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Post by nucleusofswarm on Mar 18, 2017 0:53:39 GMT
Vigilatism, revenge, retribution, singular and/or communal justice etc. etc. Discuss.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2017 2:12:31 GMT
No. Especially if you are being driven exclusively by an emotional response to the situation. That is precisely why we have a police force to begin with.
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Post by relativetime on Mar 18, 2017 2:29:23 GMT
I'll add my voice to the "no" crowd. There are far better ways to achieve justice in your community than resorting to vigilantism or any other kind of violent emotional response. Some better responses might be peaceful protest, getting involved in the local government, or even educating yourself in law (which is more longterm, granted, but definitely no less useful).
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Post by omega on Mar 18, 2017 3:45:07 GMT
I'm another no. As individuals we don't hold the authority or the right to decide when and how people should be punished regardless of their actions. If you act on your own there can be a lack of accountability which doesn't help your case. This has been explored in Arrow, where despite being the protagonist and having good intentions Oliver's alter ego doesn't have a good relationship with the SCPD.
Question to the OP, what are your thoughts on the matter?
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Mar 18, 2017 4:28:22 GMT
That is an individual case by case question. I don't condone it, but I have done it. Working thru the law is preferable, but the system is broken, and, no, the system does not work for everyone. Now, revenge is a growing dish. What I mean is anyone can get revenge for something, but that person who 'got dealt with' let's say, probably has family, friends, etc., some of whom might want revenge for that person. It grows, exponentially. (Example: I beat the crap out of someone, they show back up with a couple of friends and I beat the crap out of 3 of em. , all 3 of those plus a few more ambush me, I don't beat anymore, I shoot, and they die.)That's just me bein facetious. Ive never shot anyone who didnt deserve it... but I have been in a scrap or 2... My advice for anyone who finds themselves in a 'desperate' situation. Talk. Keep talking, ive talked myself out of more fights than ive actually had fights. And no one really knows what they will do, until they find themselves in a life or death situation.
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Post by Timelord007 on Mar 18, 2017 8:15:18 GMT
I'm a man of peace nowadays & i find violence solves nothing, i would never go out of my way to harm another person & always try & use words to diffuse any issues, but if someone physically attacks me or any of my close family, then all bets are off.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Mar 18, 2017 9:00:45 GMT
I'm another no. As individuals we don't hold the authority or the right to decide when and how people should be punished regardless of their actions. If you act on your own there can be a lack of accountability which doesn't help your case. This has been explored in Arrow, where despite being the protagonist and having good intentions Oliver's alter ego doesn't have a good relationship with the SCPD. Question to the OP, what are your thoughts on the matter? The No camp, but wanted to see how others felt.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Mar 18, 2017 12:55:12 GMT
No, because what if you have been given the wrong facts, the wrong people get hurt, then you go to prison
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Post by theotherjosh on Mar 18, 2017 14:58:10 GMT
This happened in the town where I now live. It was about twenty years back, so I'm a bit light on specifics, but an address was published as part of a sex offender registry, some people broke in looking for a little vigilante justice, but got a friend of the roommate who was sleeping on the couch. I can't remember, but I think the person they were looking for didn't even live there anymore.
We live in an imperfect world. Sometimes the guilty go free. But compounding their crime with one or your own is not the solution.
William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Mar 21, 2017 19:05:31 GMT
Only if you are a mutant or a billionaire with dead parents... I'm looking at you wayne/stark.
Otherwise
No.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Mar 22, 2017 6:31:52 GMT
Only if you are a mutant or a billionaire with dead parents... I'm looking at you wayne/stark. Otherwise No. I prefer Frank Castle's form of justice...the bad guys never come back...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 8:09:53 GMT
Only if you are a mutant or a billionaire with dead parents... I'm looking at you wayne/stark. Otherwise No. Talking in a fictional capacity, a very good example of a character who you could easily mistake for a vigilante is Robert McCall from The Equalizer. He is not the one to instigate the altercations, people come to him when a dire situation emerges and they or their families are being threatened by rapists, stalkers, politicians, gangbangers, domestic abusers, garden variety psychotics and interestingly enough would-be do-gooders. There are stories here and there that address the concept of vigilante justice head on and point out that Robert often liaises with the police and turns perpetrators who surrender over to the judicial system for trial, so he himself is not a typical vigilante and does not identify as such. He is not above the law. He hates the violence of his work, he hates killing people as much as John Drake does and it's interesting to see him go up against figures you could label as typical vigilantes. One episode has him deal with a neighbourhood watch group that accidentally kill a black kid because they believe he was responsible for a robbery and cover up their mistake by blaming it on him. Another has McCall shock a man called Victor Koslow out of his long path of murder by reminding him of the night that started him killing perpetrators that fell through the system. It destroyed what was left of his life. Likewise, he has to talk a man out of shooting an innocent who he believes was responsible for attacking his wife on the subway because he won't go home to face her. Robert himself wouldn't be doing what he does if he hadn't spent all those years at the Company, he does it as a means of atoning and talks many people out of following his lifestyle. He's a great character (in no small part thanks to Edward Woodward), but you wouldn't ever want to do what he does in real life.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Mar 24, 2017 3:10:56 GMT
No because life isn't Death Wish and the wild west a long time ago.
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Post by icecreamdf on Mar 25, 2017 2:20:00 GMT
Taking the law into your own hands is how you end up with George Zimmerman.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Mar 25, 2017 6:44:47 GMT
It's hard to kill someone. I'm not sure anyone on here could do it in a one on one, physical, close quarters, combat, look them in the eye, situation. I've never had too. Killing someone from a distance, in a war environment, drives soldiers insane, some over a period of time, others almost instantly. It does change you. Knowing that you have ended a life, killed a man who might have been a father, and for sure was a son, could have been a husband, could have been a brother.
You spend a lot, and I mean, a lot of time, inside your own head, wondering what that man was. Who he was, what he enjoyed, who he loved, and on the good days, you wonder who he hated, was he a nice man, did he kill anyone before you killed him, and you always wonder if you did the right thing, war doesn't figure into your thinking, war is just a word to most folks, the only movie ever to even come close is Full Metal Jacket, the rest of them are jokes.
If someone forced me to kill them by breakin into my home, I could, and I would, without any hesitation, that would be a lot easier than killing someone that you know nothing about except that they are wearing the wrong uniform and fighting for the other side. The first thing I learned, was that it's not a soldier's job to give their life for their country, it's a soldiers job to make the other fella give his life for his country. That strikes home hard every 25th of March.
Growing up, Sgt. Alvin C. York was my hero, he was a man who fought, though, he didn't want to fight, but sometimes, it's either fight or give up all you believe in, and that's what he ended up doing. I'm proud to say he grew up, just up the road from where I live. The only man I consider a hero, that has been born in my lifetime is Pat Tillman, a man who gave up millions and fame and fortune, in the NFL, to defend everything that he believed in. No happy ending for Tillman, he was killed by friendly fire.
Yall can forgive me, or not, ive been drinkin since 6 last night, and it's 2 now, and I still got plenty of beer left. Cant get drunk, never can today, Ive forgotten my wedding anniversary before, my birthday, my wife's birthday, even some of my kids birthdays, just because I get my days mixed up, lose track of time, but I always know when the 25 of March is comin. My wife and my kids know to leave me alone, don't call, don't text, don't come by, cause March 25th is my own personal hell. One thing the beer does do well though, it shortens the day.
No decent person can kill somebody and not be changed, be affected in ways that change their life from that point on. It's not something that you forget bout in a month, or a year, or a decade. There's an episode of Mash, that shows a pilot, who's job is just to drop his payload and go home for the day, killing who the hell knows, and he sees some of the effects of what he has done, cause he never really gave it any thought, until he faced the people, and kids he had been bombing. That would be easier, than pulling a trigger and ending a man's life.
Knowing that it's you or them, that doesn't help either. That just makes it to where you can actually function as a human being, and hold a job, and try to keep these angers and horrors locked away for another day. Talkin to a psychiatrist helps, I guess, keeps things from being bottled up, but the drugs they give you, they don't help anything at all, cept they got me hooked on paxil back in the 90's, bad enough to where I had to ween myself off them a little at a time, with no damn help from the doctors.
I'm not bragging, cause its sure as hell nothing to brag bout, but I figure I'm the only person on this thread to ever take a life, to ever kill a man. I may be the only person on this site, for all I know I may be the only doctor who fan to ever be unfortunate enough to end somebodys existence.
I get miserable today, knowing that I'm alive to see my kids grow up, to see my grandkids, you say, why does that make you miserable, cause i took away something that God gave, i don't know what i took away, taking a life seems so simple, until you think about it. Didi I take away a grandfather, did i prevent children from being born,
This probably doesn't belong on this thread or on this site, but the question was asked, and my wish for all of you, is that you never ever have to find out. Thank your vets, thank your cops, thank your fire fighters, cause they see things that can drive decent people insane, yet they still do their jobs, God bless em.
I'm not sayin yall couldn't defend yourselves, I'm just hoping you never have to. And i don't suspect any of you will take advice from me, but if you catch someone breaking into your house, and you have the chance to take them out, then do it. Don't give them the chance to take you out. Cause they aint there to wish you nice day, if you can knock em out, that's great, if you can keep a gun on em till the cops get there that's great, but don't hesitate if it's you or them, cause if you do, you might not live to regret it. And one thing i know that kees me goin on, is that it was him or me, and i get to enjoy my grandkids, i hate it more than any of you could even phathom that he's dead, but it is what it is. What it does is suck that we live in a world where it came to that. But what can you do? Just give up? I'm no quitter, but I'm all for quitting wars if somebody could figure out how to avoid them, id be all for it.
Sorry for the rant, i don't think i crossed the line, but i am a bit buzzed, i know I'm not drunk, cause i cant trype when i get drunk, but I'm getting close. 10 or 16 more beers and it'll be bedtime, and i can get this day behind me for another year.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Mar 31, 2017 21:50:57 GMT
I have a couple friends who were long term police officers.. If someone was to break into my house ... I know what to do to protect myself legally.. If it comes down to protecting my wife and child.. I wouldn't hesitate I am sure.. If they can get through all my security they are purposely looking for something (there is a big drug epidemic in Aust lots of crime is drug related)- I would feel absolutely horrible afterwards but.. Nope. Its on them.
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Post by Timelord007 on Apr 1, 2017 7:03:06 GMT
I have a couple friends who were long term police officers.. If someone was to break into my house ... I know what to do to protect myself legally.. If it comes down to protecting my wife and child.. I wouldn't hesitate I am sure.. If they can get through all my security they are purposely looking for something (there is a big drug epidemic in Aust lots of crime is drug related)- I would feel absolutely horrible afterwards but.. Nope. Its on them. Well said my friend, well said.
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