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Post by Bazoolium on Nov 12, 2018 23:00:39 GMT
Finally got around to watching it.
I wish it hadn't had aliens in. If they hadn't been included you could have spent more time with Yas' family, but what we got was good. The scenery was beautiful and really added to the story.
It felt a lot like Thousand Tiny Wings which is one of my favourite ever audio stories. It's a period of history that we don't talk about enough in Britain, it really wasn't all that long ago. This is the NEW we were promised.
Still think there are too many companions and that Jodie is being too Tennant like.
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Post by kinghumble on Nov 12, 2018 23:50:34 GMT
Excellent. Excellent episode. Excellent! I wish it hadn't had aliens in. If they hadn't been included you could have spent more time with Yas' family, but what we got was good. The scenery was beautiful and really added to the story. I had that same thought, but then I began to think, the aliens are meant to remind us of redemption - no matter how horrible your actions or your beliefs, you have the opportunity to change. Considering the story was about the evils of British colonialism yet made for a British audience, I'd say the aliens were pivotal What could they do? Stop partition? Reunite India? Save the guy, thereby erase Yaz and her family from history? Even the Hartnell historical had the crew unable to change events - Barbara couldn't stop the Aztecs' barbaric practices.
Fans enjoyed The Aztecs. Fool. To all those who seem to be saying that the Doctor had no impact upon the course of this adventure and events would have played out the same regardless of the TARDIS visiting, I would recommend you give it another view. I would direct you to the scene where the Doctor has conduct of the marriage ceremony. This scene is central to the love story at the heart of the story. If the TARDIS had not been there, there would be nobody to conduct the ceremony. There would be no marriage. There would be no broken watch. Which means the TARDIS would never have made the journey and so... If you review the scene where the demons tell the Doctor why they are there, and watch the scene where the Doctor warns everyone about the forthcoming threat and confronts the fellow with the gun, there you'll see your hero directly responsible for making sure everyone has the time to ensure the female family members are able to escape, rather than being killed on the farm. This means Yaz's grandmother's timeline is as it stands directly because of the Doctor's input. Direct impact on the story, twice in less than 15 minutes. Everything is as it should be. Phew! Excellent points, worth underscoring!
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 13, 2018 0:20:08 GMT
I wish it hadn't had aliens in. If they hadn't been included you could have spent more time with Yas' family, but what we got was good. The scenery was beautiful and really added to the story. I've noticed this is a recurring point in episode discussion. Thing is, I'd argue the Vajarian are intrical to the story on several levels: 1) Meta: this was aired during an event about honouring fallen soldiers, and they act as surrogate-extension of that. 2) Plot: Neither Yaz nor the Doctor know when Prem is meant to die, potentially leading to timeline damage if he's not 'dead' at the right moment i.e. when Umbreen has to leave for England and him basically giving his life to ensure she gets away. 3) Thematic: The episode is very heavily about how history and life-changing events are often shaped by the forgotten and unknown people as much as the figureheads. The micro as much as the macro. It's also about legacy: the Vajarian choose to abandon their murdering for reverence, Prem and Umbreen choose to forge their own lives, away from the castes and divides, and Manish leans right into those divides and perpetuates them by allying with violetn nationalism. In fact, Mannish and the Vajarian are almost mirror images: one chooses to forsake blood for peace, the other forsakes peace for blood.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 2:21:41 GMT
As an aside: I'm now really curious to see a story with the Vajarians that pits the old guard against the new -- the assassins against the witnesses. You could do some very interesting things with both sides, particularly when the witnesses realise that they're following a trail of bodies generated by their own kind.
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Post by bohnny on Nov 13, 2018 3:03:54 GMT
Well i feared my underwhelmed reaction last night may have been due to expectations, sort of in a last jedi way where people thought it was bad because it wasnt what they expected, it was bad. Now whilst i still have some issues with this story and imo it isnt a 10/10 like people are scoring, it is still very good certainly not the worst of the series as i was feeling yesterday. So good things, i loved the story, the historical setting was a bit more subtle than Rosa, altho i think Rosa worked with being more obvious, and it did really work. I had a trouble with a lot of the characters except the younger brother first time around but this improved second time as did the “villians”. My main issue was the writing was quite clunky in parts, more so than Chibs supposed clunky scripts and i like how the doctors main action in this story was marrying the two people, the speech and the way Jodie performed it made me purely cringe, didnt feel that first or second time as with the man line that felt really shoehorned in. Maybes if it had been a pure historical i may have felt slightly more for the characters? Then again the younger brother really resonated with me both times and i liked yazs nan as well, it was mainly the not grandad who i didnt connect with as much. The highlight had to be graham tho, who was chuffing brilliant. Honestly hes becoming one of my favourite companions he was great in this in both his key scenes (that hug made me cry both times) Overall probs 4th out if the 6 so far, just above arachnids and the ghost monument. I have prefered the pacing and weiting and plotting of some of the others more (Dont care what people say, Tsuranga was great) but it was still a good doctor who story and the series still feels so fresh after 6 years of Moffat, and thats from someone who loved capaldis era) a strong 3/5 or 7.5/10 Isn’t 3/5 actually 6/10 🤪 Give that man a gold star for mathematical excellence 🏵
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Post by Hieronymus on Nov 13, 2018 3:44:11 GMT
I wonder if the "killer turtles" mentioned near the start of the episode are an oblique reference to Chelonians?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 5:44:53 GMT
Isn’t 3/5 actually 6/10 🤪 Give that man a gold star for mathematical excellence 🏵 Least i will be Cyberman safe 🤪
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Post by thethirddoctor on Nov 13, 2018 10:32:10 GMT
Excellent. Excellent episode. Excellent! I wish it hadn't had aliens in. If they hadn't been included you could have spent more time with Yas' family, but what we got was good. The scenery was beautiful and really added to the story. I had that same thought, but then I began to think, the aliens are meant to remind us of redemption - no matter how horrible your actions or your beliefs, you have the opportunity to change. Considering the story was about the evils of British colonialism yet made for a British audience, I'd say the aliens were pivotal Fool. To all those who seem to be saying that the Doctor had no impact upon the course of this adventure and events would have played out the same regardless of the TARDIS visiting, I would recommend you give it another view. I would direct you to the scene where the Doctor has conduct of the marriage ceremony. This scene is central to the love story at the heart of the story. If the TARDIS had not been there, there would be nobody to conduct the ceremony. There would be no marriage. There would be no broken watch. Which means the TARDIS would never have made the journey and so... If you review the scene where the demons tell the Doctor why they are there, and watch the scene where the Doctor warns everyone about the forthcoming threat and confronts the fellow with the gun, there you'll see your hero directly responsible for making sure everyone has the time to ensure the female family members are able to escape, rather than being killed on the farm. This means Yaz's grandmother's timeline is as it stands directly because of the Doctor's input. Direct impact on the story, twice in less than 15 minutes. Everything is as it should be. Phew! Excellent points, worth underscoring!
Wow!
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Post by number13 on Nov 13, 2018 11:09:09 GMT
Give that man a gold star for mathematical excellence 🏵 Least i will be Cyberman safe 🤪 The last one with a gold star wasn't...
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 13, 2018 12:53:30 GMT
I wonder if the "killer turtles" mentioned near the start of the episode are an oblique reference to Chelonians? Ive been hearing that alot
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Post by tardybox on Nov 13, 2018 13:37:06 GMT
I loved that episode so much. It's an emotional ride that informed me a lot about a period of history on which I had no knowledge, and did so not through clunky exposition dialogue but through expositing *people.* I'm also really enjoying how Jodie's Doctor has gone back to being a facilitator for adventure, not seeking it out or striding in and taking everything in hand, just stumbling around the cosmos and doing what she can in whatever situation she finds herself in. That's what I think she did best here, finding herself (and her friends) in an impossible situation and having to navigate that. Lovely stuff.
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Post by tardybox on Nov 13, 2018 13:38:13 GMT
The irony of a book on the Partition written by Yasmin Khan...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 13:41:55 GMT
Least i will be Cyberman safe 🤪 The last one with a gold star wasn't... 🤩
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 14:15:02 GMT
I wonder if the "killer turtles" mentioned near the start of the episode are an oblique reference to Chelonians? No idea, but this series is starting to make a small habit of telling us about the adventures we’d rather be on, rather than stuck in some corridors with a P’ting or a field with some ominous bedsheets.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 13, 2018 16:11:36 GMT
I wonder if the "killer turtles" mentioned near the start of the episode are an oblique reference to Chelonians? No idea, but this series is starting to make. A small habit of telling us about the adventures we’d rather be on, rather than stuck in some corridors with a P’ting or a field with some ominous bedsheets. I have to agree, in every single episode so far something was mentioned in passing where I just thought- "I want to see THAT."
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Nov 13, 2018 16:47:29 GMT
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Post by mrperson on Nov 13, 2018 18:08:13 GMT
That was great.
I can understand how people thought Moffat was the best thing to happen to Who might not like it, but then I generally didn't like his style. Like many of the others, I like the echoes of Hartnell or perhaps BF historicals like The Settling or The Peterloo Massacre. I needed this change sorely.
I most certainly do not need to see the Doctor change events in every single episode. However, note the point made in post I responded to in my own post two down: Yaz's life if not existence are down to their presence during the events of this episode. They had a huge impact on events, even if it wasn't an impact in the sense of saving the day from a scary monster. (I've had enough of the latter, anyway).
I also don't understand the calls for more character development. Frankly, I feel like overall there's been a bit too much of that in the new series as compared to the original run. Much more companion development and episodes will be split half between the actual story and half between documentary/exposition regarding each companion. It would drag things down.
I really enjoyed this one and can only look forward to more given the show's new direction.
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Post by mrperson on Nov 13, 2018 18:11:25 GMT
That’s what my partner said, but I don’t think it’s very well explained in the episode. Unless I’m being completely thick and missed something? I think it could have done with Yaz’s grandma remembering Yaz at the end of the episode. She gives the watch go Yaz, knowing she somehow manages to go back in time and figure out the truth.Like I said, it’s been such an exposition heavy series, that the lack of any explanation for this is strange! I took the bolded as intended by the end.
The grandmother didn't say anything explicit, but....well that's the way I took it.
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Post by mrperson on Nov 13, 2018 18:14:30 GMT
To all those who seem to be saying that the Doctor had no impact upon the course of this adventure and events would have played out the same regardless of the TARDIS visiting, I would recommend you give it another view. I would direct you to the scene where the Doctor has conduct of the marriage ceremony. This scene is central to the love story at the heart of the story. If the TARDIS had not been there, there would be nobody to conduct the ceremony. There would be no marriage. There would be no broken watch. Which means the TARDIS would never have made the journey and so... If you review the scene where the demons tell the Doctor why they are there, and watch the scene where the Doctor warns everyone about the forthcoming threat and confronts the fellow with the gun, there you'll see your hero directly responsible for making sure everyone has the time to ensure the female family members are able to escape, rather than being killed on the farm.This means Yaz's grandmother's timeline is as it stands directly because of the Doctor's input. Direct impact on the story, twice in less than 15 minutes. Everything is as it should be. Phew!
Good points.
Great points, actually. Moreover, there probably wouldn't have been a Yaz and everything from the moment the Doctor crashed through the train's roof would end up being different in one way or another.
There was a huge impact on events. It just wasn't the same kind of impact we may have become accustomed to - Doctor shows up and saves people from a scary monster.
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Post by eric009 on Nov 13, 2018 21:50:51 GMT
To all those who seem to be saying that the Doctor had no impact upon the course of this adventure and events would have played out the same regardless of the TARDIS visiting, I would recommend you give it another view. I would direct you to the scene where the Doctor has conduct of the marriage ceremony. This scene is central to the love story at the heart of the story. If the TARDIS had not been there, there would be nobody to conduct the ceremony. There would be no marriage. There would be no broken watch. Which means the TARDIS would never have made the journey and so... If you review the scene where the demons tell the Doctor why they are there, and watch the scene where the Doctor warns everyone about the forthcoming threat and confronts the fellow with the gun, there you'll see your hero directly responsible for making sure everyone has the time to ensure the female family members are able to escape, rather than being killed on the farm.This means Yaz's grandmother's timeline is as it stands directly because of the Doctor's input. Direct impact on the story, twice in less than 15 minutes. Everything is as it should be. Phew!
Good points.
Great points, actually. Moreover, there probably wouldn't have been a Yaz and everything from the moment the Doctor crashed through the train's roof would end up being different in one way or another.
There was a huge impact on events. It just wasn't the same kind of impact we may have become accustomed to - Doctor shows up and saves people from a scary monster.
david bowie was better he had scary monsters:P
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