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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 11, 2018 20:58:20 GMT
My boyfriend wants to get into classic Who, or at the very least, get more familiar with it. I made an audio thread like this a while back that was very helpful, but now I'm looking for help deciding which serials to show him for each classic Doctor. He's seen the first episode of The Unearthly Child, and Genesis of the Daleks, but not really anything else. I'm trying not to pick uber-long serials, and they have to be at least mostly complete. Not necessarily the first story after a regeneration, either. Just something for each that's best suited to introducing a devoted fan of the 21st century show to the classics. I've got my best guesses below, but please recommend others.
First Doctor - I'm leaning towards The Time Meddler. Short, well-paced pseudo-historical that's just fun. Other suggestions?
Second Doctor - Two is a really hard era, between missing episodes, and pacing issues. Is there a better choice than Web of Fear?
Third Doctor - Spearhead from Space just works all around, I think. Otherwise, I'd probably go with The Time Warrior.
Fourth Doctor - I honestly have no clue what's the best story to showcase Four. The Ark In Space? The Face of Evil?
Fifth Doctor - This is the one I'm really struggling with. His first story definitely isn't a good introduction in my book, he spends too much of it incapacitated, much like The Christmas Invasion. But a big problem of Five's era is that it's so "arc" heavy in a lot of ways. Finding one lone story that's actually good and serves as a good "here's what this Doctor is all about" is difficult.
Six - Not much here to work with. Vengeance on Varos, Mark of the Rani and The Two Doctors are really the only serious candidates, and they all have their massive flaws. Vengeance is probably the most cohesive.
Seven - Remembrance of the Daleks is the only one I can think of for a good introduction, though I haven't seen Dragonfire myself since I was very small, and that might be a possibility.
Eight - ...like I have a choice... 
Please, if you can come up with better ideas than I have, PLEASE do so.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 11, 2018 21:08:32 GMT
Four: Pyramids of Mars or Genesis of the Daleks
Five: Visitation, Earthshock, (actually The Five Doctors works well)
BTW I agree with all your other picks
Regards
mark687
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Post by willbrooks1989 on Nov 11, 2018 21:24:40 GMT
Last year, I came up with a list of stories - one for each Doctor - which would introduce a friend to each classic Doctor, plus lots of key elements of the programme in terms of monsters and characters. Especially ones they’d know from the new series.
The only rule I set myself was that all the stories had to be roughly the same length (so four parts in most cases, or two parts for the Sixth Doctor, if using the s22 stories). Here’s what I came up with;
The First Doctor: The Aztecs
Not only is it an incredible story, it showcases the ‘pure historical’ format that almost entirely dies out after the Hartnell era.
The Second Doctor: Tomb of the Cybermen
A Cybermen story.
The Third Doctor: Spearhead From Space
Post Regeneration story. UNIT. The Brigadier. Autons.
The Fourth Doctor: Terror of the Zygons
Zygons. Sarah Jane Smith.
The Fifth Doctor: The Caves of Androzani
Regeneration.
The Sixth Doctor: Mark of the Rani
Renegade (Evil!) Time Lords.
The Seventh Doctor: Remembrance of the Daleks
Daleks. Davros. Coal Hill. The Idea that the Doctor isn’t just any old Time Lord.
The Eighth Doctor: The TV Movie
Bit of a ‘greatest hits’ this one. Regeneration. The Master. Bigger Production Values.
Almost all these stories are well regarded generally, I think (have people come round on Mark of the Rani yet? It’s my favourite Sixth doctor story!), which also helps!
It did the trick - said friend has done a fair few classic stories now, and is counting the days to the s19 Blu Ray!
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Post by constonks on Nov 12, 2018 6:52:46 GMT
Last year, I came up with a list of stories - one for each Doctor - which would introduce a friend to each classic Doctor, plus lots of key elements of the programme in terms of monsters and characters. Especially ones they’d know from the new series. The only rule I set myself was that all the stories had to be roughly the same length (so four parts in most cases, or two parts for the Sixth Doctor, if using the s22 stories). Here’s what I came up with; The First Doctor: The Aztecs Not only is it an incredible story, it showcases the ‘pure historical’ format that almost entirely dies out after the Hartnell era. The Second Doctor: Tomb of the Cybermen A Cybermen story. The Third Doctor: Spearhead From Space Post Regeneration story. UNIT. The Brigadier. Autons. The Fourth Doctor: Terror of the Zygons Zygons. Sarah Jane Smith. The Fifth Doctor: The Caves of Androzani Regeneration. The Sixth Doctor: Mark of the Rani Renegade (Evil!) Time Lords. The Seventh Doctor: Remembrance of the Daleks Daleks. Davros. Coal Hill. The Idea that the Doctor isn’t just any old Time Lord. The Eighth Doctor: The TV Movie Bit of a ‘greatest hits’ this one. Regeneration. The Master. Bigger Production Values. Almost all these stories are well regarded generally, I think (have people come round on Mark of the Rani yet? It’s my favourite Sixth doctor story!), which also helps! It did the trick - said friend has done a fair few classic stories now, and is counting the days to the s19 Blu Ray! Fun fact: 5 out of those 8 were the stories used for the Doctors Revisited specials - and the other three - Pyramids, Earthshock and Varos have all been mentioned here. (Those were also all meant to be two hours long and accessible, after all.) Personally I would say: 1. The Time Meddler 2. Tomb, I guess? I would say Web of Fear but of course you lose part three... I love Enemy of the World too but it's really rather atypical. 3. The Time Warrior 4. Robot 5. The Five Doctors 6. Vengeance on Varos 7. Remembrance of the Daleks 8. Storm Warning (okay, fine, the TVM then!) |
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Post by thethirddoctor on Nov 12, 2018 12:21:19 GMT
The Hartnell episode has to be An Unearthly Child part one.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 12, 2018 20:42:14 GMT
The Hartnell episode has to be An Unearthly Child part one. Indeed, and I already showed him that one, as I said.  I find you can watch that first episode on its own, it's complete enough in itself, and the rest of "100000 BC" or "The Tribe of Gum" or whatever you want to call the subsequent episodes aren't all that enjoyable.
Thanks everyone for the input and suggestions, you've been most helpful. Some obvious choices I missed, and some other ones to really consider. While I appreciate them, my boyfriend would be bored to tears by most of the historicals. He's got the mind of an engineer and mathematician, and history is foreign, alien and utterly uninteresting to him, much to my frustration. Hence, something like The Time Meddler, a pseudo-historical with more for him to latch onto in the character of the Monk, is a better taste of the First Doctor's era for him rather than The Aztecs. If the sci-fi of the First Doctor were anywhere near as good as the historicals, I'd be looking in that direction, but there isn't anything that's both good enough and complete enough to really work. I'm sure as hell not going to ever show him The Sensorities, and at seven padded parts, The Daleks is just interminable, no matter how important in the history of the programme.
For Two, I considered Tomb of the Cybermen, as that's the first story of his that I saw myself, but while I enjoyed it and it has some brilliant moments - like the conversation between the Doctor and Victoria - it's really slow-paced from what I recall. Web of Fear, even with the recon and the fact that it's two episodes longer, it just moves along faster. The ending might be a bit of a let down, but in other ways, it would help set up Spearhead. When I can finally convince him to watch something in black and white again, I may just flip a coin and pick between Tomb and Web. They each have their strengths (and a few weaknesses).
Introducing him to Three, it's just a matter of do I want to set up the UNIT era for him, or take it as read? That's the difference between Spearhead and Time Warrior, for this purpose, ultimately. He already knows and loves Sarah Jane, so introducing him to Liz Shaw would be good, but so would seeing how Sarah Jane got her start. They're both good stories for Pertwee. I'll probably stick with Spearhead, because I can go from there I can easily skip to Terror of the Autons to introduce the Master rather than continuing on with season seven - after Spearhead, the stories of season seven are too long and padded to work for someone who can't actively put himself in an "older TV" mindset, alas.
Can't believe I forgot about Pyramids of Mars for Four. That's probably the best single story start for him, yeah. Plus Damian will get the reference in Sarah Jane Adventures when we get there (and we're rapidly approaching that story).
I can't start Five with Caves. Starting off with a Doctor's last story would send the message that the rest of the era isn't worth watching, regardless of how good that story is. And I'm not looking for a Doctor's "best" story, just a good introduction. I'd thought of The Five Doctors, because that's one of my fondest memories of the show from my childhood, but I'd rejected it out of hand as just too "messy." But I'm not the only one who thought of that one for an intro, then maybe I was wrong to do so. I'm honestly not fond of Earthshock myself, and I have only seen bits of The Visitation, so those I need to consider more thoroughly.
I'm still torn for Sixie. Vengeance is the most cohesive of the three options, the best told and made story of the era, but it's so...un-fun. Mark of the Rani is so much fun on the other hand. It's so deliciously cheap and camp, that if I can get Damian in the right Monty Python mindset, it may just work.
At least for Seven, everyone seems to be in agreement on Remembrance. Good to know I'm not way off base there, lol. And having seen The Unearthly Child, all the Clara episodes and Class, Damian's well familiar with the significance of Coal Hill, so that serves as a good foundation and point of reference for him.
So it's looking like:
First Doctor - The Time Meddler Second Doctor - Web or Tomb Third Doctor - Spearhead from Space Fourth Doctor - The Pyramids of Mars Fifth Doctor - The Five Doctors Sixth Doctor - Mark of the Raini ? ? ?
Seventh Doctor - Remembrance of the Daleks
I guess with Six, it's going to come down to in which of the three stories is he the most enjoyable and least abrasive in his interactions with Peri. Is that Vengeance, Rani or Two Doctors?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 21:42:11 GMT
Snakedance or Enlightenment are good picks for the Fifth Doctor imo. Enlightenment is incredibly continuity-heavy though, so I'd probably pick Snakedance to give off the general tone of his era without getting too caught up in the continuity of it all.
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Post by kinghumble on Nov 13, 2018 0:08:24 GMT
1 - Definitely agree The Time Meddler.
Though... The Dalek Invasion of Earth may be a good alternate if you'd like to keep him going with Ian, Barbara and Susan?
2 - Tomb of the Cybermen is probably your best bet, yeah
But the final episode of The Invasion is my all-time favourite 2nd Doctor episode - Troughton is soooo funny and the missiles launching at the Cybermen ships blowing up is awesome. While The Invasion is sadly four episodes too long to be a great serial, the final episode is worth watching on it's own if you just explain the overall plot missed from the first 7. Actually, watch the last five minutes of episode 7, too - the Cybermen ships aren't in episode 8, and if your boyfriend is familiar with NuWho Cybermen ships he'll likely be impressed that the production has kept the designs consistent over the decades!
3 - Spearhead from Space, sure, solid choice...
...but I feel you're missing out on showing off the Delgado Master. Can I suggest either Terror of the Autons or Frontier in Space?
4 - Since your boyfriend is already familiar with Sarah Jane from Genesis of the Daleks, I'd suggest you go for either Leela or Romana instead
Therefore I recommend The Face of Evil or City of Death. I have a friend who's only interested in NuWho but City of Death had him laughing his head off
5 - Although I love the 5th Doctor audios, I actually haven't (yet) seen any of his TV stories... Still working my way through Tom Baker!
6 - Vengeance on Varos is probably indeed your best choice
Though I also thought Attack of the Cybermen was pretty good, though it has that one scene of stupidly gratuitous violence.
7 - Remembrance of the Daleks is the only 7th Doctor serial I've watched. But it's a great one!
8 - No chance you can get your boyfriend to listen to Blood of the Daleks instead? Or maybe The Silver Turk?
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Post by constonks on Nov 13, 2018 0:16:20 GMT
I actually can't believe I didn't think of City of Death. That's a great choice too.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 13, 2018 5:12:40 GMT
1 - Definitely agree The Time Meddler. Though... The Dalek Invasion of Earth may be a good alternate if you'd like to keep him going with Ian, Barbara and Susan? Dalek Invasion's a good story overall, but I'm trying to keep to shorter ones, and not worried so much about the companions at this point. I'm trying to pick stories that best showcase the Doctor himselves. Yup, The Invasion is great. I just finished watching it myself not that long ago, but like you said, it's way too long for this purpose. Making a sort of "clip show" out of it for him at some point isn't a bad idea, though. I'd thought about it, just for the Master, but Spearhead is such a better story overall, and Terror really does work best after you've seen the Autons' first appearance. If he shows interest in Three after Spearhead, Terror would be the next thing I show him, followed by (probably), The Mind of Evil, The Time Warrior and the Peladon stories. Leela's one of my favorites, so I'm hoping to show him the whole run from Face of Evil to Horror of Fang Rock at some point. But I'm still trying to get him in the right mindset, and used to watching older things first. Sorry, but I wouldn't inflict Blood of the Daleks on my worst enemy. I hate it.  I actually can't believe I didn't think of City of Death. That's a great choice too. I was pleasantly surprised that no one suggested it earlier, honestly. I'm weird in that I don't really like City of Death, and I actively dislike Romana II's portrayal during the series (she's much better in the Gallifrey audios). That being said, it's one I'd definitely show Damian at some point, because I think he would like it more than I in some aspects, at least. But right now, there's too much looping back and forth and repetitive action, which is a problem with a lot of modern viewers have with the old classics. |
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 13, 2018 5:28:15 GMT
We actually did watch Pyramids of Mars tonight, and it went over...okay, I guess? He liked the interplay between the Doctor and Sarah Jane, but didn't get into the story at all. Oh, well. This is going to be an uphill battle. It's not that he's actively disliking the stuff I'm showing him, but it's not really connecting, either.
Same with any classic movies I've gotten him to watch. Charade, Casablanca, The Music Man, The Pink Panther, White Christmas... they've all just kind of gotten a "ho hum, well, that was a thing" response. But this is a guy who loves Sherlock and loves to read, but won't read the original Conan Doyle stories. Who loves fantasy like Game of Thrones and Harry Potter, but hates Lord of the Rings and Narnia. It's mind-boggling sometimes. I don't think I'm ever going to find something that was produced before the 80s that he would just unreservedly like, let alone love. He's had a better reaction to the original Star Trek, at least in finding it more interesting, than anything else "old" I've shown him, though that may be just because he knows it means so much to me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 9:39:21 GMT
We actually did watch Pyramids of Mars tonight, and it went over...okay, I guess? He liked the interplay between the Doctor and Sarah Jane, but didn't get into the story at all. Oh, well. This is going to be an uphill battle. It's not that he's actively disliking the stuff I'm showing him, but it's not really connecting, either. Same with any classic movies I've gotten him to watch. Charade, Casablanca, The Music Man, The Pink Panther, White Christmas... they've all just kind of gotten a "ho hum, well, that was a thing" response. But this is a guy who loves Sherlock and loves to read, but won't read the original Conan Doyle stories. Who loves fantasy like Game of Thrones and Harry Potter, but hates Lord of the Rings and Narnia. It's mind-boggling sometimes. I don't think I'm ever going to find something that was produced before the 80s that he would just unreservedly like, let alone love. He's had a better reaction to the original Star Trek, at least in finding it more interesting, than anything else "old" I've shown him, though that may be just because he knows it means so much to me. 's one of my favourite films! Cary Grant and Audrey Hepburn, what's not to love? Glad it's gotten a wider audience.  For the Fourth Doctor, Planet of Evil could work on a production level if he's got the mind of an engineer. The jungle set for Zeta Minor is stunning even today and how a lot of the in-house effects are accomplished can be really engaging; on top of a good story about what lurks in the dark of the universe. A good introduction to the Fifth Doctor and a very strong entry despite being a sequel is definitely Snakedance. (It's also a nice backdoor pilot into the whole idea of historicals in general, since it's basically written the same way with the Manussans standing in for an Earth culture.) I really like the wary atmosphere of Frontios and it's standalone, but I'm not sure the production values are at their most forgiving there. [...] I guess with Six, it's going to come down to in which of the three stories is he the most enjoyable and least abrasive in his interactions with Peri. Is that Vengeance, Rani or Two Doctors?
I'd say Rani is him at his most Doctorish, but Varos is definitely him at his most heroic and actively engaged in the story. Its TARDIS scenes are some of the Doctor and Peri's best in terms of their friendship on television. They seem genuinely at ease with one another (e.g. her admonishment and his gentle embarrassment over a casual bit of domestics). |
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Post by eric009 on Nov 25, 2018 21:55:44 GMT
this list i used over the years
First Doctor - An Unearthly Child(1 only),The Keys of Marinus, The Web Planet
Second Doctor Web of Fear my fav but tomb of the cybermen or krotons
Third Doctor - Spearhead from Space, Curse of Peladon, the Carnival of monsters and Time Warrior
Fourth Doctor Genesis of the Daleks, Pyramids of Mars and Talons of Weng Ching
Fifth Doctor - Earthshock Black Orchid
Six Vengeance on Varos, Mark of the Rani and The Two Doctors
Seven - Remembrance of the Daleks Dragonfire
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Post by eric009 on Nov 25, 2018 22:16:21 GMT
And This a list of Storys i have tryed over the years THAT HAVE NOT WORK AT ALL 99% Were pick after seeing a good story i made the whole of them only 2 that got turned off The War Games and Time Flight
First Doctor - The Gunfighters and The Romans
Second Doctor The Underwater Menace and The War Games(long story)
Third Doctor - The Ambassadors of Death(long story), The Time Monster and Invasion of the Dinosaurs
Fourth Doctor Revenge of The Cybermen The Brain of Morbius Underworld
and State of Decay
Fifth Doctor - Castrovalva, Four to Doomsday, Time Flight
Six Doctor The Twin Dilemma, TimeLash and all of The Trial of a Time Lord
Seven Doctor- Paradise Towers, Ghost Light, Curse of Fenric
all got a 1 star from folk who watch them
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I find you can watch that first episode on its own, it's complete enough in itself, and the rest of "100000 BC" or "The Tribe of Gum" or whatever you want to call the subsequent episodes aren't all that enjoyable.
