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Post by nucleusofswarm on Aug 24, 2018 23:53:19 GMT
In an interview, Cornell made a joke a couple of years back, saying that it's the mark of a dedicated Who fan if they watched past Ep.1 and bothered with the Caveman stuff, since it always gets shafted or overshadowed in discussions of UEC.
But how is it actually, as a story itself? Is there merit in the lives and ways of the Gum?
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Post by constonks on Aug 25, 2018 1:01:28 GMT
Well, to Cornell's part, I have absolutely re-watched "An Unearthly Child" a few times, but have only seen the cavemen stuff once - but! That's more on the strength of episode 1, though. It's probably one of the best single episodes in all of Classic Who. It might be the best. The pacing and atmosphere and character introductions are all amazing. And they do it all with just the regular characters! So what could live up to that?
But even on their own, I think "The Cave of Skulls", "The Forest of Fear" and "The Firemaker" are pretty middle-of-the-road by Hartnell standards. It tells a decent enough story and we get some interesting character beats, but it's quite slow. Not Web Planet slow, but the next historical - Marco Polo - feels like it's well paced at seven episodes and this one felt like it dragged.
As I said, I've watched it once, so maybe when I go through the Hartnell stuff again which I think I'll be doing soon-ish(?), I'll have a different opinion. Maybe episode 1 won't overshadow the rest quite as much when I know what I'm expecting.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Aug 25, 2018 8:35:36 GMT
Probably one of the best episodes of Doctor Who, ever made.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 9:11:33 GMT
Post episode 1, it is good. Certainly, the production values are very impressive - a lot more so than on later, better regarded . Clearly the crew have had more time to work on this than they would have when Doctor Who became an ongoing series. But episode 1 is, as others have said, great. Like Rose forty years later, it is very much a character piece with the actual story taking second place. The following three episodes are caught in that difficult place between a classic first episode and the subsequent sci-fi fun of the Daleks, so it is often overloooked.
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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 25, 2018 9:20:22 GMT
I like "the Caveman stuff" but I could see where some people might find it a bit dry or dragging in places - but why beat up the first outing? There was obviously room to grow but thankfully that's become a matter of Whostory.
Myself, I'm happy to sit through it in entirety and just be very glad we're not having to watch reconstructions of it.
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Post by number13 on Aug 25, 2018 10:18:13 GMT
Number13 watch on stone DVD in man-cave. Number13 like 'Unearthly Child' more times than stars in sky; makes light in eyes, makes fire in heart, good, good!
Number13 think rest of tale not so good. Number13 wrote letter to complain about stereotypical portrayal of ancestors by modern humans in 'hairface'. But cave wall not fit into envelope.  Number13 watch Daleks instead.  |
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Aug 25, 2018 19:30:00 GMT
I like "the Caveman stuff" but I could see where some people might find it a bit dry or dragging in places - but why beat up the first outing? There was obviously room to grow but thankfully that's become a matter of Whostory. Myself, I'm happy to sit through it in entirety and just be very glad we're not having to watch reconstructions of it. Speaking of recons, |
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Aug 25, 2018 21:49:54 GMT
I've never found anything wrong with it. It's not up to the quality of episode 1, but that's a very high bar. It's an entertaining enough story and does a good job of setting up the TARDIS dynamics and the possibility of time travel, to be followed up with the possibility of space travel in The Daleks and the possibility that some stories are just going to be weird in Edge of Destruction.
There's also the clever contrast of the Doctor seeing Ian and Barbara the same way Ian and Barbara see the cavemen. On the downside, I don't think there's anything particularly "new" about the way Doctor Who does cavemen: they seem to be pretty much stock stereotypes who wield clubs and can't use fire right. It would be interesting, perhaps, to see another prehistoric humans story, rooted more in archaeology and anthropology to create a genuinely interesting culture.
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Post by mark687 on Aug 25, 2018 22:03:01 GMT
The Old Woman and her perspective on Fire and what it means for the Tribe and the whole Doctor and Ian Rock incident are both very good bits of drama, the only downside is after the Unearthliness  of the Part 1, Parts 2-4 seem a bit run of the mill. Regards mark687 |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 23:45:54 GMT
I've just been rewatching it. Knowing where this is going: "Fire will kill us all in the end," comes across as a nice, albeit unintentional bit of foreshadowing for The Daleks. On Skaro, fire was their end. Atomic fire. Brighter than a Tribe of Orb.
I always like comparing the original pilot episode and the second version of the programme that actually aired. I rather like the more strange and alien interpretation of Susan in the pilot and the reasoning behind why the Doctor abducts Ian and Barbara is rather intriguing. Here, it's not for fear of self-discovery as much as it is to prevent historical contamination. Knowledge of the TARDIS and its creators will have terrible consequences for Earth's civilisation as a whole. It's almost portrayed as a moral choice. The little changes here and there are very interesting. In the pilot, Ian attacks the Doctor when they try to dematerialise; Susan and Barbara trying to pull him off the Doctor. In the broadcast version, it's Susan who tries to stop him because the others can't reach the console. It's very small, but it completely changes the power dynamic for the next couple episodes.
As for The Tribe of Gum, I'd agree with nightwingfan and say it's a story about power dynamics, which it does fairly well with its regulars. Everyone establishes some kind of rapport or connection to another member of the expedition before the story's over. Unfortunately, I think Gum wants to do more with its guest cast then it feels it ultimately can. There are these big scenes devoted to furthering the subplot with the tribesmen, but the language is so restrictive that it just can't. I wonder if they'd established Susan as a telepath here ("Their minds reject things they don't understand..."), we might have had a story about the difference between the mind and the mouth. I'm thinking Karuna translating for Aris in Kinda.
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of the Part 1, Parts 2-4 seem a bit run of the mill.