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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 13, 2018 0:03:04 GMT
A lot of things can be called divisive or polarising or 'splits it in half' when it comes to the show and its fandom. But here's a story whose reputation is 'one half is different and fascinating, possibly even a little pre-Trek-ian, one half is a rushed mess with Beatles-hair cyclopses'. And Dodo.
But do you think that's warranted? Or is it a better 'whole' package than some reviews give it credit for?
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Post by Hieronymus on Oct 13, 2018 3:08:07 GMT
A lot of things can be called divisive or polarising or 'splits it in half' when it comes to the show and its fandom. But here's a story whose reputation is 'one half is different and fascinating, possibly even a little pre-Trek-ian, one half is a rushed mess with Beatles-hair cyclopses'. And Dodo.
Dodo's choice of costume is one of my favorite random elements for this story. Dodo arrives on the futuristic Ark wearing an outfit she chose from the TARDIS wardrobe: a tabard from the Crusades. And she didn't wear it to fit the period they were visiting; she wore it because she liked it and because it was fun. |
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Oct 13, 2018 4:56:20 GMT
I Ike thst it tries to do things differently.
Play with ideas like time travel and how evolution might endanger the time traveller (or the folks they meet) and thr consequences of the Dcotors involvement.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2018 6:03:32 GMT
I really enjoyed this story it is a pity Jackie Lane won’t do the audios it really would be great to include her in the range.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2018 8:39:03 GMT
I like it quite a bit. I always like multi-part stories that aren't just one long tale cut up but that change midway and shake up the status quo. This is very much one of the earliest to do so.
I don't get Trek vibes from it though, not so much as Twilight Zone ones. I could see the twist about the slaves being the masters in the Zone.
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Post by number13 on Oct 13, 2018 11:02:44 GMT
A lot of things can be called divisive or polarising or 'splits it in half' when it comes to the show and its fandom. But here's a story whose reputation is 'one half is different and fascinating, possibly even a little pre-Trek-ian, one half is a rushed mess with Beatles-hair cyclopses'. And Dodo. Take him to the Security Kitchen!
I'm ready to forgive a story many little faults after a halftime cliffhanger like that one ('Planet of the Monoids' though it is!) and I think the second half lives up well to the first. And the idea that the oppressed can become just as oppressive as their former masters when they get into power is a pretty daring storyline, especially for the 60s.
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Post by mark687 on Oct 13, 2018 11:03:53 GMT
1st half definitely better than 2nd but that's only because they make the Monoids one dimensional villain's in the End.
Story wise for the time Its extremely ambitious and yes there is a slight "Trek" feel to it IMO.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Whovitt on Oct 13, 2018 11:07:35 GMT
1st half definitely better than 2nd but that's only because they make the Monoids one dimensional villain's in the End. Story wise for the time Its extremely ambitious and yes there is a slight "Trek" feel to it IMO. Regards mark687 Of course the villains are one-dimensional, they have no depth perception with only one eye  (Sorry, that's a truly appalling 'joke'...) |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2018 11:17:59 GMT
And it must have been a fave on Trenzalore given the Monoid appearance in the Punch And Judy show in Time Of The Doctor.  Makes you wonder if the Monoids were one of the hoardes who tried invading Trenzalore - I want that story BF! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2018 11:26:13 GMT
I think it is worth appreciating as a complete late Hartnell story. They may be some of the most dated Doctor Who serials as standard 60's Sci-Fi but remain enjoyable to many including ourselves, and I do think that the Ark is very much of it's time, looking at so much of Star Trek TOS series 2 & 3 fare.
They have a charm of their own, and shouldn't really be compared with 70's Who which was a very different programme.
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Post by number13 on Oct 13, 2018 18:58:36 GMT
1st half definitely better than 2nd but that's only because they make the Monoids one dimensional villain's in the End. Story wise for the time Its extremely ambitious and yes there is a slight "Trek" feel to it IMO. Regards mark687 Of course the villains are one-dimensional, they have no depth perception with only one eye (Sorry, that's a truly appalling 'joke'...) I am appalled by all this inaccurate dimensionalism which misses the underlying message of the story (which I have only just discovered.  )
The First Doctor is 'a wanderer in the fourth dimension.' Humans are three dimensional. With no depth perception, Monoids would of course be two-dimensional villains. And on Refusis, the non-dimensional are kings. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2018 19:44:27 GMT
Of course the villains are one-dimensional, they have no depth perception with only one eye (Sorry, that's a truly appalling 'joke'...) I am appalled by all this inaccurate dimensionalism which misses the underlying message of the story (which I have only just discovered. )
The First Doctor is 'a wanderer in the fourth dimension.' Humans are three dimensional. With no depth perception, Monoids would of course be two-dimensional villains. And on Refusis, the non-dimensional are kings. "In the Kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is King" (Minority Report) Of course they only had one way at looking at things. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 0:51:25 GMT
I am appalled by all this inaccurate dimensionalism which misses the underlying message of the story (which I have only just discovered. ) The First Doctor is 'a wanderer in the fourth dimension.' Humans are three dimensional. With no depth perception, Monoids would of course be two-dimensional villains. And on Refusis, the non-dimensional are kings. "In the Kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is King" (Minority Report) Of course they only had one way at looking at things. And the Benny Summerfield story that featured the Monoids return is called... The Kingdom of the Blind. It all comes full circle.  (Wait, that's a different serial...)The Ark and Galaxy Four were some of the first Target novelisations I read. Full-blown colour in the mind's eye. I've been a bit reluctant to look at the original on television as a result, but there's some truly great directorial work here. I wasn't expecting an actual elephant on set in "The Steel Sky", that was a pleasant surprise. There's also a really nice blend of a full-size set in the background and a model in the foreground for "The Bomb" with the camera shifting focus from one to the other. Watch how it's framed to give a sense of presence to their invisible Refusian hosts, it's very clever.  We get to know the Refusians fairly well in the novelisation, Dodo gets to play tennis with one! The eventual power dynamic between the Monoids and the humans is hinted at in the first half as well. One of the Guardians falls afoul of a boa constrictor while hunting a deer and it's only the Monoid's knowledge of its behaviour (it soothes it) that saves his life. They're far more reliant on their slaves than they think. As to why the ship materialises back at the Ark in the first place, it's because Steven fell asleep at the console and knocked the controls. I'm flicking back through it now as I type and... I should really give this another read. It's very nicely written. |
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Post by Hieronymus on Oct 14, 2018 4:16:15 GMT
The Ark and Galaxy Four were some of the first Target novelisations I read. Full-blown colour in the mind's eye. I've been a bit reluctant to look at the original on television as a result... I too read the Target novelisation before seeing the story, a fact which is true for me for all of Hartnell, Troughton, and Pertwee's stories.
The first two episodes of The Ark hold up quite well, but the final two episodes . . . not so much.
The recovered Galaxy Four episode is definitely worth seeing though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 5:41:45 GMT
The Ark and Galaxy Four were some of the first Target novelisations I read. Full-blown colour in the mind's eye. I've been a bit reluctant to look at the original on television as a result... I too read the Target novelisation before seeing the story, a fact which is true for me for all of Hartnell, Troughton, and Pertwee's stories.
The first two episodes of The Ark hold up quite well, but the final two episodes . . . not so much. The recovered Galaxy Four episode is definitely worth seeing though.
Rad! A fellow book lover.  Actually, I realised as soon as I put the book away that pretty much every Hartnell story in Season 3, I originally came across through Target novelisations. Same with the Fifth Doctor. Yeah, the two different versions of The Ark are a pretty good demonstration of how a little bit of character goes a long way. The first half is a nice, high concept environmental disaster that's carried pretty much by the pandemic in both versions. It's a problem bigger than the characters. When we get to the second half, the story switches gears to be something a lot more personal. It becomes about the Refusians and the unrest among the Monoids. Trouble is... With the televised version, there's not really enough time to let us get to know these people, so they fall afoul of the Planet of Hats. It makes me wonder if maybe just one extra episode either way would have given it the boost it needed. I've not seen Galaxy Four yet, but I'll definitely check it out.  |
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Post by Whovitt on Oct 14, 2018 7:48:26 GMT
I too read the Target novelisation before seeing the story, a fact which is true for me for all of Hartnell, Troughton, and Pertwee's stories.
The first two episodes of The Ark hold up quite well, but the final two episodes . . . not so much. The recovered Galaxy Four episode is definitely worth seeing though.
Rad! A fellow book lover. Actually, I realised as soon as I put the book away that pretty much every Hartnell story in Season 3, I originally came across through Target novelisations. Same with the Fifth Doctor. Yeah, the two different versions of The Ark are a pretty good demonstration of how a little bit of character goes a long way. The first half is a nice, high concept environmental disaster that's carried pretty much by the pandemic in both versions. It's a problem bigger than the characters. When we get to the second half, the story switches gears to be something a lot more personal. It becomes about the Refusians and the unrest among the Monoids. Trouble is... With the televised version, there's not really enough time to let us get to know these people, so they fall afoul of the Planet of Hats. It makes me wonder if maybe just one extra episode either way would have given it the boost it needed. I've not seen Galaxy Four yet, but I'll definitely check it out. Oh, definitely do!  I remember it's recovery was announced on my 14th birthday, and it was exactly two years later that I finally saw the episode. Maybe it's because it's such a rare find, but it's always looked and felt like a very special and well-made episode every time I've seen it, and the performances are fantastic The recon that comes with it on The Aztecs Special Edition DVD is really very good too, miles ahead of the Loose Canon one, though it is an edited down version (but at least the sound is crystal clear, unlike the almost inaudible Episode 2 in the LC one...) |
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Post by number13 on Oct 14, 2018 10:41:47 GMT
I am appalled by all this inaccurate dimensionalism which misses the underlying message of the story (which I have only just discovered. )
The First Doctor is 'a wanderer in the fourth dimension.' Humans are three dimensional. With no depth perception, Monoids would of course be two-dimensional villains. And on Refusis, the non-dimensional are kings. "In the Kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is King" (Minority Report) Of course they only had one way at looking at things. That quote was my reference, good spot!
(But I'd forgotten it was used in 'Minority Report' - the phrase or similar goes back to at least before the Renaissance I think, and maybe much earlier.)
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Post by Hieronymus on Oct 14, 2018 15:23:36 GMT
"In the Kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is King" (Minority Report) (But I'd forgotten it was used in 'Minority Report' - the phrase or similar goes back to at least before the Renaissance I think, and maybe much earlier.)
Credit for the quote is usually given to Erasmus, but there's an older version similar to it that appears in a Jewish commentary from circa 400 AD. |
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Post by The Matt on Oct 23, 2018 12:22:15 GMT
I'd rate The Ark as one of my favorite Hartnell story. I don't even think the Monoids are that bad considering when the show was made. I didn't even think Dodo was that bad in it either.
Very much 8/10 for me.
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Post by constonks on Oct 23, 2018 14:39:41 GMT
I'll say this - not about the story or anything - I've always thought the ping pong ball in the mouth to create a cyclops eye was a pretty inspired monster design. It's the kind of ingenuity you don't see anymore.
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)
(Wait, that's a different serial...)
Actually, I realised as soon as I put the book away that pretty much every Hartnell story in Season 3, I originally came across through Target novelisations. Same with the Fifth Doctor.
I remember it's recovery was announced on my 14th birthday, and it was exactly two years later that I finally saw the episode. Maybe it's because it's such a rare find, but it's always looked and felt like a very special and well-made episode every time I've seen it, and the performances are fantastic 
