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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 9, 2023 0:22:49 GMT
The nice one, 'sweet?! as his successor would put it, and with a reputation of trying to find the most optimistic solution to problems, even as he had multiple companions on his back. Of course, one can also see the root of what Cartmel called 'the whipping boy' when it came to how the first two thirds of 80s Who treated the Doctor, always on the backfoot and vulnerable.
But how do you feel? Was Five too soft, or is there something more stout here?
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Apr 9, 2023 1:01:23 GMT
Interesting topic- thank you.
I feel he had to become a different iteration of "4" , what with his butting in, "shooshing" people etc.. He had a tiny bit of a grumpy personality to show he had some grit and guts to him at the end of the day IMHO.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Apr 9, 2023 4:59:28 GMT
Paul Cornell positioned the fifth Doctor as the only previous incarnation that refused to go along with the seventh Doctor’s ploy to defeat the Timewyrm (IIRC it was “trick Timewyrm into going into a human body, allow that body to die”) and got ‘chained’ in the Doctor’s subconscious in Timewyrm: Revelation for his troubles. “Matrix” has the Valeyard corrupting all the (again the seventh) Doctor’s past incarnation and almost failed, only leveraging a fear of death by Spectrox poisoning to corrupt him.
Conversely, one book has someone snarl at the fifth Doctor to ‘go and stand in rhe corner” before he hurt himself (can’t remember which one, it was a UNIT or similar officer saying I think). In “Cold Fusion” the seventh (again) is of the opinion the fifth Doctor is likely to mess up his scheme by being heroic and compassionate (contra-conversely - the fifth Doctor SHOOTS the general and is apparently reassured to see he was wearing body armour AFTER shooting him).
Basically, the gist is if we were assign a unique role to each Doctor - fiver is the moral compass.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Apr 9, 2023 8:41:01 GMT
He was politer than his predecessor but always had that same element of steel in him, without resorting to the sarcasm or dismissive tones he’d had previously as well. I always found him to appear more vulnerable but able to produce a victory from up his sleeve when he needed to. Like Eleven, he frequently presented as someone who was a lot more naive and innocent than he really was.
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Post by martinw8686 on Apr 9, 2023 10:03:57 GMT
To me 5 was more gentle and hopeful in nature, he went into situations with almost boyish enthusiasm and curiosity. The Doctor's kindness and goodness was worn fully on his sleeve. He wanted to see the best in those he met, or support them to be the best they could be.
5's fatal flaw was he assumed everyone else was as good and kind as he was. He would wonder in to dangerous situations and not realise how much trouble he was in until it was almost to late. 5 wasn't a push over but he would need to be pushed into action to draw on his immense inner strength and determination to rise above the darker situations his curiosity would land him in. His final adventure on Androzani a case in point of what he was capable of when pushed.
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Post by Kestrel on Apr 11, 2023 2:11:58 GMT
I don't know that I'd call him a pushover -- he knows when to stand his ground, certainly -- but he definitely comes across as a bit more... naive than most other Doctors, and much less forceful. This can lead to him being, perhaps, somewhat ineffectual. He's not a character who will walk up to a villain and demand that they stop whatever they're doing, instead he'll just ask them to. It makes him feel kind of... aloof. He's only willing to go so far.
And to sort of frame the 5th Doctor's personality within the context of the Doctors implied, largely accidental Classic-era character arc, he's in very much a transitional stage. Partway between the 4th Doctor questioning whether or not he has the right to make large-scale temporal interventions and the 6th Doctor (and 7th Doctor) deciding that not only do they absolutely have that right, but a responsibility to exercise it.
And I think -- retroactively applying this arc -- that development was only possible in the wake of the 5th Doctor's repeated failures. Like I definitely see a causal relationship between the 5th Doctor's humility and failures to save people and the 6th Doctors much brasher, more determined take on problem-solving... to the 7th Doctor's cold hearted determination to win no matter what.
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