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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 29, 2015 13:55:04 GMT
Seriously? More characters need to die, not less. If its in the character's natural progression, sure. Writing a character just to kill them? This is Doctor Who, not a teen slasher. I think Marie is right. It would be nice for more in the vein of Martha who just said "enough". That's boring though. If they're to do that, I think they should at least say a family member has developed cancer and she's leaving to look after him/her.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2015 13:57:43 GMT
Sea Devils! And, whilst I'd relish the reappearance of these terrific creatures, less overall continuity references. Such things sprinkled throughout the series are nice for old fans to nod about, but alienating for a general audience, especially a much desired younger demographic.
Other than that, more of the same. Doctor Who is on great form at the moment, in my view.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 29, 2015 14:07:35 GMT
If its in the character's natural progression, sure. Writing a character just to kill them? This is Doctor Who, not a teen slasher. I think Marie is right. It would be nice for more in the vein of Martha who just said "enough". That's boring though. If they're to do that, I think they should at least say a family member has developed cancer and she's leaving to look after him/her. What's boring is some tragedy that forcibly separates the companion from the Doctor, like Rose, Donna, Amy/Rory, Clara. That's 5 out of 6 modern companions that left because they were forced. A character CHOOSING to leave would be a nice change.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2015 14:23:11 GMT
If its in the character's natural progression, sure. Writing a character just to kill them? This is Doctor Who, not a teen slasher. I think Marie is right. It would be nice for more in the vein of Martha who just said "enough". That's boring though. If they're to do that, I think they should at least say a family member has developed cancer and she's leaving to look after him/her. You rather abrasively told us all how a Doctor Who one-hander would be boring (and indeed said it would never happen) so I think your definition of "boring" is completely askew and that cancer idea is just...wow. Killing characters off just 'because' and giving characters horrible illnesses for no reason....I'm very glad that the people writing Who on audio and on TV have more class and more taste.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2015 14:24:45 GMT
Sea Devils! And, whilst I'd relish the reappearance of these terrific creatures, less overall continuity references. Such things sprinkled throughout the series are nice for old fans to nod about, but alienating for a general audience, especially a much desired younger demographic. Other than that, more of the same. Doctor Who is on great form at the moment, in my view. Cold War did it well with the Ice Warriors. Bring back a classic "monster" but have it written in such a way that it doesn't feel like fan-service. It's just who The Doctor has stumbled upon this week.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2015 14:58:51 GMT
Sea Devils! And, whilst I'd relish the reappearance of these terrific creatures, less overall continuity references. Such things sprinkled throughout the series are nice for old fans to nod about, but alienating for a general audience, especially a much desired younger demographic. Other than that, more of the same. Doctor Who is on great form at the moment, in my view. Cold War did it well with the Ice Warriors. Bring back a classic "monster" but have it written in such a way that it doesn't feel like fan-service. It's just who The Doctor has stumbled upon this week. Absolutely. And for my money, have them more akin to the athletic reptiles from their original story and not the lumbering, skinny Samurai types from 'Warriors of the Deep.' I'd love to see a Myrka animated with today's technology too
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 29, 2015 15:36:20 GMT
That's boring though. If they're to do that, I think they should at least say a family member has developed cancer and she's leaving to look after him/her. You rather abrasively told us all how a Doctor Who one-hander would be boring (and indeed said it would never happen) so I think your definition of "boring" is completely askew and that cancer idea is just...wow. Killing characters off just 'because' and giving characters horrible illnesses for no reason....I'm very glad that the people writing Who on audio and on TV have more class and more taste. In my opinion, Heaven Sent kind of half proved and half didn't prove my point. It was a bit of a mixed bag; on one hand, there were some great scenes but on the other it just didn't feel e nough like Doctor Who (although I am glad the show takes risks as opposed to playing it safe). And as for cancer, it's an ongoing issue that many families have experienced and would keep the series up to date with topical issues. I don't see why a companion would just randomly leave when they've got all of time and space on offer; it's one of the reasons why Martha's exit didn't work for me. Yes, her family were tortured and it showed travelling with the Doctor is dangerous but something only happened to her family once out of nine adventures. So why should I care that she left? Wow. She decided to leave the TARDIS. Big deal and a massive anti-climax. If you're going to have a companion randomly decide to leave, it has to be a life or death situation IMO. Because let's face it: with a time/space machine, the only reason you're going to want to leave is if there's someone close to you in danger and you want to be there for them. Either that or your family's really unlucky and happened to have been involved in quite a few dangerous situations during your time with the Doctor or like Tegan you're disturbed by all of the death and destruction during your travels.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 29, 2015 16:27:16 GMT
You rather abrasively told us all how a Doctor Who one-hander would be boring (and indeed said it would never happen) so I think your definition of "boring" is completely askew and that cancer idea is just...wow. Killing characters off just 'because' and giving characters horrible illnesses for no reason....I'm very glad that the people writing Who on audio and on TV have more class and more taste. In my opinion, Heaven Sent kind of half proved and half didn't prove my point. It was a bit of a mixed bag; on one hand, there were some great scenes but on the other it just didn't feel e nough like Doctor Who (although I am glad the show takes risks as opposed to playing it safe). And as for cancer, it's an ongoing issue that many families have experienced and would keep the series up to date with topical issues. I don't see why a companion would just randomly leave when they've got all of time and space on offer; it's one of the reasons why Martha's exit didn't work for me. Yes, her family were tortured and it showed travelling with the Doctor is dangerous but something only happened to her family once out of nine adventures. So why should I care that she left? Wow. She decided to leave the TARDIS. Big deal and a massive anti-climax. If you're going to have a companion randomly decide to leave, it has to be a life or death situation IMO. Because let's face it: with a time/space machine, the only reason you're going to want to leave is if there's someone close to you in danger and you want to be there for them. Either that or your family's really unlucky and happened to have been involved in quite a few dangerous situations during your time with the Doctor or like Tegan you're disturbed by all of the death and destruction during your travels. Yeah, personally, I'd probably only do about two, three trips on the Tardis.
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Post by marie1964 on Dec 29, 2015 22:00:01 GMT
You rather abrasively told us all how a Doctor Who one-hander would be boring (and indeed said it would never happen) so I think your definition of "boring" is completely askew and that cancer idea is just...wow. Killing characters off just 'because' and giving characters horrible illnesses for no reason....I'm very glad that the people writing Who on audio and on TV have more class and more taste. In my opinion, Heaven Sent kind of half proved and half didn't prove my point. It was a bit of a mixed bag; on one hand, there were some great scenes but on the other it just didn't feel e nough like Doctor Who (although I am glad the show takes risks as opposed to playing it safe). And as for cancer, it's an ongoing issue that many families have experienced and would keep the series up to date with topical issues. I don't see why a companion would just randomly leave when they've got all of time and space on offer; it's one of the reasons why Martha's exit didn't work for me. Yes, her family were tortured and it showed travelling with the Doctor is dangerous but something only happened to her family once out of nine adventures. So why should I care that she left? Wow. She decided to leave the TARDIS. Big deal and a massive anti-climax. If you're going to have a companion randomly decide to leave, it has to be a life or death situation IMO. Because let's face it: with a time/space machine, the only reason you're going to want to leave is if there's someone close to you in danger and you want to be there for them. Either that or your family's really unlucky and happened to have been involved in quite a few dangerous situations during your time with the Doctor or like Tegan you're disturbed by all of the death and destruction during your travels. Or it could be for a happy reason, such as finally coming home again, getting married, staying with an organization you love [such as UNIT], helping out for a good cause, etc.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 30, 2015 10:27:03 GMT
In my opinion, Heaven Sent kind of half proved and half didn't prove my point. It was a bit of a mixed bag; on one hand, there were some great scenes but on the other it just didn't feel e nough like Doctor Who (although I am glad the show takes risks as opposed to playing it safe). And as for cancer, it's an ongoing issue that many families have experienced and would keep the series up to date with topical issues. I don't see why a companion would just randomly leave when they've got all of time and space on offer; it's one of the reasons why Martha's exit didn't work for me. Yes, her family were tortured and it showed travelling with the Doctor is dangerous but something only happened to her family once out of nine adventures. So why should I care that she left? Wow. She decided to leave the TARDIS. Big deal and a massive anti-climax. If you're going to have a companion randomly decide to leave, it has to be a life or death situation IMO. Because let's face it: with a time/space machine, the only reason you're going to want to leave is if there's someone close to you in danger and you want to be there for them. Either that or your family's really unlucky and happened to have been involved in quite a few dangerous situations during your time with the Doctor or like Tegan you're disturbed by all of the death and destruction during your travels. Or it could be for a happy reason, such as finally coming home again, getting married, staying with an organization you love [such as UNIT], helping out for a good cause, etc. You're forgetting that it's a time machine. You can do all those things without having to leave for good.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 30, 2015 11:05:35 GMT
Or it could be for a happy reason, such as finally coming home again, getting married, staying with an organization you love [such as UNIT], helping out for a good cause, etc. You're forgetting that it's a time machine. You can do all those things without having to leave for good. Same can be said for taking care of a dying relative. Perhaps the character looks at like that year backpacking in europe, fun for a bit, but the constant near dying is getting annoying.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 12:21:17 GMT
You rather abrasively told us all how a Doctor Who one-hander would be boring (and indeed said it would never happen) so I think your definition of "boring" is completely askew and that cancer idea is just...wow. Killing characters off just 'because' and giving characters horrible illnesses for no reason....I'm very glad that the people writing Who on audio and on TV have more class and more taste. In my opinion, Heaven Sent kind of half proved and half didn't prove my point. It was a bit of a mixed bag; on one hand, there were some great scenes but on the other it just didn't feel e nough like Doctor Who (although I am glad the show takes risks as opposed to playing it safe). And as for cancer, it's an ongoing issue that many families have experienced and would keep the series up to date with topical issues. I don't see why a companion would just randomly leave when they've got all of time and space on offer; it's one of the reasons why Martha's exit didn't work for me. Yes, her family were tortured and it showed travelling with the Doctor is dangerous but something only happened to her family once out of nine adventures. So why should I care that she left? Wow. She decided to leave the TARDIS. Big deal and a massive anti-climax. If you're going to have a companion randomly decide to leave, it has to be a life or death situation IMO. Because let's face it: with a time/space machine, the only reason you're going to want to leave is if there's someone close to you in danger and you want to be there for them. Either that or your family's really unlucky and happened to have been involved in quite a few dangerous situations during your time with the Doctor or like Tegan you're disturbed by all of the death and destruction during your travels. To be fair to Martha, everyone remembered what had happened over that paradoxical year when the Master took control of the Earth. She spent a whole year backpacking across the globe, preaching about the good that the Doctor is capable of. I always thought that her saying "enough is enough" was the final stroke in a long (albeit unseen) journey where she outgrew travelling abroad in time and space. I agree though, I'm in that camp where if you can't find something interesting to do with your companion that has lasting consequences (Nyssa aiding Terminus, Romana freeing the Tharils in E-Space, Ian and Barbara fulfilling their odyssey), then I think you should kill them off. Sara Kingdom leaves a remarkable impression on me as a viewer/listener having listened to the Simon Guerrier stories because her death is ultimately bittersweet. She pays for the death of her brother and her blind obedience, day after day after day, so when she perished on Kembel under the tempest of the Time Destructor, I think she finally found peace. That's powerful, that's poignant. The death matters, that's the most important thing to remember. You don't shrug it off like in Time-Flight, you have your characters be well and truly shaken by it. The death of Roz in So Vile a Sin causes the Doctor to have a hearts attack, the events in Project: Lazarus irreparably damage the Doctor and Evelyn's friendship. The Audio Visuals stories go one further and have the Doctor being escorted by the Daleks, only for him to see Ria trapped in one of their laboratories. He breaks away from them, running towards the bulkhead with every tiny morsel of energy he can muster, only for the Daleks to paralyse him before he reaches the door. That's the last time we see her because after that point, she's dead. Replaced by a Dalek replicant who murders her sister and kills the Doctor as the freighter he is trapped aboard crashes into the Dalek city. It hurts them and if you've played your cards right, it distresses the audience. It makes for good drama because you want to see them survive this. See how this does or doesn't change them. You want to make your characters and their ends matter.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 30, 2015 13:34:24 GMT
You're forgetting that it's a time machine. You can do all those things without having to leave for good. Same can be said for taking care of a dying relative. Perhaps the character looks at like that year backpacking in europe, fun for a bit, but the constant near dying is getting annoying. I disagree, I think if a relative had some kind of incurable disease your first priority would be to be there for him/her. If you chose time/space travelling over being there for somebody close to you when they need your support you'd be a very sick and twisted person. Travelling through time and space would be the last thing you'd think about.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 30, 2015 13:41:29 GMT
In my opinion, Heaven Sent kind of half proved and half didn't prove my point. It was a bit of a mixed bag; on one hand, there were some great scenes but on the other it just didn't feel e nough like Doctor Who (although I am glad the show takes risks as opposed to playing it safe). And as for cancer, it's an ongoing issue that many families have experienced and would keep the series up to date with topical issues. I don't see why a companion would just randomly leave when they've got all of time and space on offer; it's one of the reasons why Martha's exit didn't work for me. Yes, her family were tortured and it showed travelling with the Doctor is dangerous but something only happened to her family once out of nine adventures. So why should I care that she left? Wow. She decided to leave the TARDIS. Big deal and a massive anti-climax. If you're going to have a companion randomly decide to leave, it has to be a life or death situation IMO. Because let's face it: with a time/space machine, the only reason you're going to want to leave is if there's someone close to you in danger and you want to be there for them. Either that or your family's really unlucky and happened to have been involved in quite a few dangerous situations during your time with the Doctor or like Tegan you're disturbed by all of the death and destruction during your travels. To be fair to Martha, everyone remembered what had happened over that paradoxical year when the Master took control of the Earth. She spent a whole year backpacking across the globe, preaching about the good that the Doctor is capable of. I always thought that her saying "enough is enough" was the final stroke in a long (albeit unseen) journey where she outgrew travelling abroad in time and space. I agree though, I'm in that camp where if you can't find something interesting to do with your companion that has lasting consequences (Nyssa aiding Terminus, Romana freeing the Tharils in E-Space, Ian and Barbara fulfilling their odyssey), then I think you should kill them off. Sara Kingdom leaves a remarkable impression on me as a viewer/listener having listened to the Simon Guerrier stories because her death is ultimately bittersweet. She pays for the death of her brother and her blind obedience, day after day after day, so when she perished on Kembel under the tempest of the Time Destructor, I think she finally found peace. That's powerful, that's poignant. The death matters, that's the most important thing to remember. You don't shrug it off like in Time-Flight, you have your characters be well and truly shaken by it. The death of Roz in So Vile a Sin causes the Doctor to have a hearts attack, the events in Project: Lazarus irreparably damage the Doctor and Evelyn's friendship. The Audio Visuals stories go one further and have the Doctor being escorted by the Daleks, only for him to see Ria trapped in one of their laboratories. He breaks away from them, running towards the bulkhead with every tiny morsel of energy he can muster, only for the Daleks to paralyse him before he reaches the door. That's the last time we see her because after that point, she's dead. Replaced by a Dalek replicant who murders her sister and kills the Doctor as the freighter he is trapped aboard crashes into the Dalek city. It hurts them and if you've played your cards right, it distresses the audience. It makes for good drama because you want to see them survive this. See how this does or doesn't change them. You want to make your characters and their ends matter. Agreed. I care a lot more for a companion and his/her exit if they make mistakes and suffer the consequences. Even Clara still has to go back to Gallifrey to return to Trap Street and face her death eventually because she made a mistake and therefore there's a consequence for that. That's why I'd care more for a companion making a decision to leave if it was because of a relative with an incurable illness; the mistake would be not spending enough time with the relative and the consequence being he or her having little time left with said person because he or she has developed this illness and the companion never knew because nobody could get hold of him/her during the travels. It would make me feel more sympathetic with the companion leaving of their own accord than Martha's 'Oh, I'm going to leave by the way. Goodbye.'.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 30, 2015 14:15:14 GMT
Same can be said for taking care of a dying relative. Perhaps the character looks at like that year backpacking in europe, fun for a bit, but the constant near dying is getting annoying. I disagree, I think if a relative had some kind of incurable disease your first priority would be to be there for him/her. If you chose time/space travelling over being there for somebody close to you when they need your support you'd be a very sick and twisted person. Travelling through time and space would be the last thing you'd think about. So dividing your time between travelling time and space with spending time with your loved ones, or for other "Happy" reasons is ok, and not sick. It's like saying "I love you, but I also like going away from the furthest thing possible to a normal life I'd have with you" then pause, "Also, I may die, because I can't just leave to live with you, I need a tragedy to give this up. So I'm probably going to die, and you'll never know about it, and spend the rest of your life wondering what happened to the person you loved."
Cause that's a nice thing to do.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 14:20:44 GMT
I disagree, I think if a relative had some kind of incurable disease your first priority would be to be there for him/her. If you chose time/space travelling over being there for somebody close to you when they need your support you'd be a very sick and twisted person. Travelling through time and space would be the last thing you'd think about. So dividing your time between travelling time and space with spending time with your loved ones, or for other "Happy" reasons is ok, and not sick. It's like saying "I love you, but I also like going away from the furthest thing possible to a normal life I'd have with you" then pause, "Also, I may die, because I can't just leave to live with you, I need a tragedy to give this up. So I'm probably going to die, and you'll never know about it, and spend the rest of your life wondering what happened to the person you loved."
Cause that's a nice thing to do.
It may be a bit of a cheat, but there is one obvious reason why someone may take the TARDIS over choosing to spend every waking moment with a moribund loved one. "I'm going to find you a cure. I don't care how long it takes, but I will be back the moment I've left and I will have found it. I promise."
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Post by randomjc on Dec 30, 2015 14:22:46 GMT
So dividing your time between travelling time and space with spending time with your loved ones, or for other "Happy" reasons is ok, and not sick. It's like saying "I love you, but I also like going away from the furthest thing possible to a normal life I'd have with you" then pause, "Also, I may die, because I can't just leave to live with you, I need a tragedy to give this up. So I'm probably going to die, and you'll never know about it, and spend the rest of your life wondering what happened to the person you loved."
Cause that's a nice thing to do.
It may be a bit of a cheat, but there is one obvious reason why someone may take the TARDIS over choosing to spend every waking moment with a moribund loved one. "I'm going to find you a cure. I don't care how long it takes, but I will be back the moment I've left and I will have found it. I promise." I kind of like that one. it'd be a better start to a companion, rather than an end though. Maybe if the show only wanted a companion for a year, an entire arc around that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 14:35:28 GMT
It may be a bit of a cheat, but there is one obvious reason why someone may take the TARDIS over choosing to spend every waking moment with a moribund loved one. "I'm going to find you a cure. I don't care how long it takes, but I will be back the moment I've left and I will have found it. I promise." I kind of like that one. it'd be a better start to a companion, rather than an end though. Maybe if the show only wanted a companion for a year, an entire arc around that. Ah... I just remembered that BF have beaten me to the punch, Nyssa's second bout aboard the TARDIS had her searching for the cure to Richter's Syndrome. It was so backgrounded in those stories that I'd almost forgotten it, I was having too much fun in Calcutta and on 8/Q Panenka.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 30, 2015 14:38:07 GMT
I kind of like that one. it'd be a better start to a companion, rather than an end though. Maybe if the show only wanted a companion for a year, an entire arc around that. Ah... I just remembered that BF have beaten me to the punch, Nyssa's second bout aboard the TARDIS had her searching for the cure to Richter's Syndrome. It was so backgrounded in those stories that I'd almost forgotten it, I was having too much fun in Calcutta and on 8/Q Panenka. That was more for a general cause, I don't think her loved ones were affected. And I have a love hate with Older Nyssa...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 14:40:41 GMT
Ah... I just remembered that BF have beaten me to the punch, Nyssa's second bout aboard the TARDIS had her searching for the cure to Richter's Syndrome. It was so backgrounded in those stories that I'd almost forgotten it, I was having too much fun in Calcutta and on 8/Q Panenka. That was more for a general cause, I don't think her loved ones were affected. And I have a love hate with Older Nyssa... I'll hold my tongue on that since it has spoilers for Prisoners of Fate, but I think she ran her course in that story. Most of that crew's stories had been rather good up until that point, but the E-Space trilogy was three steps too far, they just didn't work.
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