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Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 9, 2019 22:25:51 GMT
Hello again. Funny enough Elkawho, I've just read the article written by Peter Oborne. It is one of the most thoughtful articles I've read about Brexit. We definitely need more time to properly examine what leaving the EU will actually mean for the future of all the citizens of the United Kingdom. We cannot rush into a deal just for the sake of it. The consequences could be grim. I would urge anyone who has been fed up with all the arguing to read this. It is unusual for someone who had such entrenched views to admit they have changed their views and explain so eloquently their reasons. Hopefully it reaches those it needs to reach, no point preaching to the choir. And the choir need to hold back a bit from poking holes in his statement long enough for that to happen, because it's still written from a neo-Imperial exceptionalist POV, but let him reach his compatriots using their own language
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Apr 10, 2019 11:40:53 GMT
I was asked my personal choice on the matter and i feel like ive just been told, But youre wrong constantly. I may be wrong, but its how i see it Did you vote to Leave? Fair enough. I'll lay hard cash you didn't vote for a single option currently on the table, because we both saw that piece of paper, and it was Remain in the EU or Leave the EU. You didn't vote for no deal Brexit, you didn't vote for a customs union, you didn't vote for Norway/Canada/the moon, and you didn't vote for a Swiss style option, or whatever else neo-Imperialist foaming the ERG with its comedy toff leader thinks will suit his bank balance, because he sure as hell won't be eating chlorinated chicken with the rest of us. I DID vote for Remain, and that was very simple. I knew exactly what I would get because I already had it and didn't want to lose it, and that was exactly what was on the ballot. Now, I think you were wrong to vote Leave, I'll own up to that. I also think the EU needs serious reforming, but that's another topic entirely. I also believe you shouldn't be bullied for your choice, but considering the gravity of this situation and the fact that it is affecting and will continue to affect our lives for the foreseeable future, then please tell us why you see it like you see it. Those of us who oppose Leave have (mostly) gone through our reasons for why we think it's a steaming pile of nonsense. Tell us why WE'RE wrong. That's all. I'm not going to ad hominem you. This is me assuming you voted Leave. If not then I have entirely misrepresented you! I voted Remain, but accepted that Leave won
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 10, 2019 14:33:55 GMT
Did you vote to Leave? Fair enough. I'll lay hard cash you didn't vote for a single option currently on the table, because we both saw that piece of paper, and it was Remain in the EU or Leave the EU. You didn't vote for no deal Brexit, you didn't vote for a customs union, you didn't vote for Norway/Canada/the moon, and you didn't vote for a Swiss style option, or whatever else neo-Imperialist foaming the ERG with its comedy toff leader thinks will suit his bank balance, because he sure as hell won't be eating chlorinated chicken with the rest of us. I DID vote for Remain, and that was very simple. I knew exactly what I would get because I already had it and didn't want to lose it, and that was exactly what was on the ballot. Now, I think you were wrong to vote Leave, I'll own up to that. I also think the EU needs serious reforming, but that's another topic entirely. I also believe you shouldn't be bullied for your choice, but considering the gravity of this situation and the fact that it is affecting and will continue to affect our lives for the foreseeable future, then please tell us why you see it like you see it. Those of us who oppose Leave have (mostly) gone through our reasons for why we think it's a steaming pile of nonsense. Tell us why WE'RE wrong. That's all. I'm not going to ad hominem you. This is me assuming you voted Leave. If not then I have entirely misrepresented you! I voted Remain, but accepted that Leave won Well then I have! And my apologies. I initially did the same, because that's how democracy works. Not now, after all this crap.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 10, 2019 16:34:02 GMT
On a completely and utterly unrelated note, Switzerland’s Supreme Court just annulled a very narrow referendum result on the grounds of ‘incomplete and intransparent information’ at the time.
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Post by Timelord007 on Apr 11, 2019 8:09:23 GMT
Hurrah a 6 month extension, 6 more months of nonsensical bafflegab, back biting, name calling & jeering from The Wicked Queen May & The Cosmic Hobo Corbyn.
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Post by doctorkernow on Apr 11, 2019 8:19:33 GMT
Hello again.
Coming soon at a cinema near you, feel the terror, the unrelenting fear, the horror of...
The Nightmare Before Brexit.
31:10:19
In Britain this year, noone escapes Brexit.
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Post by doctorkernow on Apr 11, 2019 8:52:34 GMT
Hello again.
On a more serious note, this delay changes nothing. The deadlock remains, the parliamentary arithmetic hasn't changed, the MPs now have ten days off to clear their heads before some proper decision-making needs to be done. I'm not holding my breath.
It'll be interesting to read the UK's school report from the EU in June if nothing much has changed. I am very weary of the whole thing now so will not be commenting any further on the whole sorry business.
Best wishes to all my fellow Brexit commentators whose views and thoughtful comments have made interesting reading. It has been a pleasure to participate in debate without the incendiary arrows of hate that permeate other forums (the BBC's Have Your Say is awful). So well done Divergenteers.
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Post by doctorkernow on Apr 11, 2019 9:44:29 GMT
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Post by mark687 on Apr 11, 2019 9:46:00 GMT
Regards
mark687
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 11:22:36 GMT
Good to know Mr. Tusk's words are being adhered to: "Please do not waste this time."
MPs are off on their Easter holidays until April 23rd, bless 'em.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,819
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Post by lidar2 on Apr 11, 2019 13:47:40 GMT
Time for a bit more punditry ...
Hard to see a Tory/Labour deal on brexit. The potential middle ground is a customs union but any firm commitment to this would tear the Tories in half so why would May go for it? Not to mention any deal without a referendum would probably tear Labour in half, so why would Corbyn go for it? If it is the current deal on the table, plus some nonbinding "clarifications" from the government to Labour and/or some non-binding commitments by the government that the next Tory PM could walk away from, why on earth would Labour sign up? Neither party leader is in the business of putting party before country, so I think that just about rules out a deal and the current "talks" are more about positioning themselves to avoid blame for whatever follows.
As to what now happens, a general election is a possibility but the problem for that is the outcome is so unpredictable neither party may be comfortable with the prospect. I think a second referendum is perhaps less likely than a general election, but the chances are increasing.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 11, 2019 14:17:23 GMT
So the No Deal Sword of Damocles is holding for another six months.
How on Earth will May get her deal through. A deal with Labour might work but honestly pinning hopes on a cross-party consensus like that just feels like a massive long shot.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 30, 2019 13:55:49 GMT
Useful thread on current state of cross-party talks
Basically they could make major breakthrough, or a minor one, or nothing at all. Joy of joys.
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Post by pawntake on May 1, 2019 6:54:23 GMT
Here we go again!!!!!Brexit is back!!!6 more months of going around in ever decreasing circles!!! For Gods sake Corbyn get behind a public vote,and lets be done with it!!!!
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Post by Digi on May 7, 2019 11:44:43 GMT
I don't know whether to laugh or cry....
The Conservatives and Labour, the two parties either actively or passively pushing Brexit, got thrashed in elections, while the 'stop Brexit' parties made colossal (historic?) gains--but the talking point has become "the message is that the people just want us to stop bickering and get on with Brexit."
What effing planet do these people live on?!
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,819
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Post by lidar2 on May 7, 2019 12:08:42 GMT
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.... The Conservatives and Labour, the two parties either actively or passively pushing Brexit, got thrashed in elections, while the 'stop Brexit' parties made colossal (historic?) gains--but the talking point has become "the message is that the people just want us to stop bickering and get on with Brexit." What effing planet do these people live on?! The local elections mean whatever the person interpreting the result wants them to mean.
Labour did badly in leave areas ... so it means they need to be more pro-leave Labour lost votes to Lib Dems ... so it means they need to be more pro-remain Tories did badly ... so it means they need to get on with brexit Tories lost votes to Lib Dems ... so it means ... etc. etc.
The kind of deal the 2 main parties are talking about - customs union, workers rights but no 2nd referendum - looks like it would tear both their parties in half
Total shambles all round
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Post by Timelord007 on May 7, 2019 12:54:54 GMT
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.... The Conservatives and Labour, the two parties either actively or passively pushing Brexit, got thrashed in elections, while the 'stop Brexit' parties made colossal (historic?) gains--but the talking point has become "the message is that the people just want us to stop bickering and get on with Brexit." What effing planet do these people live on?! Pluto or Mars my friend because it sure ain't Planet Earth. What a bunch of clowns, made UK laughing stock.
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Post by sherlock on May 7, 2019 13:06:12 GMT
That’s quite a poll
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Post by TinDogPodcast on May 8, 2019 17:36:34 GMT
I honestly think that some awful morning... I will wake up to
Brexit has happened
It keeps me awake
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,819
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Post by lidar2 on May 9, 2019 12:29:05 GMT
Was thinking last night about what might happen if a 2nd referendum resulted in a Remain victory.
Once the dust had settled and the initial howls of outrage and betrayal subsided, would brexiteers just give the whole thing up as a bad job or would they campaign for a 3rd referendum?
The current brexit fatigue which leads some to say "just get on with it" could quickly turn to "let's not go there again". Would a lot of people who had voted leave be breathing a sigh of relief? or would the brexiteers grow ever louder and harder to ignore?
Would Nigel Farage's new brexit party be rendered pointless and fade away, with Farage rightly despised as the snake oil salesman he is? Change UK wold probably fade away or be absorbed into the Liberal democrats I think the next tory leader would have to be a hardline Eurosceptic who had campaigned for leave in the 2nd referendum and make quite a nuisance of him/herself in the EU in order to keep the ERG types on board and prevent a split.
The big question would be whether Farage's brexit party made any impact at the next general election, which could reshape British politics if it did, or if it just faded way and poltics went back to business as usual.
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