related to the soaring cost of petroleum used in production and transport of foodstuffs, and that it is supposed to have come about due to shaken confidence in petroleum investment plus cost of frequent rebuilding of oil infrastructure once our attempt at occupation of Iraq resulted in near daily attacks on pipelines. None of that cheap gasoline that we were all promised would result from the "favor" we were doing the Iraqi people ever "trickled down" to my level of the totem pole, thanks.
FWIW, for as far as I lean left, I'm not a believer in abortions or stem cell research - in fact, I thought we'd established the presence of alternative cell lines to culture from adults that would make that unnecessary, but that's part of what I think is messed up about the medical industry is some of the things they're willing to resort to in the name of medicine. (I'm not really fond of using animals in medical research, either, especially in cases where they have different biology that keeps the results from being very meaningful to humans).
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Post by jasonward on Feb 16, 2017 10:40:05 GMT
That statement right there, is why Trump was elected to start with. A huge number of people were very frightened, disillusioned and angry. And he just wasn't 4 more years of the exact same thing. We had a lot of people frightened, disillusioned and angry over 8 years of prosperity and progress and afraid we'd get 4 more years of the exact same thing? Was this somebody besides the "Tea Party" who got themselves all worked up with a little help from the media, and convinced themselves we had an illegal alien for president? The only criticisms I've been able to come up with personally of that very scary president before Trump are seemingly too much continuation of some of the foreign (military) policy of his predecessor, and that simply providing universal health coverage isn't necessarily the same thing as providing an assurance of quality care. Then again, I don't think it's his fault if the medical industry is (in my opinion) a colossal mess, so I can really only consider that a step in the right direction. I might resent anything that was mandatory about Obamacare for anyone, but that's probably about as useful as my being resentful of the mandatory nature of a driver's license. Likewise, I'm still confused over any attraction Trump has for his supporters. What does a successful businessman have to offer ordinary, decent, hard-working folks with "dirt under their fingernails" who may have got it there from slaving away to make guys like Trump richer, guys who will likely turn around and try to weasel out of assuming a proportionate responsibility for the tax burden? I keep trying to think Trump voters must have thought they were voting for Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? and forgot they were more likely voting for You're Fired! - I personally don't think it's very likely that Trump got where he is by giving a damn about "the little guy" and I'm not sure he's about to start now. (I will be only too happy to have him make me eat those words on a silver platter...) If you want to get in the world of people who voted for Trump, you have to stop looking at your own feelings, logic indeed everything your familiar with. The danger of the current situation has arisen because the world you and people like you (and me) occupy has become as odd and illogical to Trump supporters as their world is to you. I'm an atheist, and my personal views and what seems perfectly logical views on people of faith would if I let them leave me wondering why and how a serious amount of the worlds population are deluded. But despite my views and the logic of the situation I see, if I was to actually go around in the world assuming that a great many people I met were poor deluded individuals, at best I would come across as patronising, at worst I'd come across as a superior prick, and if my views got into the ascendancy, become the political norm then people of faith would start to feel frustrated, angry and frightened. Right now, this is where the political right of America is vs the political left, neither gets nor understand the other world, its not about how best to deal with a situation, it's that one side doesn't see a situation to deal with, whilst the other side thinks it's a pressing emergency. People (leaders) on both sides need to put aside their knowledge, feelings and logic, stop appealing only to their core audience and go get a dose of the reality from the other side, it's that or start killing until one side becomes truly dominate.
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