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Post by tuigirl on Oct 6, 2019 11:51:44 GMT
This would be great material to explore further. As we have seen in the Kingmaker, {Spoiler} when the Doctor is drunk, his telepathic control becomes complete gibberish.Maybe the reason we do not see him drunk very often.
For example.
It would be a great idea for a) a villain to exploit in planting maybe subconscious suggestions- maybe something along the lines of Inception?
or b) in general exploring the subconscious of the Doctor a bit more.
There's definitely always more room to explore, but I think you'd love Timewyrm: Revelation. It's all about exploring the inner workings of the Doctor's mind as its taken over by a hostile intelligence. The NAs did its fair share of dabbling in that area, come to think of it. A large chunk of Lungbarrow only happened because the Doctor's dreams and anxieties actually bled over into his companion, Chris. It kind of makes me wonder how much of what happened in The Edge of Destruction was unknowingly from the TARDIS and how much was unknowingly from its occupants. Haha, very much to explore if I should ever find the time to actually read more...
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Post by Digi on Oct 6, 2019 14:29:03 GMT
1)Didn’t know where he would end up. I think we have too much Tardis control. There is a lot in this thread that I vehemently disagree with. But this? This I completely agree on. I love how the early DW years feature them really not knowing where they're going to end up next.
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Post by elkawho on Oct 7, 2019 14:08:29 GMT
As The Tardis tells him in The Doctor's Wife, I may not take you where you want to go, but I always take you where you need to go. (paraphrasing, I believe)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 14:56:05 GMT
As The Tardis tells him in The Doctor's Wife, I may not take you where you want to go, but I always take you where you need to go. (paraphrasing, I believe) possibly. but did the viewers really need explained to them by a writer? my preference would be to let the viewers' imaginations soar of their own accord. every time a writer decides to explain something it takes away some of the beauty of the show's format. think about how much mysteriousness has been lost from the show from the earliest of days.... then again, the show needs to evolve and if writers want to nail down every bit of mystery with some of their ideas who are we to stop them. HOWEVER remember what Cartmel wanted to do when he took the reins.. reintroduce some mystery. Writers need to be aware it is their responsibility to continue the appeal of the show, not just leave their own mark on it. Am all for mystery is there any mystery left?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 15:08:25 GMT
Am all for mystery is there any mystery left? I struggle to find any. I feel as though the Doctor has become far too knowledgable, powerful and almost infallible since the series returned to TV. I think that's why I prefer my classic Doctors on Big Finish audio. It's still an adventure with them. Well i still find him mysterious because he is now a she 🤪 unlimited regenerations-so immortal,they get boring those type of characters just like Jack. I like my Doctor very much the way BF portrays them and their writers.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 15:13:29 GMT
As The Tardis tells him in The Doctor's Wife, I may not take you where you want to go, but I always take you where you need to go. (paraphrasing, I believe) Yes but that was a TARDIS that didnt know that PULL TO OPEN referred to the telephone NOT the Main doors can it be trusted? 😂🤪
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 15:51:51 GMT
As The Tardis tells him in The Doctor's Wife, I may not take you where you want to go, but I always take you where you need to go. (paraphrasing, I believe) possibly. but did the viewers really need explained to them by a writer? my preference would be to let the viewers' imaginations soar of their own accord. every time a writer decides to explain something it takes away some of the beauty of the show's format. think about how much mysteriousness has been lost from the show from the earliest of days.... then again, the show needs to evolve and if writers want to nail down every bit of mystery with some of their ideas who are we to stop them. HOWEVER remember what Cartmel wanted to do when he took the reins.. reintroduce some mystery. Writers need to be aware it is their responsibility to continue the appeal of the show, not just leave their own mark on it. I try not to take that line from the Doctor's wife too literally. To my ears it was a retort from Idris to the Doctor's remark that she was unreliable - a sort of "Alright, maybe I am. Maybe you didn't end up where you wanted to go, but you ALWAYS made a difference in the places we ended up anyway." And who is to say that in between the TV episodes of the new series the Tardis was still unreliable and didn't arrive in the places where the Ninth or the Tenth or the Eleventh or the Twelfth or the Thirteenth Doctor wanted to go?
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Post by mrperson on Oct 7, 2019 19:55:03 GMT
...when the TARDIS was a machine (and if living, utterly alien). (But the story separately just didn't do much for me).
I suppose this is a way of saying there's a popular nu who episode I don't like: The Doctor's Wife. Beyond thinking it was a strange/silly idea, it is one of those episodes that something irks me about that I can't ignore entirely. So, it's supposed to be some super-being whose consciousness exists across all of its times simultaneously. I think there was some line about it being an 11 or 13-dimensional being. The trouble is...now amount of sci-fi/sci-fantasy unlogic will get me past the flaw here: you simply could not function in three spatial dimensions and a uni-directional fourth dimension of time if you were just transfered into a tiny body capable of that....from an unspeakably complex machine that held your consciousness with....well, whatever types of dimensions were supposed to be.
Remember, unlike the sci-fi misuse, a "dimension" is not a where. It is a direction in which existence can happen. Length, height, width. And whatever this time thing is (assuming....assuming it's not just another spatial dimension and we merely perceive it as a different type of thing we call "time" because we can only move along it in one direction, but anyway).
You cannot possibly imagine being ripped from a body that perceives three spatial directions and appears capable of only moving one way in time and put into a body that exists with one spatial dimension only: a timeless line, be it height, length, or width. Or, hey, a line plus a temporal dimension.
It's one of those things that irks me a bit.
Oh right, and by definition there is no "outside the universe" - it's as much of a logically incoherent and thus meaningless idea as a "before" the universe - and a dimensionless void wouldn't be dimensionless void if there was a planet in it that existed in 3 spatial dimensions and time.
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Post by mrperson on Oct 7, 2019 19:56:44 GMT
On the upside: I did _not_ prefer the day when the companions, particularly the female ones, were mainly occupied with falling down because they weren't looking where they were running, screaming, and asking stupid questions.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Oct 7, 2019 21:24:38 GMT
When was the last time the TARDIS landed somewhere unintentionally random (as opposed to the Doctor choosing to go somewhere random)? All of the thirteenth Doctor’s trips were intentional. Was it Wizard’s Apprentice? He didn’t know he was on Skaro when he met boy Davros.
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Post by sherlock on Oct 7, 2019 21:34:42 GMT
When was the last time the TARDIS landed somewhere unintentionally random (as opposed to the Doctor choosing to go somewhere random)? All of the thirteenth Doctor’s trips were intentional. Was it Wizard’s Apprentice? He didn’t know he was on Skaro when he met boy Davros. Not all of them, in Rosa they’re meant to going back to Sheffield and it’s mentioned that there’s been numerous previous failed attempts to get there before hand.
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Post by polly on Oct 7, 2019 21:45:35 GMT
1. Also the Obvious
2. When history was treated with wonder, and danger. Not as a playground backdrop for exactly the same nonsense you'd get in the present or future. For example, it drives me absolutely crazy how you have have a lizard woman running about Victorian London telling all an' sundry she's married to a woman and getting little more than the occasional "Good Lord!" I don't buy it. That shit would never fly in something like The Aztecs.
3. When the Master was a suave Bond villain and not a cartoon moron. Granted, this started before NuWho but good gravy, it's been a rocky road since Beevers' Crispy Master.
4. When stories had time to be told. More often than not, 50 minutes is not enough and leads to rushed conclusions, leaps of logic, lack of detail and verisimilitude.
5. When the Doctor didn't know everything. A lot of the time in the modern series, he arrives somewhere and just goes "A-ha!" like Alan Partridge, rattles off exposition, and solves the problem. This doesn't happen all the time, but far more often than I'd like. I prefer when he has to grapple with something new. When he is an explorer and not a tour guide. He is a genius, yes, but use that genius to deduce and not to recite.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 21:56:10 GMT
1. Also the Obvious 2. When history was treated with wonder, and danger. Not as a playground backdrop for exactly the same nonsense you'd get in the present or future. For example, it drives me absolutely crazy how you have have a lizard woman running about Victorian London telling all an' sundry she's married to a woman and getting little more than the occasional "Good Lord!" I don't buy it. That shit would never fly in something like The Aztecs. Rosa.
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Post by polly on Oct 7, 2019 22:09:03 GMT
1. Also the Obvious 2. When history was treated with wonder, and danger. Not as a playground backdrop for exactly the same nonsense you'd get in the present or future. For example, it drives me absolutely crazy how you have have a lizard woman running about Victorian London telling all an' sundry she's married to a woman and getting little more than the occasional "Good Lord!" I don't buy it. That shit would never fly in something like The Aztecs. Rosa. Respectfully, I prefer not to watch Jodie.
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zebediahdoe
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Post by zebediahdoe on Oct 7, 2019 22:24:28 GMT
4. When stories had time to be told. More often than not, 50 minutes is not enough and leads to rushed conclusions, leaps of logic, lack of detail and verisimilitude. Yes! The 50 minute episodes never really work for me as well as that perfect 4 x 25-30 format. I kind of wish Tom Baker got more, as so many of his 50 minute stories ( whether 1 50, or 2 25s) always feel rushed and insubstantial to me. My favourite Who story ever - Inferno - is a 7 parter . . . Will the day ever come when Big Finish tries that? Maybe for a 3DA, they could just do the one 7 x 25 minute story as a Season 7 tribute, over 4 or 5 discs. A nice, old fashioned epic - not just lazy single episodes with an "arc" thrown in.
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Post by polly on Oct 7, 2019 22:29:31 GMT
4. When stories had time to be told. More often than not, 50 minutes is not enough and leads to rushed conclusions, leaps of logic, lack of detail and verisimilitude. Yes! The 50 minute episodes never really work for me as well as that perfect 4 x 25-30 format. I kind of wish Tom Baker got more, as so many of his 50 minute stories ( whether 1 50, or 2 25s) always feel rushed and insubstantial to me. My favourite Who story ever - Inferno - is a 7 parter . . . Will the day ever come when Big Finish tries that? Maybe for a 3DA, they could just do the one 7 x 25 minute story as a Season 7 tribute, over 4 or 5 discs. A nice, old fashioned epic - not just lazy single episodes with an "arc" thrown in. Yes, out of the audios, I think Tom has suffered the most from 50 minute stories. Both his Lost Stories and Philip Hinchcliffe Presents outings are so much richer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2019 1:16:53 GMT
Am all for mystery is there any mystery left? I struggle to find any. I feel as though the Doctor has become far too knowledgable, powerful and almost infallible since the series returned to TV. I think that's why I prefer my classic Doctors on Big Finish audio. It's still an adventure with them. I think you have to be very careful with characters like the Doctor in terms of their wisdom. More often than not, for the stories that work, the Doctor tends to have "big picture" knowledge. A few lines from a history book, usually ( Son of the Dragon was brilliant at this). Sweeping social movement, but lacking that personal reasoning. The human motivation that comes from the story itself. He knows what's going to happen to the outward shape of society, but not the inner architecture of those affected. Buildings may crumble, but we want to know more about those who built them. A good mystery tends to invite further questions. Yes! The 50 minute episodes never really work for me as well as that perfect 4 x 25-30 format. I kind of wish Tom Baker got more, as so many of his 50 minute stories ( whether 1 50, or 2 25s) always feel rushed and insubstantial to me. My favourite Who story ever - Inferno - is a 7 parter . . . Will the day ever come when Big Finish tries that? Maybe for a 3DA, they could just do the one 7 x 25 minute story as a Season 7 tribute, over 4 or 5 discs. A nice, old fashioned epic - not just lazy single episodes with an "arc" thrown in. Yes, out of the audios, I think Tom has suffered the most from 50 minute stories. Both his Lost Stories and Philip Hinchcliffe Presents outings are so much richer. I found the format tended to be a bit of a hurdle, yeah. Night of the Stormcrow pulled it off, but there's more than a little whiplash going from a 1.5-hour to 2-hour movie to something only half that. I think the New Series could pull off traditional serials in this day-and-age without too much struggle. We've now got a subculture of binge-watching, easy access to prior episodes (via catch-up media players) and the emergence of things like longrunning anime or The Clone Wars into the mainstream sphere of viewing, where multiple arcs in a season are king. There'd be a shift in how they're written, naturally, but it could be done.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2019 5:18:04 GMT
Respectfully, I prefer not to watch Jodie. 🤪😉
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Post by polly on Oct 8, 2019 21:05:54 GMT
I think the New Series could pull off traditional serials in this day-and-age without too much struggle. We've now got a subculture of binge-watching, easy access to prior episodes (via catch-up media players) and the emergence of things like longrunning anime or The Clone Wars into the mainstream sphere of viewing, where multiple arcs in a season are king. There'd be a shift in how they're written, naturally, but it could be done. Yes, I've long thought so as well. I'm not sure why they haven't, since it's the happy medium between rushed one-offs and long, convoluted arcs like River/Silence/Whatever. When Series 9 trended toward multipart stories, I really hoped that would become the norm again.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 3:37:51 GMT
I think the New Series could pull off traditional serials in this day-and-age without too much struggle. We've now got a subculture of binge-watching, easy access to prior episodes (via catch-up media players) and the emergence of things like longrunning anime or The Clone Wars into the mainstream sphere of viewing, where multiple arcs in a season are king. There'd be a shift in how they're written, naturally, but it could be done. Yes, I've long thought so as well. I'm not sure why they haven't, since it's the happy medium between rushed one-offs and long, convoluted arcs like River/Silence/Whatever. When Series 9 trended toward multipart stories, I really hoped that would become the norm again. I suspect there's probably a bit of anxiety from the higher-ups about changing the show's format after ten years. Series 9 was a good try in that direction and it nearly worked for me. The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar does well as a disguised four-parter, right down to the cliffhangers. Missy spirits Clara away from contemporary Earth at the end of "Part One" and Clara (in the Dalek) can't answer why Missy hasn't been killed at the end of "Part Three". Season 22, despite being often slow to start, did the same with a few of its stories. Attack of the Cybermen, for instance, has the full reveal of the Cybermen in the sewers for the end of "One" and Flast telling the Doctor their plans for "Three". The crisis point was still there, but we kept rolling on through. The problem I had, contrasting the original and the revival, is that Series 9 tended to lack that C-plot. Those extra threads usually devoted to one-off characters, which carried through and made an impact on the plot. If there were a shift back to serials, the first thing to look at would probably be to bring the guest cast into greater focus. Your Jagos, your Maces, your Litefoots, your Camecas, your Madam Presidents, your Kellys, your Spandrels... All the colourful hoi polloi met on their travels.
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