|
Post by number13 on Aug 15, 2019 0:23:06 GMT
Interesting discussion everyone (again ) and I don't disagree with any of your points about CD/DL from the business viewpoint Davy - but I did wonder about the 'older demographic' and whether the fanbase is really 'old-fashioned'?
It's relative of course and I don't know how representative this forum is of BF's wider customer base, but I'm mid-50s and I get the strong impression that only a handful of DU members are my age or older. And it's new Who material that really puts the strain on BF's server, by and large (Legacy was the spectacular exception to the 'rule'!) which would imply their customer base is mostly younger, primarily new series fans (who of course have the wisdom to discover and enjoy classic Who too, just as I do new Who.)
While 'older' will certainly be true for some fans, I would guess that of all people, 'Doctor Who' fans are some of the least likely to be 'old fashioned' - what is Time to fans of the Time Lord? Surely people whose imaginations have spent decades ranging across all of Space and Time are likely to be among the most accepting of new ideas and new 'stuff'? (Yes, I know the great Jodie row etc., but in the online world, volume is often a measure of sound, not size!)
So I love the speed and convenience of streaming and DLs - but I still love my collections too! Many Who fans are instinctive collectors, so maybe that CD buying demographic is going to be around for a long, long time. Getting the right business model to make CDs viable is the question, but I'm sure it can be done.
When I say "older", forgive me, I'm talking in marketing and polling terms where anyone not in the lucrative 18-35 market is "older" - so I'm certainly not saying BF's fanbase are pushing 60 but I do think I'd disagree that they're mostly younger new series fans. Yeah, the forum is a small sample but a sample nonetheless - but we also have Twitter and Facebook to gauge an average BF-er (I know you don't bother with them) and the fans there also tend to skew "older" (by the over 35 metric again). We also have BF days to look at and that too skews older. Are there lots of BF fans under 36? Yep, I'm one (by only 2 years now....gulp!) but I think you only have to look at what licences BF buy to see what age they're after. Space 1999? Adam Adamant? The Prisoner? They're not targeting the kids by and large. IF I had to guess, based on being a fan and interacting with many others for two decades now I'd say your average BF fan is a white male in his 40s. It would be interesting to see what others think the average BFer "is" though. Might be an interesting thread for one of Nucleus' friday night deep threads! We only have the anecdotal evidence cited above though - forums, social media and live events along with the age of the licences BF attain. That certainly all leads me to my conclusion but ultimately we've got zero idea what the "typical" BF customer is and it's all guess work. For all we know there's a massive silent majority of 8 year old girls buying in their legions but just not talking about it! I'm not sure I'd quite buy that being Who fans makes people open to new things, again I've just seen too many dummies being spat out over a million different things that are "not what Doctor Who is!" for far too many years to really believe that the show being broad-minded influences it's fans. Absolutely the complainers make the most noise but even just looking at high profile members on here over Jodie's casting, Tin Dog wasn't going to watch again and Timelord put his fist through his shed door. That was before she'd even started work! Both quickly changed their minds - which is great - but were initially resistant. And I think that's kinda the point about the CD vs. Digital issue - some people were resistant...until they weren't any more. Maybe They ran out of shelf room due to BF's massively increased output (I remember it used to cost me less than 30 quid a month, now I can't remember the last month it didn't cost about 100! ), international shipping made some overseas customers go digital who would normally like CDs, cost, certain ranges being DL only meaning you HAVE to be digital if you want it all anyway (Short Trips, Originals).....loads of factors are pushing people digitally. And again I think there's a lot of fans who all things being equal would still LIKE to be CD buyers but they just can't. I hope you're right about the CD buying demographic being around for a long time but I'm not quite as optimistic they will be there in sufficient numbers long term. Like I said elsewhere BF also save a lot of money for people ditching CDs, so I don't think it's something Jason will actively be working on. It'd be much easier to ease physical customers to digital than to accommodate CD buyers in the face of changing and diminishing markets. Some will be left behind but if the business is more viable long term....well, that's a sad side effect. There are already people missing out on the digital only ranges. I think they'll be missing out on a lot more long term (post 2023-ish when BF's current CD commitments end. We'll see more and more ranges going into warehouse sales quicker, or being limited editions like Class was. Of course there'll always be a market but as you say, is it a viable one? Only time and numbers (that we won't be privvy too!) will tell but we'll be able to infer from the releases and the schedules in a few years just where BF stand on hard copies. Streaming is also something I think a lot of people are increasingly expecting of their entertainment too, and that may be something for the future too. Spotify royalties are pathetic and I know when asked about it before Nick said a potential BF streaming service would be something he thought was a good idea, maybe with releases over 12 months old, but that the BBC might not like it. It's a kinda interesting subject because it's massively speculative and none of us can really know how right we are - or wrong - for a few years at least. Let's bookmark it and have a good "I told ya so!" in 2025, or so. Thanks for the massive speculation then Davy! (Really, thanks for taking the time for such a full reply and in no way did I take any offence at 'older', so no forgiving required. I can't argue with mathematics or Time. ) True, we'll have to check back in a few years to see what happens to CDs, right around when I'm adding yet another rack of shelving for my ever-expanding BF collection... The 'guess the buyer age from the licences' game is interesting. Let's say your guess is right and 45 is the average BF fan's age (seems reasonable). That means they would have been born around when Jon regenerated into Tom. ("Good grief!" ) And all those new licences are for shows from around that time (mid 70s) or back into the 60s - so either BF's fanbase average is significantly older than 45, (which seems unlikely if DU is even slightly representative), or else Who fans like action adventure with a dash of fantasy and shows of that type enjoyed their first peak in the 60s/70s?
Oh well, it will ultimately be a business decision. I will go on buying CDs for as long as I can; for ranges where I can't buy CDs, if I like a DL-only range (STs, the Originals) I will buy it as DLs. It would be difficult, I think, to swap a range to DL-only partway through, collectors being what we are. So I think the MR and 4DAs at least are likely to remain all-CD ranges, but I don't want to follow that line of reasoning because it's much much too depressing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 0:49:52 GMT
When I say "older", forgive me, I'm talking in marketing and polling terms where anyone not in the lucrative 18-35 market is "older" - so I'm certainly not saying BF's fanbase are pushing 60 but I do think I'd disagree that they're mostly younger new series fans. Yeah, the forum is a small sample but a sample nonetheless - but we also have Twitter and Facebook to gauge an average BF-er (I know you don't bother with them) and the fans there also tend to skew "older" (by the over 35 metric again). We also have BF days to look at and that too skews older. Are there lots of BF fans under 36? Yep, I'm one (by only 2 years now....gulp!) but I think you only have to look at what licences BF buy to see what age they're after. Space 1999? Adam Adamant? The Prisoner? They're not targeting the kids by and large. IF I had to guess, based on being a fan and interacting with many others for two decades now I'd say your average BF fan is a white male in his 40s. It would be interesting to see what others think the average BFer "is" though. Might be an interesting thread for one of Nucleus' friday night deep threads! We only have the anecdotal evidence cited above though - forums, social media and live events along with the age of the licences BF attain. That certainly all leads me to my conclusion but ultimately we've got zero idea what the "typical" BF customer is and it's all guess work. For all we know there's a massive silent majority of 8 year old girls buying in their legions but just not talking about it! I'm not sure I'd quite buy that being Who fans makes people open to new things, again I've just seen too many dummies being spat out over a million different things that are "not what Doctor Who is!" for far too many years to really believe that the show being broad-minded influences it's fans. Absolutely the complainers make the most noise but even just looking at high profile members on here over Jodie's casting, Tin Dog wasn't going to watch again and Timelord put his fist through his shed door. That was before she'd even started work! Both quickly changed their minds - which is great - but were initially resistant. And I think that's kinda the point about the CD vs. Digital issue - some people were resistant...until they weren't any more. Maybe They ran out of shelf room due to BF's massively increased output (I remember it used to cost me less than 30 quid a month, now I can't remember the last month it didn't cost about 100! ), international shipping made some overseas customers go digital who would normally like CDs, cost, certain ranges being DL only meaning you HAVE to be digital if you want it all anyway (Short Trips, Originals).....loads of factors are pushing people digitally. And again I think there's a lot of fans who all things being equal would still LIKE to be CD buyers but they just can't. I hope you're right about the CD buying demographic being around for a long time but I'm not quite as optimistic they will be there in sufficient numbers long term. Like I said elsewhere BF also save a lot of money for people ditching CDs, so I don't think it's something Jason will actively be working on. It'd be much easier to ease physical customers to digital than to accommodate CD buyers in the face of changing and diminishing markets. Some will be left behind but if the business is more viable long term....well, that's a sad side effect. There are already people missing out on the digital only ranges. I think they'll be missing out on a lot more long term (post 2023-ish when BF's current CD commitments end. We'll see more and more ranges going into warehouse sales quicker, or being limited editions like Class was. Of course there'll always be a market but as you say, is it a viable one? Only time and numbers (that we won't be privvy too!) will tell but we'll be able to infer from the releases and the schedules in a few years just where BF stand on hard copies. Streaming is also something I think a lot of people are increasingly expecting of their entertainment too, and that may be something for the future too. Spotify royalties are pathetic and I know when asked about it before Nick said a potential BF streaming service would be something he thought was a good idea, maybe with releases over 12 months old, but that the BBC might not like it. It's a kinda interesting subject because it's massively speculative and none of us can really know how right we are - or wrong - for a few years at least. Let's bookmark it and have a good "I told ya so!" in 2025, or so. Thanks for the massive speculation then Davy! (Really, thanks for taking the time for such a full reply and in no way did I take any offence at 'older', so no forgiving required. I can't argue with mathematics or Time. ) True, we'll have to check back in a few years to see what happens to CDs, right around when I'm adding yet another rack of shelving for my ever-expanding BF collection... The 'guess the buyer age from the licences' game is interesting. Let's say your guess is right and 45 is the average BF fan's age (seems reasonable). That means they would have been born around when Jon regenerated into Tom. ("Good grief!" ) And all those new licences are for shows from around that time (mid 70s) or back into the 60s - so either BF's fanbase average is significantly older than 45, (which seems unlikely if DU is even slightly representative), or else Who fans like action adventure with a dash of fantasy and shows of that type enjoyed their first peak in the 60s/70s?
Oh well, it will ultimately be a business decision. I will go on buying CDs for as long as I can; for ranges where I can't buy CDs, if I like a DL-only range (STs, the Originals) I will buy it as DLs. It would be difficult, I think, to swap a range to DL-only partway through, collectors being what we are. So I think the MR and 4DAs at least are likely to remain all-CD ranges, but I don't want to follow that line of reasoning because it's much much too depressing.
No, thanks, it's a good discussion and taking the time for detailed responses deserves the same in kind. I guess as to why part of BF's fandom not being quite the same age as some of the shows they love is that we're almost all here from generations who grew up with only a few channels, and plenty of repeats. So as a kid and teen, I got my love Gerry Anderson, The Prisoner, Doctor Who, Hammer, Amicus, and more through that route - it was on one of only 4 channels. So I guess there's an element of, say, over 30s being more open to older cult TV and film because when we first saw it...we didn't know it was older, or didn't mind - it was that or....I dunno....Wicker's Way. There isn't really that route for younger people now - you won't get 60s THunderbirds on BBC2 primetime now, or The Prisoner on Channel 4 on Friday nights when the pub closes. To get that stuff now as a younger person...someone would probably need to be "into" cult stuff already and seek it out. I think it'd be harder to just stumble onto it as a lot of us did, so I think it'd be less likely for any younger person to be even aware of, say, Space 1999 (since it's news) than it would be even compared to someone of my generation as we got Stingray, Scarlet and Thunderbirds repeats all the time. So although it was 25 years old then (now 50.....God help us!) it was still promoted as new to us. And getting into that as a kid led me to the other Andersons which is how I got into S1999, UFO, Terrahawks etc. Essentially it was a short leap for me to get into "older" things but I think someone growing up now would find it a much wider gap with the onus very much on the "new" and having hundreds of channels and straming services, gaming and whatnot instead so I think they'd be less likely to find much of interest with BF. Of course the new series licence will have got some younger people in, which is great, but in what numbers....only BF knows. We haven't seen many come just for the new stuff on here and I don't see many on Facebook. Indeed when the official Doctor Who page posts BF news it tends to be a lot of "Oh, it's only audio" "Why isn't this on TV?" answers. It'd be nice to see BF appeal to all sorts of different groups and find niches that, though small, would work for them. I'm not sure young people have a taste for audio drama quite so much but things like "new David Tennant adventures!" will get at least some in, I've no doubt.
|
|
lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
|
Post by lidar2 on Aug 15, 2019 8:05:51 GMT
Thanks for the massive speculation then Davy! (Really, thanks for taking the time for such a full reply and in no way did I take any offence at 'older', so no forgiving required. I can't argue with mathematics or Time. ) True, we'll have to check back in a few years to see what happens to CDs, right around when I'm adding yet another rack of shelving for my ever-expanding BF collection... The 'guess the buyer age from the licences' game is interesting. Let's say your guess is right and 45 is the average BF fan's age (seems reasonable). That means they would have been born around when Jon regenerated into Tom. ("Good grief!" ) And all those new licences are for shows from around that time (mid 70s) or back into the 60s - so either BF's fanbase average is significantly older than 45, (which seems unlikely if DU is even slightly representative), or else Who fans like action adventure with a dash of fantasy and shows of that type enjoyed their first peak in the 60s/70s?
Oh well, it will ultimately be a business decision. I will go on buying CDs for as long as I can; for ranges where I can't buy CDs, if I like a DL-only range (STs, the Originals) I will buy it as DLs. It would be difficult, I think, to swap a range to DL-only partway through, collectors being what we are. So I think the MR and 4DAs at least are likely to remain all-CD ranges, but I don't want to follow that line of reasoning because it's much much too depressing.
No, thanks, it's a good discussion and taking the time for detailed responses deserves the same in kind. I guess as to why part of BF's fandom not being quite the same age as some of the shows they love is that we're almost all here from generations who grew up with only a few channels, and plenty of repeats. So as a kid and teen, I got my love Gerry Anderson, The Prisoner, Doctor Who, Hammer, Amicus, and more through that route - it was on one of only 4 channels. So I guess there's an element of, say, over 30s being more open to older cult TV and film because when we first saw it...we didn't know it was older, or didn't mind - it was that or....I dunno....Wicker's Way. There isn't really that route for younger people now - you won't get 60s THunderbirds on BBC2 primetime now, or The Prisoner on Channel 4 on Friday nights when the pub closes. To get that stuff now as a younger person...someone would probably need to be "into" cult stuff already and seek it out. I think it'd be harder to just stumble onto it as a lot of us did, so I think it'd be less likely for any younger person to be even aware of, say, Space 1999 (since it's news) than it would be even compared to someone of my generation as we got Stingray, Scarlet and Thunderbirds repeats all the time. So although it was 25 years old then (now 50.....God help us!) it was still promoted as new to us. And getting into that as a kid led me to the other Andersons which is how I got into S1999, UFO, Terrahawks etc. Essentially it was a short leap for me to get into "older" things but I think someone growing up now would find it a much wider gap with the onus very much on the "new" and having hundreds of channels and straming services, gaming and whatnot instead so I think they'd be less likely to find much of interest with BF. Of course the new series licence will have got some younger people in, which is great, but in what numbers....only BF knows. We haven't seen many come just for the new stuff on here and I don't see many on Facebook. Indeed when the official Doctor Who page posts BF news it tends to be a lot of "Oh, it's only audio" "Why isn't this on TV?" answers. It'd be nice to see BF appeal to all sorts of different groups and find niches that, though small, would work for them. I'm not sure young people have a taste for audio drama quite so much but things like "new David Tennant adventures!" will get at least some in, I've no doubt. I am slightly older than you, 42 last birthday, and I first got into DW in the 1980s when it was still on TV. In those days there were very few repeats of any kind of cult TV and if there were any they were on channel 4 way past my bedtime. In those days of no internet and no repeats my only exposure to other cult TV, aside from Red Dwarf and Star Trek movies, was TV Zone which I started buying in 1989 with issue 1. I bought it for DW and ST but read articles on other shows and became aware of them that way. But even then there was no way to watch them unless they came out on VHS.
Star Trek and TNG were coming out on VHS at that time, 2 episodes per tape for £9.99, so the cost was prohibitive based on my pocket money and the £4.80 a week I got for my paper round. For a young person getting into cult TV today there is so much more information to devour about whatever piques their interest and season box sets can be bought on DVD or streamed for a fraction of the VHS price. So on the one hand a teenager getting into cult TV nowadays has access to so much more content at affordable prices, but on the other hand without general cult TV magazines like TV Zone or Dreamwatch they are much less likely to have their interest piqued in the first place.
Plus the fact that TV from the 60s/70s/80s is so different from what they watch today - slower paced, unconvincing effects and sets, poor picture quality, black & white, the lack of story arcs, the jump between video in the studio and film on location, etc. - combined with shorter attention spans creates a barrier to watching older shows for a lot of younger people today, that wasn't there to anything like the same extent for my generation watching the same 60s/70s/80s programmes for the first time in the 1990s. My children have no concept of the idea of TV as a one-off, unlikely to be repeated, experience. The idea of having to wait a whole week for the next episode is alien to them. I had far more knowledge of the world and current affairs at aged 8 than my son because we had one TV in the sitting room and Dad put the news on at 6 o'clock and that was that.
Why am I saying all this? Basically to agree with the point that a lot of BF's franchises - probably all of them bar DW - will generally appeal to an older demographic with younger listeners under 30 the exception.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 8:51:34 GMT
No, thanks, it's a good discussion and taking the time for detailed responses deserves the same in kind. I guess as to why part of BF's fandom not being quite the same age as some of the shows they love is that we're almost all here from generations who grew up with only a few channels, and plenty of repeats. So as a kid and teen, I got my love Gerry Anderson, The Prisoner, Doctor Who, Hammer, Amicus, and more through that route - it was on one of only 4 channels. So I guess there's an element of, say, over 30s being more open to older cult TV and film because when we first saw it...we didn't know it was older, or didn't mind - it was that or....I dunno....Wicker's Way. There isn't really that route for younger people now - you won't get 60s THunderbirds on BBC2 primetime now, or The Prisoner on Channel 4 on Friday nights when the pub closes. To get that stuff now as a younger person...someone would probably need to be "into" cult stuff already and seek it out. I think it'd be harder to just stumble onto it as a lot of us did, so I think it'd be less likely for any younger person to be even aware of, say, Space 1999 (since it's news) than it would be even compared to someone of my generation as we got Stingray, Scarlet and Thunderbirds repeats all the time. So although it was 25 years old then (now 50.....God help us!) it was still promoted as new to us. And getting into that as a kid led me to the other Andersons which is how I got into S1999, UFO, Terrahawks etc. Essentially it was a short leap for me to get into "older" things but I think someone growing up now would find it a much wider gap with the onus very much on the "new" and having hundreds of channels and straming services, gaming and whatnot instead so I think they'd be less likely to find much of interest with BF. Of course the new series licence will have got some younger people in, which is great, but in what numbers....only BF knows. We haven't seen many come just for the new stuff on here and I don't see many on Facebook. Indeed when the official Doctor Who page posts BF news it tends to be a lot of "Oh, it's only audio" "Why isn't this on TV?" answers. It'd be nice to see BF appeal to all sorts of different groups and find niches that, though small, would work for them. I'm not sure young people have a taste for audio drama quite so much but things like "new David Tennant adventures!" will get at least some in, I've no doubt. I am slightly older than you, 42 last birthday, and I first got into DW in the 1980s when it was still on TV. In those days there were very few repeats of any kind of cult TV and if there were any they were on channel 4 way past my bedtime. In those days of no internet and no repeats my only exposure to other cult TV, aside from Red Dwarf and Star Trek movies, was TV Zone which I started buying in 1989 with issue 1. I bought it for DW and ST but read articles on other shows and became aware of them that way. But even then there was no way to watch them unless they came out on VHS.
Star Trek and TNG were coming out on VHS at that time, 2 episodes per tape for £9.99, so the cost was prohibitive based on my pocket money and the £4.80 a week I got for my paper round. For a young person getting into cult TV today there is so much more information to devour about whatever piques their interest and season box sets can be bought on DVD or streamed for a fraction of the VHS price. So on the one hand a teenager getting into cult TV nowadays has access to so much more content at affordable prices, but on the other hand without general cult TV magazines like TV Zone or Dreamwatch they are much less likely to have their interest piqued in the first place.
Plus the fact that TV from the 60s/70s/80s is so different from what they watch today - slower paced, unconvincing effects and sets, poor picture quality, black & white, the lack of story arcs, the jump between video in the studio and film on location, etc. - combined with shorter attention spans creates a barrier to watching older shows for a lot of younger people today, that wasn't there to anything like the same extent for my generation watching the same 60s/70s/80s programmes for the first time in the 1990s. My children have no concept of the idea of TV as a one-off, unlikely to be repeated, experience. The idea of having to wait a whole week for the next episode is alien to them. I had far more knowledge of the world and current affairs at aged 8 than my son because we had one TV in the sitting room and Dad put the news on at 6 o'clock and that was that.
Why am I saying all this? Basically to agree with the point that a lot of BF's franchises - probably all of them bar DW - will generally appeal to an older demographic with younger listeners under 30 the exception.
Interesting to note here, these old experiences haven't disappeared so much as transmogrified. Live television can now be found through livestreams and radio plays exist in the form of podcasts on Bandcamp or Soundcloud. So, we've actually gone and shot the moon, now television is to streaming (and streaming-related services) what radio is to television. But, there are still immutable links to its ancestors. A good example of what the shift in medium can do is Desert Bus for Hope. A non-stop, consecutive five-day streaming event where donations go to Child's Play charity. They've raised over 4 million through their event over the decade. Chunks of content eventually becomes available in their archive, but the full-length experience is otherwise a one-time event. I'd say one of the biggest development that separates each stage -- radio -> television -> internet -- from the other has been audience participation. Particularly, with regards to the internet, the unpredictable and often bizarre process of metamorphosis knowledge of a programme can undergo through mimesis ("LONDON 1965"). It's an entirely new form of pop culture, which means that cult shows tend to pop up in the weirdest places. A cross-pollination of Sword Art Online Abridged fans and Doctor Who fans has lead fans to point out that the "microcephalic adipate" line in the former bears a strong resemblance to a similar line in Timelash from the latter. Fans are still marketing these cult series, but the means, (memes) and methods are indeed radically different now.
|
|
|
Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Aug 15, 2019 9:30:06 GMT
I am 44 in 2 weeks time (funnily enough my brother will too !).. I still have my store bought original video's, 8 tracks, cassettes, vinyls, cd, dvd's, blurays, comics, novels from as early as 1980 up till last week. I remember when the tv network would film all 22-26 episodes and show them all every week regardless of any big world event (other than the death of a Royal/Prime Minister/President/Terrorist attack). The mad rush to do what u had to do in the 2.5 min commercial break (go to the toilet/grab some food), because there was no real taping until the earlyish/mid 80's on video- no internet- no social media for "FIRST! SPOILERS!".. If you missed out, you missed out. I literally bought this new house mainly because the shed/garage is so big it's being converted next week to store all my stuff. A few people on this Forum have seen pictures of it and they are amazed, it's literally another house . I don't mind paying a few extra dollars for every release that's on cd, I see it as an investment to hand down to my son later on in life. <Old Man Reminiscing/Rant over LOL>
|
|
lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
|
Post by lidar2 on Aug 16, 2019 11:20:43 GMT
Ref today's warehouse sale ....
Jason has obviously been reading this thread!
|
|
|
Post by Ela on Aug 16, 2019 20:10:27 GMT
Yeah, I don’t know how anyone outside of Big Finish really knows how old, or young, their customer base really is. I don't know how even Big Finish would know that. It's not as though you have to tell your age to purchase something.
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Aug 16, 2019 20:26:33 GMT
Yeah, I don’t know how anyone outside of Big Finish really knows how old, or young, their customer base really is. I don't know how even Big Finish would know that. It's not as though you have to tell your age to purchase something. Haven’t they done the occasional customer survey and wasn’t age group one of the questions?
|
|
|
Post by Ela on Aug 16, 2019 20:43:59 GMT
I don't know how even Big Finish would know that. It's not as though you have to tell your age to purchase something. Haven’t they done the occasional customer survey and wasn’t age group one of the questions? Maybe. Can't remember. I never participated in one. But if they did, it would only be accurate for those who were both willing to respond and give their correct age. So a snapshot of those responding, at best. Might give them a ballpark figure I guess. Can't remember them having done this very recently, though.
|
|
mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,081
|
Post by mbt66 on Aug 16, 2019 21:02:55 GMT
Haven’t they done the occasional customer survey and wasn’t age group one of the questions? Maybe. Can't remember. I never participated in one. But if they did, it would only be accurate for those who were both willing to respond and give their correct age. So a snapshot of those responding, at best. Might give them a ballpark figure I guess. Can't remember them having done this very recently, though. I remember doing a survey for Big Finish several years back and I remember being disappointed with the questions they asked.
|
|
|
Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Aug 16, 2019 21:58:23 GMT
Yeah, it was about 6-8 years ago the survey.
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Aug 17, 2019 22:01:13 GMT
Thanks for the massive speculation then Davy! (Really, thanks for taking the time for such a full reply and in no way did I take any offence at 'older', so no forgiving required. I can't argue with mathematics or Time. ) True, we'll have to check back in a few years to see what happens to CDs, right around when I'm adding yet another rack of shelving for my ever-expanding BF collection... The 'guess the buyer age from the licences' game is interesting. Let's say your guess is right and 45 is the average BF fan's age (seems reasonable). That means they would have been born around when Jon regenerated into Tom. ("Good grief!" ) And all those new licences are for shows from around that time (mid 70s) or back into the 60s - so either BF's fanbase average is significantly older than 45, (which seems unlikely if DU is even slightly representative), or else Who fans like action adventure with a dash of fantasy and shows of that type enjoyed their first peak in the 60s/70s?
Oh well, it will ultimately be a business decision. I will go on buying CDs for as long as I can; for ranges where I can't buy CDs, if I like a DL-only range (STs, the Originals) I will buy it as DLs. It would be difficult, I think, to swap a range to DL-only partway through, collectors being what we are. So I think the MR and 4DAs at least are likely to remain all-CD ranges, but I don't want to follow that line of reasoning because it's much much too depressing.
No, thanks, it's a good discussion and taking the time for detailed responses deserves the same in kind. I guess as to why part of BF's fandom not being quite the same age as some of the shows they love is that we're almost all here from generations who grew up with only a few channels, and plenty of repeats. So as a kid and teen, I got my love Gerry Anderson, The Prisoner, Doctor Who, Hammer, Amicus, and more through that route - it was on one of only 4 channels. So I guess there's an element of, say, over 30s being more open to older cult TV and film because when we first saw it...we didn't know it was older, or didn't mind - it was that or....I dunno....Wicker's Way. There isn't really that route for younger people now - you won't get 60s THunderbirds on BBC2 primetime now, or The Prisoner on Channel 4 on Friday nights when the pub closes. To get that stuff now as a younger person...someone would probably need to be "into" cult stuff already and seek it out. I think it'd be harder to just stumble onto it as a lot of us did, so I think it'd be less likely for any younger person to be even aware of, say, Space 1999 (since it's news) than it would be even compared to someone of my generation as we got Stingray, Scarlet and Thunderbirds repeats all the time. So although it was 25 years old then (now 50.....God help us!) it was still promoted as new to us. And getting into that as a kid led me to the other Andersons which is how I got into S1999, UFO, Terrahawks etc. Essentially it was a short leap for me to get into "older" things but I think someone growing up now would find it a much wider gap with the onus very much on the "new" and having hundreds of channels and straming services, gaming and whatnot instead so I think they'd be less likely to find much of interest with BF. Of course the new series licence will have got some younger people in, which is great, but in what numbers....only BF knows. We haven't seen many come just for the new stuff on here and I don't see many on Facebook. Indeed when the official Doctor Who page posts BF news it tends to be a lot of "Oh, it's only audio" "Why isn't this on TV?" answers. It'd be nice to see BF appeal to all sorts of different groups and find niches that, though small, would work for them. I'm not sure young people have a taste for audio drama quite so much but things like "new David Tennant adventures!" will get at least some in, I've no doubt. Sorry for the delay in replying Davy, I sort of lost the thread. That all makes perfect sense, I discovered the ITC classics through repeats in the 1970s and even the early 80s now I think about it. I know I had my first viewings of Thunderbirds on Sunday dinnertimes and the viewing angle wasn't great round the corner of the table but I made sure I watched them! Space 1999 was similarly mid-day on Sundays I think, and the live action serials like 'The Avengers' were lateish-night repeats when I was older. It's in much the same way that many fans of Test Match cricket say they became fans while at school because in the summer holidays there was nothing on TV in the daytime except the Test Match and so...
Hard to think that so much more choice can be a bad thing in some ways but maybe this is one way; we're losing the common cultural experiences that came with having only a few channels. Having said that, I'll take my choices from the huge range on offer and be grateful for them, and to BF for keeping the flame of the classics alive, with a bit of updating sometimes. I'm really looking forward to hearing where Guy Adams has taken the next of the action classics to come to BF.
(It was 'W hicker's World'. 'Wicker's Way' would be the spin-off presented by Lord Summerisle )
EDIT: And thanks also lidar, Wolfie and aussie, interesting posts all on what has turned into a fascinating thread.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 2:57:12 GMT
No, thanks, it's a good discussion and taking the time for detailed responses deserves the same in kind. I guess as to why part of BF's fandom not being quite the same age as some of the shows they love is that we're almost all here from generations who grew up with only a few channels, and plenty of repeats. So as a kid and teen, I got my love Gerry Anderson, The Prisoner, Doctor Who, Hammer, Amicus, and more through that route - it was on one of only 4 channels. So I guess there's an element of, say, over 30s being more open to older cult TV and film because when we first saw it...we didn't know it was older, or didn't mind - it was that or....I dunno....Wicker's Way. There isn't really that route for younger people now - you won't get 60s THunderbirds on BBC2 primetime now, or The Prisoner on Channel 4 on Friday nights when the pub closes. To get that stuff now as a younger person...someone would probably need to be "into" cult stuff already and seek it out. I think it'd be harder to just stumble onto it as a lot of us did, so I think it'd be less likely for any younger person to be even aware of, say, Space 1999 (since it's news) than it would be even compared to someone of my generation as we got Stingray, Scarlet and Thunderbirds repeats all the time. So although it was 25 years old then (now 50.....God help us!) it was still promoted as new to us. And getting into that as a kid led me to the other Andersons which is how I got into S1999, UFO, Terrahawks etc. Essentially it was a short leap for me to get into "older" things but I think someone growing up now would find it a much wider gap with the onus very much on the "new" and having hundreds of channels and straming services, gaming and whatnot instead so I think they'd be less likely to find much of interest with BF. Of course the new series licence will have got some younger people in, which is great, but in what numbers....only BF knows. We haven't seen many come just for the new stuff on here and I don't see many on Facebook. Indeed when the official Doctor Who page posts BF news it tends to be a lot of "Oh, it's only audio" "Why isn't this on TV?" answers. It'd be nice to see BF appeal to all sorts of different groups and find niches that, though small, would work for them. I'm not sure young people have a taste for audio drama quite so much but things like "new David Tennant adventures!" will get at least some in, I've no doubt. Sorry for the delay in replying Davy, I sort of lost the thread. That all makes perfect sense, I discovered the ITC classics through repeats in the 1970s and even the early 80s now I think about it. I know I had my first viewings of Thunderbirds on Sunday dinnertimes and the viewing angle wasn't great round the corner of the table but I made sure I watched them! Space 1999 was similarly mid-day on Sundays I think, and the live action serials like 'The Avengers' were lateish-night repeats when I was older. It's in much the same way that many fans of Test Match cricket say they became fans while at school because in the summer holidays there was nothing on TV in the daytime except the Test Match and so... Hard to think that so much more choice can be a bad thing in some ways but maybe this is one way; we're losing the common cultural experiences that came with having only a few channels. Having said that, I'll take my choices from the huge range on offer and be grateful for them, and to BF for keeping the flame of the classics alive, with a bit of updating sometimes. I'm really looking forward to hearing where Guy Adams has taken the next of the action classics to come to BF. (It was 'W hicker's World'. 'Wicker's Way' would be the spin-off presented by Lord Summerisle ) EDIT: And thanks also lidar, Wolfie and aussie, interesting posts all on what has turned into a fascinating thread.
No worries! Now that television is beginning to be sidelined by streaming services, I can only guess what cult media is going to look like going into the future. I grew up learning about Thunderbirds and The Avengers through repeats on early morning television or, in some cases, on VHS. I've still got tapes of The Uninvited and Murdersville lurking around somewhere. Streaming and the internet has opened up so many new possibilities, we wouldn't be here without it, but the lack of a regimented programming schedule means that word-of-mouth is king as to what gets seen or doesn't. Happenstance viewing isn't a casual flick of the channels, but a deliberate press of the button. Consequently, television series such as Danger Man or Granada's Sherlock Holmes are starting to occupy that same space as Vincent Price's The Saint radio plays. I think we're starting to get to the point where not just the productions are cult, but the medium itself is starting to occupy that space as well. Being raised on television with all its little quirks and ideosyncracies is becoming nostalgic. For instance, in online videos that use VHS filters to simulate the fidelity of old tapes. There's a show out there where the flashbacks are in 4:3 instead of 16:9. It's becoming stylistic. The question for cult media now is how do you articulate that and make it accessible to people who have grown up absorbing entertainment in an entirely different way? How do you pastiche/homage a medium? Not just as an in-joke, but as one that can be freely shared. To use a personal example: This bumper, for all intents and purposes, is a random 10-second graphic. Not particularly interesting, not particularly memorable. However, for Australian viewers growing up with the 2003 reruns (tagging in Whovitt ) this is our childhood. For three years at 6:00pm, this is what we saw for every new episode of Doctor Who. It's inextricably tied to those opening titles as much as the BBC ident is for UK viewers. And, even as someone who's never grown up with that circling Earth, I can still sense the texture -- so to speak -- of that little intro. So, it's an interesting trick, but it's not impossible. The smoke can go back into the lamp, if just the right set of notes are hit.
|
|
lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
|
Post by lidar2 on Sept 5, 2019 14:38:58 GMT
On the subject of CDs becoming redundant ...
One MP due to retire at next election, Labour's Stephen Pound, is giving away his CD collection in Parliament. Wonder if he has any BF in it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 8:59:32 GMT
I am proudly part of the 40%. Me too!!!
|
|