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Post by martinw8686 on Jun 17, 2023 17:41:16 GMT
I'm wondering, does anyone else feel Doctors 1, 2, 3, and 11 are getting better and more original stories, both individually and also story arcs?
I've felt in the last couple of years, Doctors 4 - 8's adventures has become a little stale and formulaic, not particularly bad but generally nothing to get excited about.
4s sets have fallen into a steady rhythm since series 9 with 7/10 the generally score I'd give most stories.
I loved The Auton Infinity for 5 but otherwise again mostly 6/10 for the other releases.
I've not heard good things about 6s ongoing story arc, the last 6 adventure I was hugely impressed with Plight of the Pimpernel in 2019, although Out of Time Wink gave Colin some great scenes.
7s releases have been poor for some time, with the last set a bit better but still uninspiring.
I have a soft spot for 8 and generally really enjoy his sets. It all feels a bit low key for 8 at the moment, Time War 5 was okay, with the exception of Albie's Angels 10/10, the other stories were fun but standard.
Now the adventures that have exciting me in the last year or so.
11 has had some really cool quirky stories with new companion Valerie working out nicely.
I love The 1st Doctor/Dodo dynamic, it's unexplored territory and The Miniaturist was a lovely weird tale.
I enjoyed the weird first story from beyond War Games, admittedly the Ice Warrior tale was nothing new but next months set looks like it will build nicely on the 2nd Doctors creepy Timelord handler Raven.
Tim Trelors 3rd Doctor continues to go from strength to strength, as the prototype recast range, experimenting with 7 and 6 part sets, as well older Jo hour long episodes.
It certainly feels to me the more interesting and less explored era's are Doctors 1, 2 and 3.
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Post by elkawho on Jun 18, 2023 14:24:04 GMT
I agree with some of your points but highly disagree with others. I love the 3rd Doctor range, so I'm with you there. But I have yet to be enamored with the new 1st or 2nd Doctors. I don't dislike Noonan's take on One, I actually enjoy it, but I don't think he's heads and tails above David Bradley or Peter Purves. When it comes to Michael Troughton's 2nd Doctor, I don't believe I've heard enough of him to form a strong opinion either way.
The point I agree the most with is regarding the Seventh Doctor. I have been extremely disappointed with his stories over the last few years.
from the start I have always felt that his stories have been the most inconsistent in quality of all the Doctors, in both writing and performances. He has reached some amazing heights but has also had more than a few clunkers. But when he's good he's absolutely amazing. I just finished re-listening to Love and War, and have decided to go back to some of his early winners, like A Thousand Tiny Wings, The Harvest, Live 34, etc. But since the end of the MR (and Covid might have a lot to do with this) I have found the few Seventh Doctor stories that we are getting to be difficult to get through. I'm not a fan of the Sullivan and Cross pairing and not looking forward to this upcoming release at all. And I've also been quite vocal about how much I'm disliking The Sixth Doctor under the guidance of Jac Raynor. He deserves better.
Regarding the Eight Doctor, there we disagree immensely. I recently went back and relistened to the entire Stranded arc at once. It was 10x better when listened to in one go than it was when released, and I had to wait months in between sets. The arc of the individual characters was much clearer and I didn't have to remind myself who was who. Even Robin was a better character on second listen than he was on the first. The relationships that are created and highlighted are really quite good. And the idea to go back to stand alone stories since then has been great and is something I've been hoping for. And yes, Albie's Angels was exceptional. I get the companion fatigue regarding Liv and Helen, but come on. When they have a talent like Nicola Walker who wants to work with them and makes time in her schedule to do so, why would they give that up? I still love this Tardis team and probably always will.
Regarding your original point, I don't think I would say that the lesser seen Doctors are getting better stories, but I do agree that the box sets for the previous Main Range Doctors have not served them well at all, and that they were given much better material in the Main Range. (Although I do think Five is holding up well for the most part.)
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Post by nardole on Jun 18, 2023 15:44:32 GMT
Besides a few outliers it seems seven hasnt really been good since the hex arc.
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Post by martinw8686 on Jun 18, 2023 18:52:57 GMT
I agree with some of your points but highly disagree with others. I love the 3rd Doctor range, so I'm with you there. But I have yet to be enamored with the new 1st or 2nd Doctors. I don't dislike Noonan's take on One, I actually enjoy it, but I don't think he's heads and tails above David Bradley or Peter Purves. When it comes to Michael Troughton's 2nd Doctor, I don't believe I've heard enough of him to form a strong opinion either way. The point I agree the most with is regarding the Seventh Doctor. I have been extremely disappointed with his stories over the last few years. from the start I have always felt that his stories have been the most inconsistent in quality of all the Doctors, in both writing and performances. He has reached some amazing heights but has also had more than a few clunkers. But when he's good he's absolutely amazing. I just finished re-listening to Love and War, and have decided to go back to some of his early winners, like A Thousand Tiny Wings, The Harvest, Live 34, etc. But since the end of the MR (and Covid might have a lot to do with this) I have found the few Seventh Doctor stories that we are getting to be difficult to get through. I'm not a fan of the Sullivan and Cross pairing and not looking forward to this upcoming release at all. And I've also been quite vocal about how much I'm disliking The Sixth Doctor under the guidance of Jac Raynor. He deserves better. Regarding the Eight Doctor, there we disagree immensely. I recently went back and relistened to the entire Stranded arc at once. It was 10x better when listened to in one go than it was when released, and I had to wait months in between sets. The arc of the individual characters was much clearer and I didn't have to remind myself who was who. Even Robin was a better character on second listen than he was on the first. The relationships that are created and highlighted are really quite good. And the idea to go back to stand alone stories since then has been great and is something I've been hoping for. And yes, Albie's Angels was exceptional. I get the companion fatigue regarding Liv and Helen, but come one. When they have a talent like Nicola Walker who wants to work with them and makes time in her schedule to do so, why would they give that up? I still love this Tardis team and probably always will. Regarding your original point, I don't think I would say that the lesser seen Doctors are getting better stories, but I do agree that the box sets for the previous Main Range Doctors have not served them well at all, and that they were given much better material in the Main Range. (Although I do think Five is holding up well for the most part.) Regarding 8, I really enjoyed Stranded, I've adored the epic story telling we've had since Dark Eyes, I guess going back to stand alone stories feels a bit flat for me. With 1 and 2, my main feeling is the direction their going feels fresh with interesting idea's like the Miniaturisist and Demon Song, those are the kind of concepts that 5, 6 and 7 used to get. Beyond War Games feels like a new direction for the 2nd Doctor. With 4, 5, 6 and 7 everything feels very samey. Although Margaret is well played, the recent 4th Doctor Adventures were to me very formulaic. I'll conseed that I enjoyed 5DA Conflicts of Interest but I would like to see 5 do something fresh. I guess I've found a lot of the ranges are telling x meets y stories, with returning monsters doing quite samey things. Any kind of new dynamic really appeals to me. |
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enofa
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Post by enofa on Jun 20, 2023 12:37:24 GMT
I kind of agree that the Four through Seven stories have been spinning wheels for a while now. Not especially bad, in most cases, and I did enjoy The Edge of War quite a lot, but it’s been a while since a genuine classic - or even a story that really moved me - came from these Doctors.
The exception is Seven, whose range has been struggling for a long time. I thought Silver and Ice was awful, and that, combined with my dislike of recasting, has basically killed my interest in his range for the time being. Depressingly, the last Seven story that had any impact on me was The High Price of Parking, six years ago. His stories have always been tricky, at least partially because Sylv’s performances are very variable in quality, but also because unlike other Doctors with comparable gaps in their TV runs, he hasn’t actually had a fresh start. Away from Mel and Ace, he’s only had new companions for a trilogy or two, and often in a very disjointed manner. He needs an equivalent of Evelyn, Flip, Charley or Lucie: a new long-term Doctor-companion relationship to refresh his character.
Eight, Nine and Ten have all impressed me recently - Eight’s had a couple of stand out comedies from John Dorney and the beautiful Albie’s Angels, as well as the original approach of Stranded; Nine’s character has been redefined by his more carefree travels without the weight of Rose and the Time War; Dalek Universe was brilliant. The First, Second and Third Doctor ranges don’t interest me (recasting again), but reading about The Miniaturist and the 6B stuff definitely makes them seem a lot more interesting, story-wise.
So yeah, it seems that having the original actors and the classic serial format seems to be resulting in the least interesting stories at present. Whether this is because the better stories are being given to the earlier ones to try and appeal to recasting sceptics, and later Doctors because they’re most high profile, or it’s just down to different people’s involvement, I wouldn’t like to say.
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Post by martinw8686 on Jun 20, 2023 21:47:44 GMT
As I say, there's not much I would call bad, just kind of middle of the road. The 7th Doctor story Bad Day in Tinseltown was the one story I can honestly say I found absolutely awful, with a truly terrible performance from the lead human villain.
It's mostly 4, 6 and 7 that have felt the most flat. The Auton Infinity and Conflicts of Interest for the 5th Doctor were pretty decent.
I really liked Stranded and Albie's Angels, I'm a little stuck in my ways in resistance towards 8 returning to stand alone adventures.
I've said for a while I don't enjoy the format with the 9DAs, the charecter feels neutered with his darker edges stripped away and the carefree companionless wondering feels inconsequential and repetitive.
In terms of quality I accept that enjoyment of 1, 2 and 3 is debatable, I've just felt that the concepts and direction appears more interesting and original to me.
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Post by thegreendeath on Jun 20, 2023 23:01:34 GMT
Regardless of the quality of material I’d say that 3’s sets are actually the least original out of all the ranges (except maybe 4). All the stories could easily slot into his era in terms of storylines and music. The only thing they did a little different is having older Jo in the recent set, but that is only happening because Katy directly requested it.
I’m only on the firsts story of the set (which I’m enjoying greatly) and with the exception of older Jo and mentions to podcasts, the overall theme of the set (and it’s environment concerns and such), feels very Pertwee era Who.
To me the 3DAs are the most “comfort food” of all the ranges.
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Post by martinw8686 on Jun 21, 2023 0:09:29 GMT
Regardless of the quality of material I’d say that 3’s sets are actually the least original out of all the ranges (except maybe 4). All the stories could easily slot into his era in terms of storylines and music. The only thing they did a little different is having older Jo in the recent set, but that is only happening because Katy directly requested it. I’m only on the firsts story of the set (which I’m enjoying greatly) and with the exception of older Jo and mentions to podcasts, the overall theme of the set (and it’s environment concerns and such), feels very Pertwee era Who. To me the 3DAs are the most “comfort food” of all the ranges. Maybe because we've had less full cast 3rd Doctor it feels fresher to me, where as we've had years of 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 etc, I've become a little jaded in my listening. I adore the Fourth Doctor and Leela but I do feel I need a break from that dynamic. I loved 4DAs series 9, it was really cool hearing new E space stories. I'm loving hearing 3 with Sarah Jane. The Gulf, now there's a really original take on the 3DAs |
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enofa
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Post by enofa on Jun 21, 2023 0:09:39 GMT
I've said for a while I don't enjoy the format with the 9DAs, the charecter feels neutered with his darker edges stripped away and the carefree companionless wondering feels inconsequential and repetitive. I suppose I’m mostly interested in variety - Eight has been heavily serialised since his last Lucie series, and Nine was defined by the post-Time War arc which I found a little too angsty. So by giving them some fun standalones, it’s keeping things fresh. After a while I’ll be hoping the ranges tackle something more experimental again. And yeah, Five has never been one of my favourites, on TV, in books, or on Big Finish, but out of the 4-7 run he’s had by far the run in the last couple of years. |
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Post by grinch on Jun 27, 2023 17:08:35 GMT
I think the problem with the Seventh Doctor for me is that it seems that since Hex’s arc concluded, they haven’t known exactly what to do with his range.
Or at least what direction it should go.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,817 
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Post by lidar2 on Jun 28, 2023 10:01:00 GMT
I think the problem with the Seventh Doctor for me is that it seems that since Hex’s arc concluded, they haven’t known exactly what to do with his range. Or at least what direction it should go. I thought Mags and Seven had potential but that was never followed up on. |
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jun 28, 2023 16:34:02 GMT
I think the problem with the Seventh Doctor for me is that it seems that since Hex’s arc concluded, they haven’t known exactly what to do with his range. Or at least what direction it should go.
Interesting comment in light of the rumour (apparently now debunked) that McCoy was going to retire from acting
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Post by Kestrel on Jun 28, 2023 19:11:59 GMT
I don't know that any of the Doctors really qualify as "lesser seen."
If we're just talking about the soundalikes though... not sure I can really agree. For the 11th Doctor, simply because I haven't listened to any of the 11DCs yet (and don't o,an to anytime soon); for the 3DAs, I think the quality stabilized pretty quickly after the first couple sets, and I don't think there's really been a spike in quality there, though I've not yet listened to the most-recent set; 2DAs are too new (and too few) to judge yet; 1DAs remain as consistent as ever, I think -- high highs, ow lows.
Not sure we've seen much in terms of arcs lately, either. If anything, it kinda feels like BF is moving away from arcs in favor of more self-contained boxsets.
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Post by dasmaniac on Jun 28, 2023 19:17:51 GMT
I hope the issue isn't Sylvester's availability because I think there's a lot left to be done with the Seventh Doctor. Whole chapters of his life left unexplored. He has arguably the clearest character growth potential of the BF Doctors.
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Post by martinw8686 on Jun 28, 2023 19:42:42 GMT
I don't know that any of the Doctors really qualify as "lesser seen." If we're just talking about the soundalikes though... not sure I can really agree. For the 11th Doctor, simply because I haven't listened to any of the 11DCs yet (and don't o,an to anytime soon); for the 3DAs, I think the quality stabilized pretty quickly after the first couple sets, and I don't think there's really been a spike in quality there, though I've not yet listened to the most-recent set; 2DAs are too new (and too few) to judge yet; 1DAs remain as consistent as ever, I think -- high highs, ow lows. Not sure we've seen much in terms of arcs lately, either. If anything, it kinda feels like BF is moving away from arcs in favor of more self-contained boxsets. I think it’s just me, but it's feels like with these recasts that in terms of full cast plays, it's a chance to tell more focused 1,2,3,War,11 stories. I can't speak of overall quality of the various ranges, just that I've found myself more interested in these recasts because it feels like potential for fresh stories. I'm probably basing this on a couple of releases that have disappointing me, for example Silver & Ice, New Frontiers, Doctor of War and the poor feedback of the recent 6DAs. |
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