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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 11:24:29 GMT
{Spoiler}{Spoiler} I’d assumed it was more linear, due to the mention at the end of the other Masters planning to dump Roberts in the Time Vortex again.
-Roberts Master escapes Eye as mentioned in The Lifeboat and the Deathboat, gets to Coldstarn (is that how it’s spelt?) and then as far he remembers ends up back in the Vortex. -Roberts Master is rescued from Vortex by Esterath and put in a new body (a homeless man) in preparation for the battle for the Glory as per The Glorious Dead. The new Master is eventually defeated after a battle across realities and imprisoned in the Eye again by Kroton, new keeper of the Glory. -The Master is trapped in the Eye for a while, occasionally managing to converse with the Doctor (Sometime Never, The Deadstone Memorial, The Gallifrey Chronicles). -The Master escapes the Eye again via manipulating Edward Grainger, as shown in short story Forgotten, and resorts to increasingly desperate body jumping, as show in Mastermind, but finds he keeps reverting to Zombeevers, eventually going in search of Artron’s Tomb (with vague memories of having previously discovered something on Coldstarn). {Spoiler}{Spoiler} That’s pretty much how I interpreted it. And the only issue I can see with it is that in Mastermind the Master specifically says that when he learnt to project himself out of the Eye of Harmony, he made sure not to make the Doctor aware of his existence, preferring to keep him thinking that he was dead. Whereas in the Eighth Doctor Novels he very much makes his presence known. {Spoiler}That could be wrangled away by The Gallifrey Chronicles. There, much of the TARDIS is burned from the inside out by a cold-fusion reactor in a move that feels as though it was supposed to lead into the Eccleston/Tennant set-up, but probably isn't anymore. All that excess energy gets channelled into the Eye of Harmony, so for all intents and purposes, he could consider the Master dead by that point.
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Post by sherlock on Oct 10, 2019 11:29:12 GMT
{Spoiler} I’d assumed it was more linear, due to the mention at the end of the other Masters planning to dump Roberts in the Time Vortex again.
-Roberts Master escapes Eye as mentioned in The Lifeboat and the Deathboat, gets to Coldstarn (is that how it’s spelt?) and then as far he remembers ends up back in the Vortex. -Roberts Master is rescued from Vortex by Esterath and put in a new body (a homeless man) in preparation for the battle for the Glory as per The Glorious Dead. The new Master is eventually defeated after a battle across realities and imprisoned in the Eye again by Kroton, new keeper of the Glory. -The Master is trapped in the Eye for a while, occasionally managing to converse with the Doctor (Sometime Never, The Deadstone Memorial, The Gallifrey Chronicles). -The Master escapes the Eye again via manipulating Edward Grainger, as shown in short story Forgotten, and resorts to increasingly desperate body jumping, as show in Mastermind, but finds he keeps reverting to Zombeevers, eventually going in search of Artron’s Tomb (with vague memories of having previously discovered something on Coldstarn). {Spoiler} That’s pretty much how I interpreted it. And the only issue I can see with it is that in Mastermind the Master specifically says that when he learnt to project himself out of the Eye of Harmony, he made sure not to make the Doctor aware of his existence, preferring to keep him thinking that he was dead. Whereas in the Eighth Doctor Novels he very much makes his presence known. {Spoiler} The Master could just be lying to the UNIT interrogators to make his escape sound more impressive.
Plus at the time of those chats the Doctor is amnesiac and has no idea who the Master is, so technically he didn’t reveal himself.
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Post by mark687 on Oct 10, 2019 12:00:05 GMT
{Spoiler} Delgado was 12. Beevers (before being wounded) was 13. Wounded Beevers swallows a Deathworm Morphant and possesses Gordon Tipple. Tipple gets exterminated and the morphant possesses Bruce.
Aanndd now things get complicated.
The Bruce Master is sucked into the Eye of Harmony and three things happen.
Part of him escapes as a gas. This is the Zombeevers who turns up in Mastermind.
Part of him escapes but is expelled from the TARDIS and still looks like Bruce.
Part of him ends up crossing multiplie realities and ends up possessing a homeless man (the DWM comics).
The Zombeevers becomes McQueen. McQueen is the start of a whole new regeneration cycle.
One day someone becomes Jacobi. Jacobi becomes Sim. Sim becomes Gomez.
Gomez becomes Mandip Gill and hypnotises a bunch of idiot humans to think they’re her family. {Spoiler} Just wondering - where's it confirmed that Delgado is the incarnation before Pratt/Beevers? I know it's easy to assume, but I'm just curious if it's actually stated anywhere. Well its an assumption that hasn't been corrected put it that way
Regards
mark687
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Post by elkawho on Oct 10, 2019 12:34:35 GMT
i liked this set so much. Every story had something that I loved about it. I would call the Whispers a horror-type story. I liked how they played with the medium a bit, considering how hard it is to do quiet on audio. And I like that Liv was so untrusting of the Eleven. OF COURSE HE'S GOING TO DO SOMETHING EVIL! Yeah, I'm not sure the gun played out as well as it should have, but I still enjoyed it. Planet of Dust was excellent.. I love seeing the Master being "The Master", controlling people and using his machinations to put himself on top. And Day Of The Master was as great as others have said. I loved that Artron Energy is named after someone. It makes perfect sense. We have Watts, Joules (sp?), etc, so why not the Timelords? And I loved how this story ties up my issues with Fairytale of Salzburg, somewhat changing my opinion of that story. And Eric Roberts was so much better in this story than he was in. Not nearly as flat, and I loved how the other Masters think slightly less of him. Michelle Gomez was a joy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 12:40:01 GMT
i liked this set so much. Every story had something that I loved about it. I would call the Whispers a horror-type story. I liked how they played with the medium a bit, considering how hard it is to do quiet on audio. And I like that Liv was so untrusting of the Eleven. OF COURSE HE'S GOING TO DO SOMETHING EVIL! Yeah, I'm not sure the gun played out as well as it should have, but I still enjoyed it. Planet of Dust was excellent.. I love seeing the Master being "The Master", controlling people and using his machinations to put himself on top. And Day Of The Master was as great as others have said. I loved that Artron Energy is named after someone. It makes perfect sense. We have Watts, Joules (sp?), etc, so why not the Timelords? And I loved how this story ties up my issues with Fairytale of Salzburg, somewhat changing my opinion of that story. And Eric Roberts was so much better in this story than that last one he was in. Not nearly as flat, and I loved how the other Masters think slightly less of him. Michelle Gomez was a joy. Totally agree with you . I loved the Fairytale and had no issues with not finding out anything about the Wish Lord .Gomez was an absolute delight in this really. And look forward to revisiting it all again for the third time tomorrow. I feel happy and content 🤪
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 12:49:58 GMT
Only listened to the first story so far. It's quite a dark, quiet little horror. Really, though, it's a character piece isn't it? About Liv's feelings towards The Eleven and his "redemption". She's certainly taking more of a pragmatic, dark turn here. Helen is certainly aware of it. I like a character piece to kick off a set.
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Post by shallacatop on Oct 10, 2019 12:55:59 GMT
Planet of Dust was great. Geoffrey Beevers is chilling as the Master, even at the very end of his life. I loved that he built and ruled his empire for his own selfish gain, removing the water and slowly feeding it back if they did his bidding. I do wish he’d be given his own box set and they’d let Beevers pen another story.
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Post by Digi on Oct 10, 2019 13:14:35 GMT
.. wow.. What have I missed, I don't even thnk right now I could name them all ! {Spoiler}Delgado was 12. Beevers (before being wounded) was 13. Wounded Beevers swallows a Deathworm Morphant and possesses Gordon Tipple. Tipple gets exterminated and the morphant possesses Bruce.
Aanndd now things get complicated.
The Bruce Master is sucked into the Eye of Harmony and three things happen.
Part of him escapes as a gas. This is the Zombeevers who turns up in Mastermind.
Part of him escapes but is expelled from the TARDIS and still looks like Bruce.
Part of him ends up crossing multiplie realities and ends up possessing a homeless man (the DWM comics).
The Zombeevers becomes McQueen. McQueen is the start of a whole new regeneration cycle.
One day someone becomes Jacobi. Jacobi becomes Sim. Sim becomes Gomez.
Gomez becomes Mandip Gill and hypnotises a bunch of idiot humans to think they’re her family. This is terrific, except for skipping over Crispy dumping his consciousness into Tremas's body (the Ainley Master), the Ainley Master ending up as a cat person, and then [[somehow]] turning back into Crispy so that he could regenerate into Macqueen. I wouldn't mind a Big Finish story addressing how Cat Person-Ainley-Master got turned back into Crispy. Actually, I'd be happy with just a little bit of dialogue somewhere clarifying how this happened, I don't even need the point belabored by an entire story.
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Post by sherlock on Oct 10, 2019 13:22:13 GMT
{Spoiler}Delgado was 12. Beevers (before being wounded) was 13. Wounded Beevers swallows a Deathworm Morphant and possesses Gordon Tipple. Tipple gets exterminated and the morphant possesses Bruce.
Aanndd now things get complicated.
The Bruce Master is sucked into the Eye of Harmony and three things happen.
Part of him escapes as a gas. This is the Zombeevers who turns up in Mastermind.
Part of him escapes but is expelled from the TARDIS and still looks like Bruce.
Part of him ends up crossing multiplie realities and ends up possessing a homeless man (the DWM comics).
The Zombeevers becomes McQueen. McQueen is the start of a whole new regeneration cycle.
One day someone becomes Jacobi. Jacobi becomes Sim. Sim becomes Gomez.
Gomez becomes Mandip Gill and hypnotises a bunch of idiot humans to think they’re her family. This is terrific, except for skipping over Crispy dumping his consciousness into Tremas's body (the Ainley Master), the Ainley Master ending up as a cat person, and then [[somehow]] turning back into Crispy so that he could regenerate into Macqueen. I wouldn't mind a Big Finish story addressing how Cat Person-Ainley-Master got turned back into Crispy. Actually, I'd be happy with just a little bit of dialogue somewhere clarifying how this happened, I don't even need the point belabored by an entire story. How Ainley became crispy again is addressed in Dust Breeding. Basically he tried to claim the Warp Core, a massive superweapon, but underestimated its sentience and it attacked him, leaving him back in his crispy form.
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Post by Digi on Oct 10, 2019 13:39:03 GMT
This is terrific, except for skipping over Crispy dumping his consciousness into Tremas's body (the Ainley Master), the Ainley Master ending up as a cat person, and then [[somehow]] turning back into Crispy so that he could regenerate into Macqueen. I wouldn't mind a Big Finish story addressing how Cat Person-Ainley-Master got turned back into Crispy. Actually, I'd be happy with just a little bit of dialogue somewhere clarifying how this happened, I don't even need the point belabored by an entire story. How Ainley became crispy again is addressed in Dust Breeding. Basically he tried to claim the Warp Core, a massive superweapon, but underestimated its sentience and it attacked him, leaving him back in his crispy form. I clearly have not listened to that story in a long time! Did it also address his escaping from being a cat person?
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Oct 10, 2019 13:44:27 GMT
How Ainley became crispy again is addressed in Dust Breeding. Basically he tried to claim the Warp Core, a massive superweapon, but underestimated its sentience and it attacked him, leaving him back in his crispy form. I clearly have not listened to that story in a long time! Did it also address his escaping from being a cat person? That’s addressed in the Virgin New Adventures Books, but that contradicts Dust Breeding. Although it seems to be that the virus was primarily affecting his Trakenite body so when that was stripped away in Dust Breeding, i imagine it also cured him.
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Post by mark687 on Oct 10, 2019 13:50:04 GMT
How Ainley became crispy again is addressed in Dust Breeding. Basically he tried to claim the Warp Core, a massive superweapon, but underestimated its sentience and it attacked him, leaving him back in his crispy form. I clearly have not listened to that story in a long time! Did it also address his escaping from being a cat person? Paraphrasing
"The awesome power of the Warp Core tore away the weak infected Tarkenite form leaving me in my prior true state
Regards
mark687
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Post by elkawho on Oct 10, 2019 14:09:10 GMT
I just listened to Whispers again and there is a point of concern that I have with that story. (I had it the first time but forgot about it when writing my previous post.) So out trio of heroes discovers that The Eleven is hearing his voices again and that he could be making somewhat questionable choices, so the Doctor states that after they get off the planet he will allow The Eleven to go his own way? And subject others to his possible evil-doings? Not bring him back to Gallifrey and let the Timelords sort it out? Pretty irresponsible of The Doctor, don't you think?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 15:06:52 GMT
I just listened to Whispers again and there is a point of concern that I have with that story. (I had it the first time but forgot about it when writing my previous post.) So out trio of heroes discovers that The Eleven is hearing his voices again and that he could be making somewhat questionable choices, so the Doctor states that after they get off the planet he will allow The Eleven to go his own way? And subject others to his possible evil-doings? Not bring him back to Gallifrey and let the Timelords sort it out? Pretty irresponsible of The Doctor, don't you think? I get your point but hey given the amount of renegade evil time lords we have had lately ,there would probably mor chance of justice happening to the 11 on some other world, the way Gallifrey is going he might just be a hero on his return!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 18:00:41 GMT
IT has just gotten dark and am just finishing off an episode of Gallifrey 6 i tend to not do Dalek stories after dark. But it really hit me of what i really loved about Ravenous apart from the fact it is excellent -no bloody Daleks !
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Oct 10, 2019 20:04:25 GMT
“Whisper” is a tight little base-under-siege story and the reveal of the main baddie was effectively done. This was actually one of the better stories for the 8th Doctor in some time. I find that of late the 8th Doctor Range has become too focused on the companions and less on the Doctor and this story was a good story where the Doctor was allowed to be the cleverest one on the base, taking in information and figuring things out. I don’t know that I really bought the whole Liv with a gun subplot. And did I miss it, or did Helen & Liv not tell the Doctor that 11’s various incarnations we’re back?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 20:14:46 GMT
{Spoiler} Listening through Eleven's regeneration scene, I wondered if all previous incarnations would get a line. I only counted 10, though, including Eleven's now-internal voice (who got two?). Have I got that wrong?
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Post by shallacatop on Oct 10, 2019 20:16:29 GMT
The Day of the Master was great for what it is. I loved the separate story strands with each of our leads being paired with an incarnation of the Master in Part One and I was actually happy to have them together again in Part Two, despite now being rather fatigued by this TARDIS team. I liked that Helen's strand with Missy was a nice throwback to where we first met her. Eric Roberts does feel like a glorified cameo; I'm not sure if that's because the other two overshadow him or if it's because he doesn't do much other than tie continuity together and share a scene with Paul McGann. He's much better than he was in The Lifeboat and the Deathboat, but I'm not in a rush to hear more from him. Derek Jacobi and Michelle Gomez are absolutely wonderful together and steal the show, I can't wait for more sets with Gomez.
Now, what do I mean about the story being "great for what it is"? Well, what it isn't is where the problem lies. The Ravenous arc almost plays as background in this - I don't think they're very well developed and I just haven't found any of the arc endearing, perhaps less so now it doesn't feel like it's really built up to something. It's weird because The Day of the Master has some brilliant throwbacks to Fairytale of Salzburg and an important element of Doom Coalition. They're seamlessly incorporated into the story, but I feel as though connecting the Salzburg strand to the Ravenous arc doesn't really make me look back on the Ravenous driven stories any better than I do. Unfortunately, I'm just not that interested.
I'm not sure if I have explained myself properly, but it isn't just the Ravenous stuff that I have had an issue with. As I also mentioned, I have become fatigued with the Doctor, Helen and Liv. As a team they don't really seem to have gone anywhere in this series. Liv has mostly just been there to deliver some scathing and sarcastic remarks. Helen was put through the wringer with the Eleven at the end of Doom Coalition and in the first Ravenous set, but it's not really gone anywhere since; she's always been terribly forgiving of him. I did mention in my post about Whispers that I'm also not interested in the Eleven's ongoing story and it feels like he's riding on the success of his stint in Doom Coaliton, though Mark Bonnar was fantastic in his final scene of The Day of the Master. I am interested in getting some more pre-Doom Coalition content in Dark Universe next year, though.
It's not been an awful run of sets. There's been some cracking stories, particularly Fairytale of Salzburg, Companion Piece and Planet of Dust, but I think my lasting memory will be one of fatigue and an arc that didn't do much. It looks like this current TARDIS Team is here to stay for a little while longer. I wonder if the behind the scenes team are too?
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 10, 2019 20:52:51 GMT
IT has just gotten dark and am just finishing off an episode of Gallifrey 6 i tend to not do Dalek stories after dark. Really? I guess that sounds pretty strange to me having grown up having to stay up late to watch DW on public TV. We didn't have daytime Daleks back in my day :-) Can you do Dark Shadows after dark? :-)
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 10, 2019 21:03:42 GMT
Alright... trying to maneuvre this thread without too many spoilers. Yeah, I do not mind spoilers too much, but try to at least keep a little bit of a surprise.
Just spend a wonderful evening with a nice hot cup of tea and my blankie while all the wet and cold was happening outside, listening to the first story. So, "Whisper". Well, yes, this is filler. Very much so. And yes, we had similar stories before.
But. This is wonderfully atmospheric. And in parts, it even gave me this wonderful chill down my spine despite tea and blankie.
And oh my god do I like the character interaction and especially Liv in this.
I get what members like shallacatop are saying. And in a rational level, you are right and I have a hard time arguing with you.
I do not even have real rational points I could make, I am purely talking from an emotional standpoint.
I just love the Eleven, as hammy and ridiculous as the character is. I loved him from the first moment.
And I just really like Liv and Helen.
And as I said before, I have no trouble telling the two apart, however, as I also have said before, I rely on identifying people by their voices on a daily basis since I have so much trouble telling faces apart, so I might just have a special ear for that.
As for the special point of interest in this story, namely the issue that Liv {Spoiler} has a gun. I agree with you guys that it just does not have the impact it should have or is handled in a more serious way. I am totally on the side of Liv in this one, however, and I think it would have been totally in the range of the character to hurt the Eleven. Mind, NOT kill him. There, the characterization was right, she would NEVER do that. But come on, if it had been me (and I have always pretty much identified with Liv), I would have shot the Eleven in the foot. Or the knee. Or the shoulder. Anywhere painful but not deadly. And in any case, death is just timelord for man flu anyways!
I think they really chickened out there. This could have been a bit more intense and severe than what we got in the end.
So in conclusion, yes, I liked the first story. It is not the best or most exciting or deep, but it is a nice start and sets up the character interactions.
But man, do I wish for the Master, any Master, to get their hands on the Eleven for some nice intimate torture scenes. Because I am totally with Liv on that one and this would make me feel vindicated.
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