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Post by mark687 on Dec 5, 2015 21:05:47 GMT
Well what did we think?
EDIT
For myself loved the first 20 minutes or so but as soon as he got her out of Trap Street I knew where it was going and it became a touch boring.
Regards
mark687
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Post by ollychops on Dec 5, 2015 21:11:14 GMT
Hm. I'm not sure, to be honest. It was good, but... I feel like the fact they brought Clara back kind of invalidated her death in Face the Raven, but at the same time I love the idea of her and Ashildr having adventures in time and space in their own TARDIS. I suppose knowing that Clara will ultimately go back to Gallifrey to face the raven is enough to keep me satisfied, but I still feel a bit cheated.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 21:12:02 GMT
Well what did we think?
Regards
mark687 I liked it. Completely not anything like I expected, which kind of is what I expected. love the copout that that was the hybrid reveal in that nobody was wrong. And I love the american diner.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Dec 5, 2015 21:13:08 GMT
Bit of a disappointment (although a nice quote from Buckaroo Banzai), but considering some of the material (seriously, do they just redecorate on Gallifrey purely for the Doctor's next visit?!) it could've been a lot worse.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Dec 5, 2015 21:13:22 GMT
Asolutely loved it. And disagree on invalidating her death, it still happens as we saw it. {Spoiler} God I loved seeing the Doctor scooting about a classic white console room!God I loved seeing the Doctor scooting about a classic white console room!
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Post by fitzoliverj on Dec 5, 2015 21:15:38 GMT
(I reckon that Rassilon must've caught that nasty constant-regeneration disease of off Borusa.....)
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Post by ollychops on Dec 5, 2015 21:17:26 GMT
I feel like this is one of those episodes I'll love when I rewatch it. I'm still a little bummed out by the copout (which isn't really a copout, because it will happen eventually...), so I think once I get past that I'll really like it.
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Post by iainbenson on Dec 5, 2015 21:27:38 GMT
I agree with everything everybody above has said!
Loved: real console room, Clara and me rattling around space and time together, the suggesting and then ignoring the half-human idea, and correctly predicting fan suggestions of the hybrid being Ashildr-Me Disliked: bringing Clara back from the dead, redecorating Gallifrey
The premise that The Doc was telling Clara the story kinda didn't work because of the holes that should have been in his memory, but I'm glad it was his memory wiped, not Clara's, which would have made her just a copy of Donna. There are still missing bits of story, such as how the timelords, 4 1/2 billion years in the future, got in touch with Mayor Me to trap the Doctor, and why he thought he was dying at the start of the series.
I have a general feel of wanting to not like it for some reason I quite put my finger on, but overall, the episode was definitely more hit than miss, and has hopefully moved the character of this incarnation onwards for a change of pace next season with a fresh companion and fresh ideas.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Dec 5, 2015 22:42:05 GMT
While I doubt it was intentional I like to think that: {Spoiler} The light we see when the Doctor is speaking with Me is the yellow light of the Eminence, Time's Horizon
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Post by david on Dec 5, 2015 23:01:29 GMT
Loved it. It could easily have been two eps. I kinda expected some of it - the hybrid being Lady Me (kinda), The President being Rassilon, Clara's comeback but it was all done well. I think almost all of us assumed the waitress would be a splinter Clara so to find it was the real one was quite something. Lovely to see the original TARDIS. The regeneration from Ken Bone's General was a big "F.U." from Moffat to people like...well - you know who on the old board - that tried to find any and every excuse to say Missy couldn't be The Master as regeneration doesn't work that way. Well, we saw a regen on screen tonight so there's no more "well, we can guess from The Corsair stuff". Loved that he also made it clear race is no boundary either. How badass was Capaldi facing down the might of Rassilon? Now there's a deposed high council in exile and I imagine they'll be plotting something. Now Clara and Ashildir are out there in their own TARDIS on the run from the Timelords. How wonderful References to Buckaroo Banzai and Sapphire And Steel were very welcome
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 23:03:31 GMT
The finale! The end of regular Doctor Who for 2015!
And what a finale. Our hero doesn't just tilter, he falls straight in. Our hero is a mad thing, here, calculated fury, under the weight of impossible torment and what follows is a twisted sinister dark parody of a Doctor Who adventure. But, then God knows, what any of us would do for a second chance with someone we love. Even The Doctor. (Although I'm not overally happy with him killing. We'll know says the people of this forum.)
And then...that ending came. It didn't quite click for me and it was nearly perfect. Giving Clara another hint of an exit after so MANY cheapens her sacrafice and the story somewhat, particularly with what is at stake. It almost feels as if Moffatt is pitching a Big Finish spin off. I get it - seeing that diner in space is a nod we're going back to the silliness - but it feels wrong. Here's what I would have done (the guy who is not going to run Doctor Who ever.) It's wonderfully madcap, but it's wrong.
CLARA (smiles weakly, but she has accepted everything. She knows what is coming.): Time to go. ME (smiles back at her, with the wisdom of the ages): I know.
As for The Doctor's journey from here on now? Our hero finally has some perspective on his recent (revival series) tragedies and he might be able to finally move on somewhat. Which will be intresting to see. On the run from Galifery, again, you clever boy. Number Fourteen seems to be waiting in the wings, but hopefully not just yet.
NEXT TIME: One of The Doctor and River's madcap adventures will be known. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- and it looks to be one of the craziest Doctor Who adventures EVER! It isn't Christmas yet for ANOTHER reason. Bloody hell, Moffatt, I'm meant to be a rational well-adjusted adult. Let's hope that Star War thing can tide me over.
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Post by david on Dec 5, 2015 23:12:35 GMT
I get it - seeing that diner in space is a nod we're going back to the silliness - but it feels wrong. Felt oh so right to me.
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Post by pazzer on Dec 6, 2015 0:19:32 GMT
Brilliant.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Dec 6, 2015 0:48:21 GMT
Key words for me. Gorgeous. Confident. Random thoughts. The look on Coleman's face when informed of how long the Doctor was trapped in the torture chamber instantly got tears from me. I don't see how this cheapens Clara's "death." She still faces the Raven and perishes. That hasn't changed. This is a series about time travel, so a rescue attempt the second before that death seems perfectly within the show's logic. Her death is a fixed point. To me it isn't a whole lot different than what Big Finish has done over and over again. How many adventures did the 5th Doctor have with Peri before facing his actual end on Androzani between Peri's introduction serial and Androzani? Hell the 5th Doctor was experiencing the events of The Five Doctors and had a detour to have an adventure with The Five Companions. Big Finish just rewrote the 6th Doctor's demise while not changing a thing in the way it plays out onscreen. What Moffat has done with Clara doesn't seem that much different to me. Anyway. I loved the almost totally silent 12th Doctor at the start. I love that The War Doctor is the most revered of Time War heroes and it is enough to topple the most powerful Time Lord on Gallifrey. And yes, it does almost seem like they could start a spin-off series with Clara & Me tomorrow if they wanted to to. There was a certain poetry with having The Doctor's memory partially wiped that I found rather powerful. I agree, Moffat has cemented regeneration canon with this one and a lot of people probably won't be happy about it. I continue to believe that a series such as Doctor Who which is built on change needs to keep all its options open as it moves forward. Allowing for a female and/or non-white incarnation of the Doctor does that and if the best actor for the role isn't male or white, then nothing now stands in their way to being cast. Diversity is a good thing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 0:49:45 GMT
....and what are the odds that the final story of The Churchill Diaries will feature Clara JUST to make things sting all the more?
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Dec 6, 2015 1:47:57 GMT
There's your title
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Post by relativetime on Dec 6, 2015 2:07:49 GMT
I really liked it! There were just so many moments throughout, though, where I was like, "Oh, Big Finish, do that in the War Doctor audio dramas! Show us that!"
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Post by kimalysong on Dec 6, 2015 3:30:01 GMT
I thought I would be annoyed by Clara's return but I actually liked her ending here much more than in Face the Raven. It strangely felt more fitting for a long time companion.
I don't like memory loss ending but it being the Doctor and him not forgetting her completely also wasn't so bad for me as it would have been if it was another Donna, Jamie or Zoe situation.
However I am probably in the minority but I found all the scenes on Gallifrey dreadfully boring. After that long wait Gallifrey was a major disappointment to me.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Dec 6, 2015 4:01:44 GMT
However I am probably in the minority but I found all the scenes on Gallifrey dreadfully boring. After that long wait Gallifrey was a major disappointment to me. All the Gallifrey stuff did was ask more questions than Moffat seemed willing to dive into or answer. First among them, at least for me, what is the class system on Gallifrey? Still, if he did anything he set up Rassilon as a big bad in the future. Perhaps a team-up with Missy?
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 6, 2015 5:58:57 GMT
I really liked it! There were just so many moments throughout, though, where I was like, "Oh, Big Finish, do that in the War Doctor audio dramas! Show us that!" It's almost too much of a coincidence that the War Doctor Chronicles drop the week after "Hell Bent". Almost as if BF and the BBC said "one week will be enough for everyone to hav caught up"
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