|
Post by Bazoolium on Mar 21, 2019 17:25:18 GMT
Although I liked this story - as a Doctor Who story that delves in to unknown with a visit to the home planet of little used 'companion' - I wouldn't have liked to have Kamelion getting 'taken over' as a plot in every story, as it gets dull after a while. So I hope we don't hear anymore from Kamelion myself as he's not really that interesting. (Jon Culshaw's performace as Kamelion was top notch though.) I'd give this story 3/5. Black Thursday dealt with Kamelion trying to understand emotions. I hope if he comes back then it will be more about him understanding his own mind. I agree with you that Kamelion getting possessed became boring.
|
|
|
Post by slithe on Mar 23, 2019 10:13:44 GMT
Probably the best 4 part story out of the releases with Kamelion. I thought it was a step up from Devil in the Mist and did attempt to give a backstory to Kamelion that was somewhat lacking from the TV adventures/episodes.
It certainly wasn't as great as some of the previous Davison stories - especially in the last few years and was probably the weakest set of stories since 2014 for the Fifth Doctor. That said, I enjoyed the release and thought it was quite an interesting premise. I liked the idea of the Kamille as 'benevolent dictators' and once they've conquered everything, they become bored of ruling their Empire and the rot sets in. It might have been more interesting to see that aspect fleshed out a bit. Structurally, the first half was better and I think the final episode was rather drawn on. The idea that the Doctor, Tegan and Turlough were actually Kamelion robots was a rather surprising deus ex machina and slightly better than the explanation of how the TARDIS is able to function again at the end. However, I did find myself thinking 'do I really care' at points - the threat of jeopardy wasn't really developed enough and the plot stuttered a bit. I suppose for this story, the need for Kamelion to be possessed is crucial and it might have been better had this story been released 'first' and the other releases developed to show Kamelion adjusting to being his own mind. In many ways, it was typical of a Season 20 release and would not have been out of place with that era. The segue into the Five Doctors is also quite good.
The Locus reminded me very much of the Matrix and, to all intents and purposes, that's how I imagined it. For an audio medium, I think it was rather brave of Morris to go for quite a 'visual' approach in this one - the ruined city, the beaches of Gallipoli, the TARDIS secondary console room, etc. Whether I want to see Kamelion back again, I'm not sure. It was a brave attempt for BF to try something new, but I am not sure that this entirely worked. Culshaw is great and I make no criticisms of his acting, but the idea of a 'shape changing robot' does lose its appeal on audio. I was also rather sorry that BF did not take advantage of Culshaw's excellent mimicking skills - he could easily have portrayed Kamelion 'pretending' to be, for example, the Fourth Doctor or the Brigadier - and this might have made for a more interesting story - particularly as Tegan did meet the Fourth Doctor and Turlough knows the Brigadier.
A good attempt at doing something different, but not entirely successful. The regulars seemed to be enjoying this and are on good form. BF are keen on new combinations and ideas - Kamelion for this trilogy and a forthcoming Mags trilogy with the Seventh Doctor. Hopefully, the new trilogy will be a it more successful.
|
|
|
Post by dangerwillrobinson on Mar 25, 2019 9:31:06 GMT
Extended extras and pdf script for The Kamelion Empire are now available to download for subscribers, along with the latest Subscribers’ Short Trip!
|
|
|
Post by Who Review on Mar 25, 2019 11:04:40 GMT
|
|
|
Post by constonks on Mar 30, 2019 1:50:49 GMT
This also now takes a number of books and short stories out of continuity.
Hinton’s The Crystal Bucephalus and his short “One Perfect Twilight”. “The Bird of Fire” “Mark of the Medusa” The Ultimate Treasure “Qualta “ “The Fall of the Druids”
Imperial Moon could still work in continuity I think.
It also in my mind takes the Kamelion clip from The Awakening deleted scene out of continuity. Which is not a big loss.
Yeah, here I am looking at the Kamelion section of my Fifth Doctor timeline just entirely uncertain what to do with it other than shrug it off with a footnote. But honestly The Crystal Bucephalus even has a scene where the TARDIS console is blown up just like in this story. As for the trilogy, I'll say I liked the middle two stories the best. This one was good but it did lack focus and the villain was just kinda Big Evil Guy. Which is fine sometimes but in a story where the villain is the only non-regular, Chaos could have used a bit more meat on his digital dreambones. And a little more explanation of what each Concept stood for. What do pure expressions of Liberty, Authority, Chaos and Harmony act like? What kind of governments do they form? What tactics do they use? Ironically, for an audio that torpedoes every novel and short story ever written about Kamelion, this one really would have been a better novel!
|
|
|
Post by fingersmash on Mar 31, 2019 14:48:20 GMT
This also now takes a number of books and short stories out of continuity.
Hinton’s The Crystal Bucephalus and his short “One Perfect Twilight”. “The Bird of Fire” “Mark of the Medusa” The Ultimate Treasure “Qualta “ “The Fall of the Druids”
Imperial Moon could still work in continuity I think.
It also in my mind takes the Kamelion clip from The Awakening deleted scene out of continuity. Which is not a big loss.
Yeah, here I am looking at the Kamelion section of my Fifth Doctor timeline just entirely uncertain what to do with it other than shrug it off with a footnote. But honestly The Crystal Bucephalus even has a scene where the TARDIS console is blown up just like in this story. As for the trilogy, I'll say I liked the middle two stories the best. This one was good but it did lack focus and the villain was just kinda Big Evil Guy. Which is fine sometimes but in a story where the villain is the only non-regular, Chaos could have used a bit more meat on his digital dreambones. And a little more explanation of what each Concept stood for. What do pure expressions of Liberty, Authority, Chaos and Harmony act like? What kind of governments do they form? What tactics do they use? Ironically, for an audio that torpedoes every novel and short story ever written about Kamelion, this one really would have been a better novel! Honestly, I'm apt to just write this disparity as some timey wimey shenanigans leakage from the Time War changing the story. One timeline the console blows up here, the other it blows up during the events of The Crystal Bucephalus. Overall though, I was underwhelmed by this tetralogy of stories. Can we all just agree Kamelion doesn't work and move on with life?
|
|
|
Post by nottenst on Apr 1, 2019 15:02:51 GMT
After a couple of fairly run-of-the-mill stories, this was a great conclusion to the trilogy. Sure, the ending was pretty predictable from the themes of the previous stories, but it was still fun hearing it. As mentioned upthread, this is a great story for continuity lovers, so I had a ball Also, was I the only one who had to pause the story towards the end of Part Four until I stopped laughing? "Don't think about me, don't even mention me." I mean, it gives an in-universe explanation, but it's probably the best meta-joke I've come across in Doctor Who I didn't have to pause, but I did laugh. I thought it was great to explain it all neatly. Overall, it was a nice end to this series of stories. I'm glad they tried this out.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Apr 12, 2019 2:06:29 GMT
I may be reading more into this than I should, but it’s odd that Tegan is “chaos”, whereas from Kamelion’s perspective Tegan is an Authority, her mind is so powerful it tends to overwhelm Kamelion and the Doctor is chaos because he overturns orderly places and pushes Kamelion to leave his safe space. Perhaps it’s Kamelion trying to give the Doctor a clue as to the episode 2 cliffhanger....
|
|
|
Post by theotherjosh on Apr 18, 2019 18:16:56 GMT
This trilogy has really surprised me, because it's been a really enjoyable series of stories about Kamelion, a character for whom for the longest time the appropriate response has been a smirk and an eye roll.
But I enjoyed everything about it. Doctor Who is chockablock with galactic empires and the most feared warrior races in the galaxy, but this empire felt different. Maybe because of how it was presented, or because we knew how it fell, but it did feel authentic to me in a way the empire of the week seldom does. Something I tend not to enjoy on the television series is when the baddie is defeated through a ruse that wouldn't fool a child, and I liked how the Doctor and his adversary anticipated, reacted and adapted to each others' actions. That made it feel active and alive.
Sound effects were glorious (I especially liked the laser sound effect), and the music worked extraordinarily well. Tegan and Turlough had wonderful chemistry. The Doctor was the best version of himself. It was fun, and clever, and not so serious that it was above some gentle teasing of Kamelion.
|
|
|
Post by Ela on May 22, 2019 4:19:45 GMT
It was an interesting story, but I did think it took a bit longer than necessary to come to a conclusion at the end.
|
|
|
Post by frisby78 on May 22, 2019 8:45:05 GMT
I think the Kamelion 'gap' could have been filled by a single 4 part story. For me it just seemed a bit stretched out over 4 stories.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 13:33:19 GMT
I really enjoyed this, and like Power Game it managed to do the possessed Kamelion schtick without it feeling stale and worn out, which is quite the feat given I already felt well and truly over that trope by the end of Black Thursday. Which I guess just goes to show, it's not what you do, but instead how you do it that really counts. Sure Chaos was a bit of a scenery chewer, but certainly it didn't dampen my enjoyment of the story any.
My only real lasting complaint against this trilogy as a whole now is that it turned out to be what I initially feared, basically an exercise in box ticking for the sake of continuity above all else. And while I get why, I still can't help but stand by my earlier thoughts that, having cast Jon Culshaw, who has been great as Kamelion, I wish they had spread his failures out a bit over two or three trilogies, and given us a few adventures with Kamelion where he was actually an asset, rather than always being a burden. Work on him as a character rather than mostly as a plot device. Because I do think there is more to mine here, and if this trilogy has a major flaw it is that it approached the character in too linear a fashion, as if it was a problem to be solved, rather than as a character to be grown and expanded upon. I'd really like a return of Kamelion with a bit more focus on the latter next time, thanks.
That is, if there is a next time, given how this one ends. Mind you, I guess they can concoct some kind of an emergency that requires Kamelion to leave the zero room again, and I hope they do, because as I said there seems to be the potential for exploring the character in plenty of ways that don't involve him becoming possessed. And I really hope we get some of them at some point. A trilogy with just Kamelion, Turlough and the Doctor, perhaps. Hmmm, just imagine...
|
|
|
Post by Ela on Jul 4, 2019 18:48:26 GMT
After a couple of fairly run-of-the-mill stories, this was a great conclusion to the trilogy. Sure, the ending was pretty predictable from the themes of the previous stories, but it was still fun hearing it. As mentioned upthread, this is a great story for continuity lovers, so I had a ball Also, was I the only one who had to pause the story towards the end of Part Four until I stopped laughing? "Don't think about me, don't even mention me." I mean, it gives an in-universe explanation, but it's probably the best meta-joke I've come across in Doctor Who Did notice this comment and I did laugh (but not so long that I had to pause the story).
|
|
|
Post by slithe on Aug 23, 2019 19:16:45 GMT
As with Devil in the Mist, I thought I'd give this another re-listen. I am still not that struck on it and found my mind wandering, particularly with the latter half of the story. The world building is good and the premise of the Kamelion Empire is an interesting one (the idea of benign despotism also being covered in Emissary of the Daleks).
The story showcased Culshaw's good voice acting skills and the dual role of Chaos/Kamelion are played out well.
I don't think this one needed four episodes. A 2 x 2 parter release may have been better. The cliffhangers are also a bit underwhelming - we know that the main cast will not die and that the TARDIS will not be blown up or severely damaged. The Doctor, Tegan and Turlough as Kamelion Robots and the Secondary TARDIS Console Room/Silent Mode are rather deus ex machinas to get round some pretty tricky plot points if I'm honest.
Great soundtrack though. Very evocative of the late Season 18/Season 19 vibe (got a Logopolis vibe) for this one.
This might have been better as the 'middle' part of the trilogy with a final release allowing Kamelion to put what he had learned into practice instead of hiding away. Would also have stopped the trilogy relying on the same plot device - Kamelion being taken over.
Here's hoping the releases with 5th Doctor and Marc are slightly better...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 9:13:44 GMT
This is the strongest of the lot,good story and exciting too as for cliffhangers and knowing the characters aren’t going to die etc etc cannot think it annoys me it’s in the flavour of the era. this definitely is a relisten so cannot say more than that.Loved it
|
|
|
Post by muckypup on Oct 25, 2021 19:00:10 GMT
I just had a re-listen to Kamelion trilogy……. On the whole it’s not bad, I still not keen on culshaw as the droid himself, but 4 nice tales, bit overuse of the mind control thing and this final tale would have been better as another 2 parter……. But fun would building and on first listen I didn’t get the twist But a nice collection of stories that were perhaps tied up a bit quick and could have had another trilogy to fully round things and make it a bit less mind control centric stories.
|
|