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Post by mbaird07 on Jan 29, 2019 20:00:27 GMT
So I have just finished Zagreus in my listen-through of the 8th Doctor and Charley stories, and I stopped to listen to Gallifrey, as I know that they take place while the Doctor is gone in the Divergent Universe. My question is: How much of Gallifrey should I do before switching back to the Main Range? I don't want to get too far ahead in Gallifrey where something involving the Doctor happens and then have to blitz through the Main Range to catch up.
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Post by Digi on Jan 29, 2019 20:21:34 GMT
There is some debate about it on this forum, particularly as regards Gallifrey V-VI and once you get into the Eight/Lucie Miller era. You're not going to find a firm, 100% correct answer to your question for reasons no more complex than that we simply have never been given a firm, 100% correct explanation. But I think it's safe to say we have the broad strokes worked out.
My own personal take on the sequence of events is:
Monthly Range #50 "Zagreus"
Gallifrey: Series 1
Monthly Range #52 "Scherzo"
Monthly Range #53 "The Creed of the Kromon"
Monthly Range #54 "The Natural History of Fear"
Monthly Range #55 "The Twilight Kingdom"
Gallifrey: Series 2
Gallifrey: Series 3
Gallifrey: Series 4
Monthly Range #61 "Faith Stealer"
Monthly Range #62 "The Last"
Monthly Range #63 "Caerdroia"
Monthly Range #64 "The Next Life"
Monthly Range #72 "Terror Firma"
Monthly Range #75 "Scaredy Cat"
Monthly Range #77 "Other Lives"
Monthly Range #80 "Time Works"
Monthly Range #83 "Something Inside"
Monthly Range #88 "Memory Lane"
Monthly Range #101 "Absolution"
Monthly Range #103 "The Girl Who Never Was"
Gallifrey: Series 5
Gallifrey: Series 6
[unclear amount of time passes for both Gallifrey and Eight]
Eighth Doctor Adventures: Series 1
The Further Adventures of Lucie Miller (not yet released)
Eighth Doctor Adventures: Series 2
Eighth Doctor Adventures: Series 3
Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.1 "Death in Blackpool"
Bonus Releases VIII "An Earthly Child"
Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.2 "Situation Vacant"
Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.3 "Nevermore"
Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.4 "The Book of Kells"
Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.5 "Deimos"
Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.6 "The Resurrection of Mars"
Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.7 "Relative Dimensions"
Bonus Releases IX "The Four Doctors"
Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.8 "Prisoner of the Sun"
Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.9 "Lucie Miller"
Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.10 "To the Death"
Dark Eyes 1-4
Doom Coalition 1-4
Ravenous 1-4 (box sets 3 and 4 not yet released)
[unclear amount of time passes for both Gallifrey and Eight]
Gallifrey: Intervention Earth
Gallifrey: Enemy Lines
[at this point it becomes extremely unclear because we're not yet sure how all the Time War pieces fit together]
Gallifrey: Time War 1.1 "Celestial Intervention"
The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 1
Short Trips Rarities #2 "Museum Peace"
Short Trips 7.10 "All Hands on Deck"
The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 2
Gallifrey: Time War 1.2 "Soldier Obscura"
Gallifrey: Time War 1.3 "The Devil You Know"
Gallifrey: Time War 1.4 "Desperate Measures"
The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 3-4 (box sets 3 & 4 not yet released)
The Diary of River Song 1.4 "The Rulers of the Universe"
Classic Doctors, New Monsters 1.4 "The Sontaran Ordeal"
Classic Doctors, New Monsters 2.4 "Day of the Vashta Nerada"
Short Trips 7.9 "A Heart on Both Sides"
Gallifrey: Time War 2-4 (box sets 2, 3, and 4 not yet released)
[eventually]
"The Night of the Doctor" (TV mini-episode from the 50th anniversary)
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Post by mbaird07 on Jan 29, 2019 21:04:56 GMT
Thanks so much, that is extremely helpful.
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Post by constonks on Jan 29, 2019 22:17:01 GMT
Yeah, Digi has a good list there. To boil it down a bit, - The Monthly Range Eighth Doctor stories & Gallifrey I-VI both follow Zagreus directly, but don't interact in any way after that point.
- Intervention Earth takes place in Gallifrey's future, yet still leads into Enemy Lines which takes place at some point after Gallifrey VI.
- Time War 1 has the same President & CIA Coordinator as Enemy Lines.
- The Eighth Doctor Adventures (and the box sets that follow them) take place a while before the Time War but have a President and CIA Coordinators who do not appear in the Gallifrey series (but Doom Coalition mentions the events of Gallifrey II).
You can basically put the EDAs, DE, DC & Ravenous after Gallifrey VI or after Enemy Lines. Personally, I prefer the latter for various spoilery reasons but both are valid options based on the evidence we have. |
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Post by xlozdob on Jan 29, 2019 23:46:00 GMT
[at this point it becomes extremely unclear because we're not yet sure how all the Time War pieces fit together]Gallifrey: Time War 1.1 "Celestial Intervention"The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 1 Short Trips Rarities #2 "Museum Peace" Short Trips 7.10 "All Hands on Deck" The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 2 Gallifrey: Time War 1.2 "Soldier Obscura"
Gallifrey: Time War 1.3 "The Devil You Know"
Gallifrey: Time War 1.4 "Desperate Measures"The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 3-4 (box sets 3 & 4 not yet released) The Diary of River Song 1.4 "The Rulers of the Universe" Classic Doctors, New Monsters 1.4 "The Sontaran Ordeal" Classic Doctors, New Monsters 2.4 "Day of the Vashta Nerada" Short Trips 7.9 "A Heart on Both Sides" Gallifrey: Time War 2-4 (box sets 2, 3, and 4 not yet released) [eventually]"The Night of the Doctor" (TV mini-episode from the 50th anniversary) I like the interpretation that what we see in The Starship of Theseus is the direct effect ("rrrriples", as the 7th Doctor would put it) of the Time War starting and, thus, creating a new timeline where Sheena/Emma/Louise did not exist/left the Doctor before, and we have the Doctor alone, knowing about the Time War but not interacting with it directly (the Short Trips) until the new boarding of the Theseus. The way you put it, it makes look like he left Bliss somewhere, went on to have some solo adventures, then returned for her, which wouldn't be unheard of with 8, but I don't think the boxsets suggest is a possibility. Just an observation, not in any way trying to discredit your work, you've done a colossal job here  |
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 30, 2019 0:42:38 GMT
[at this point it becomes extremely unclear because we're not yet sure how all the Time War pieces fit together]Gallifrey: Time War 1.1 "Celestial Intervention"The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 1 Short Trips Rarities #2 "Museum Peace" Short Trips 7.10 "All Hands on Deck" The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 2 Gallifrey: Time War 1.2 "Soldier Obscura"
Gallifrey: Time War 1.3 "The Devil You Know"
Gallifrey: Time War 1.4 "Desperate Measures"The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 3-4 (box sets 3 & 4 not yet released) The Diary of River Song 1.4 "The Rulers of the Universe" Classic Doctors, New Monsters 1.4 "The Sontaran Ordeal" Classic Doctors, New Monsters 2.4 "Day of the Vashta Nerada" Short Trips 7.9 "A Heart on Both Sides" Gallifrey: Time War 2-4 (box sets 2, 3, and 4 not yet released) [eventually]"The Night of the Doctor" (TV mini-episode from the 50th anniversary) I like the interpretation that what we see in The Starship of Theseus is the direct effect ("rrrriples", as the 7th Doctor would put it) of the Time War starting and, thus, creating a new timeline where Sheena/Emma/Louise did not exist/left the Doctor before, and we have the Doctor alone, knowing about the Time War but not interacting with it directly (the Short Trips) until the new boarding of the Theseus. The way you put it, it makes look like he left Bliss somewhere, went on to have some solo adventures, then returned for her, which wouldn't be unheard of with 8, but I don't think the boxsets suggest is a possibility. Just an observation, not in any way trying to discredit your work, you've done a colossal job here Not a massively important thing to note but I think there was an implication that Sheena died in the fallout of whatever Time War event it was that the refugees were trying to escape from in Theseus. Just after she disappears and the Doctor starts asking if there was a girl with him, Rupa recalls him mentioning that he lost someone. I have the solo stories and short trips before Theseus regardless of the interpretation, but I have to say that I do quite like your’s. |
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Post by agentten on Jan 30, 2019 6:37:40 GMT
Thank you for the detailed posts everyone. I have lately been wondering about this very issue of Eight's contemporaneity with Gallifrey. I've hoped for Eight to pop up in a Gallifrey: Time War set. Perhaps the last set. A rebuke from Romana at a key moment would push him even closer to becoming the War Doctor and provide some interesting dramatic opportunities.
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Post by Digi on Jan 30, 2019 11:56:50 GMT
[at this point it becomes extremely unclear because we're not yet sure how all the Time War pieces fit together]Gallifrey: Time War 1.1 "Celestial Intervention"The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 1 Short Trips Rarities #2 "Museum Peace" Short Trips 7.10 "All Hands on Deck" The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 2 Gallifrey: Time War 1.2 "Soldier Obscura"
Gallifrey: Time War 1.3 "The Devil You Know"
Gallifrey: Time War 1.4 "Desperate Measures"The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 3-4 (box sets 3 & 4 not yet released) The Diary of River Song 1.4 "The Rulers of the Universe" Classic Doctors, New Monsters 1.4 "The Sontaran Ordeal" Classic Doctors, New Monsters 2.4 "Day of the Vashta Nerada" Short Trips 7.9 "A Heart on Both Sides" Gallifrey: Time War 2-4 (box sets 2, 3, and 4 not yet released) [eventually]"The Night of the Doctor" (TV mini-episode from the 50th anniversary) I like the interpretation that what we see in The Starship of Theseus is the direct effect ("rrrriples", as the 7th Doctor would put it) of the Time War starting and, thus, creating a new timeline where Sheena/Emma/Louise did not exist/left the Doctor before, and we have the Doctor alone, knowing about the Time War but not interacting with it directly (the Short Trips) until the new boarding of the Theseus. The way you put it, it makes look like he left Bliss somewhere, went on to have some solo adventures, then returned for her, which wouldn't be unheard of with 8, but I don't think the boxsets suggest is a possibility. Just an observation, not in any way trying to discredit your work, you've done a colossal job here No offense taken -- it is hard to reconcile in a way that's communicable in a straightforward listening order. My thinking on this is: (and for the OP, this is a lot of Time War spoilery stuff, so steer clear if you want to avoid that!) Pre-Time War Eight is travelling on his merry way, enjoying his life. His companion is Sheena (or Emma or Louise).
Then the War starts happening and his own history is being rewritten, rippling back through his timeline and changing the name of his travelling companion.
Then the ripples subside and his travels with Sheena/Emma/Louise have been overwritten. At this point, we have never seen what happens in the now-true timeline where he never travelled with her (or lost her, I forget exactly), because that all now happened 'off-screen' during "The Starship of Theseus." Essentially, we skip over pre-War Sheena/Emma/Louise era entirely and into to solo Eight having been aware of the War for some time. But in that off-screen interim, he's alone and can engage in the events of "Museum Peace" and "All Hands on Deck." It's a bit convoluted, I'll freely admit. Some of that is kind of just spitballing to see what works. But I don't think it's a terrible read of how things happen. |
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Post by shallacatop on Jan 30, 2019 12:10:49 GMT
I think, if anything, the Time War has an excuse to be all over the place and bonkers, with separate timelines being erased and the like!
I’m listening through Dark Eyes at the moment. It’s interesting how it’s essentially the Time Lords predicting the Time War - Big Finish essentially skirting around as they didn’t have the rights at the time - but it still feels a long way off.
I like it and I like how they’ve seeded the Time War into the Doctor’s life. I know they didn’t participate, but it makes sense that they would’ve had an inkling of it happening, as it’s the entire universe on the brink. Not to mention the Daleks trying to interfere with the Doctor’s past!
Basically this Time War is a long time in the making, yet it’s happening anywhere and everywhere. Exactly how it should be.
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