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Post by timleschild on Oct 25, 2023 21:57:45 GMT
DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO! Now you just sound like a petulant child. & of course you didn't with your rude comment. I could suggest you just focus on the topic of this thread rather than making personal attacks.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Oct 25, 2023 21:59:11 GMT
Seems like I dodged a bullet with this range, & saved money. Only a year to wait folks for The Final Act! Just in time for the 61st anniversary! So let me get this straight, you have been moaning and complaining about these releases since April and you haven’t even bothered to listen to any of them?
Go away and stop wasting our time.Anyways. I enjoyed this one, it’s always a pleasure heading Carole Ann Ford, and Maureen O’Brien never fails to leave me with a smile. Paul McGann and Tom Baker are delightful as always. This story utilizes the degeneration in a way I expected the entire range to do, but it works out really well in this story I’m curious as to what’s left for the Coda to set up, but unless Big Finish pulls it ahead, there won’t be any momentum left for this to pick up on. The entire range has been a mixed bag, but unlike certain users on this forum, who haven’t even heard this range, would have you believe, it’s far from the worst thing Big Finish has produced. It’s a bit of light fun for the anniversary. It’s called trolling. and you know what they say about feeding them.
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Post by timleschild on Oct 25, 2023 22:00:18 GMT
So let me get this straight, you have been moaning and complaining about these releases since April and you haven’t even bothered to listen to any of them?
Go away and stop wasting our time.Anyways. I enjoyed this one, it’s always a pleasure heading Carole Ann Ford, and Maureen O’Brien never fails to leave me with a smile. Paul McGann and Tom Baker are delightful as always. This story utilizes the degeneration in a way I expected the entire range to do, but it works out really well in this story I’m curious as to what’s left for the Coda to set up, but unless Big Finish pulls it ahead, there won’t be any momentum left for this to pick up on. The entire range has been a mixed bag, but unlike certain users on this forum, who haven’t even heard this range, would have you believe, it’s far from the worst thing Big Finish has produced. It’s a bit of light fun for the anniversary. It’s called trolling. and you know what they say about feeding them. No its not its called commenting. Why are you joining in with the cyber bullying?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Oct 25, 2023 22:04:18 GMT
What is an example of a trolling behavior? Trolls will frequently try to attack something you have revealed you like or are in favor of. If someone is trying to insult your tastes directly, or if are generally bashing the topic of a forum or post, you probably have a troll on your hands.
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Post by timleschild on Oct 25, 2023 22:09:18 GMT
What is an example of a trolling behavior? Trolls will frequently try to attack something you have revealed you like or are in favor of. If someone is trying to insult your tastes directly, or if are generally bashing the topic of a forum or post, you probably have a troll on your hands. "It’s called trolling. and you know what they say about feeding them." Take your own advice then, leave me alone please. Try to stay on topic.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Oct 25, 2023 22:18:21 GMT
I’m happy to stay on topic to discus the series that I’ve paid for and listened to.
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melkur
Chancellery Guard
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Post by melkur on Oct 25, 2023 22:26:10 GMT
Listening to all of it in context of each other, I've enjoyed listening to the 'O&F' arc in (technical) full throughout today (though, yes, some releases were weaker than others).
In regards to 'The Union'? I did really enjoy it, and am glad to see it finally all wrap-up, but will agree with others that I am curious as to how next year's release will contribute...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2023 5:50:24 GMT
Well, it's a fitting finale for this series. But that's not really praise. Still - it's better than most. Well, parts of this at least felt like things you have in a celebration - the small references like "Must dash" from The Five Docs, The Doctor and Susan back in a prehistoric cave on Earth 60 years on, River taking some classes at Coal Hill. And none were too shoe-horned, just small throw away moments. OK, actually saying "Ol' Sixie" was...no, just no. Loved hearing Tom with Susan briefly but it was a lovely moment that she reacted to McGann as familiarly as she would Hartnell. Makes absolute sense for BF continuity and was a very clever read from Carole-Anne. As a story it's probably the most enjoyable, even if it's the cheap pops you get from nostalgia more than anything. There's a 20 minute stretch that's nothing but "X Doctor, come on down!" (which made Eccleston's absence notable - guess he really did refuse to do a multi-Doc, after all, with only the "Warner's not a REAL Doc and I want to work with him" caveat. To have them all here but him? Especially when 6 are recasts? A shame but hey. Maureen O'Brien was fantastic. Could so easily have been casting someone from the early days for the sake of it but she was fab, OTT, camp, vampy. Just what the character asked for. But THe Union is the Collective/Renegade? Really? We've already had Michael Moloney's in this very series. Imagine a series where the big bad villain was revealed as The Master, when we had an earlier Master just two months earlier (Two's Company was just August after all). Seems like a massive anticlimax from the plot's POV but I guess that's in keeping with the series. The Doctor has beaten so many versions of The Collective in the past few years that to now try and sell them as a massive threat is a big miss. Still - Maureen sells it better than the saga deserves. Not sure why Aussie and Mark said there'd be a lot of "oh my" discussion. Nothing here felt big, unexpected or noteworthy. If the end saw someone pop up totally unexpected like Jodie, really setting up Coda? Sure. But most of this was just, so what? Is anyone going to be counting down the days to that release next year based on this? And, the "prime" Doctor being the Time War one, well...it'd be a bit more of a reveal if THEY DIDN'T USE THE WAR DOCTOR THEME AT THE START! I'm not quite sure the "others keep me at bay.." thing works when The War Doctor's actions haven't happened yet for most of them. The last 20 mins though is just a runaround of "the gang's all here" which has some nice moments but is mostly stitched together versions of what we've seen at the top and tail of each story, Docs popping in and out. Though Tennant saying "I hope I really will see you with these eyes..." to Susan, well, that line could become more relevant if she does indeed show up in the upcoming TV specials. I wonder if there's a better version of this where The War Doctor is the villain with his past and future selves against him - exploring the themes of the 50th, expanding them and giving some more context to the way other Doctors react to him. Oh, and if I never hear Jacob Dudman's Capaldi again, it'll be too soon. It's absolutely awful. Why because he does a good Smith, should he play Capaldi's Doctor? Baffling. Seriously, BF. A 30 year old guy from the South of England can probably do a Matt impression. Same age, same area. Asking them to do a 60 year old Glaswegian? I honestly didn't know who he was supposed to be for a minute...and Capaldi's my fave Doc of the new series and from 5 mins up the road from me. Shouldn't sound THAT foreign to my ears! Alex Kingston compares the story to Tolkien in the extras, saying it's one big adventure. Tolkien spent YEARS working out the lore of his own universe, this whole endeavour doesn't seem like much thought went into the details at all, just a big picture "Loads of Doctors, lots of crossovers" high concept pitch. I don't think old J.R.R. would take kindly to that comparison when this seems to be so disparate and disconnected. A very off, and odd, comparison. McGann meanwhile does the "Well, it's about family" shtick that's almost become a meme since Star Wars sequels started using it in every press and PR piece. Kinda laughed at that! While Maureen just seems happy to remember Longleat. Just posted a glowing review of Intelligence For War, the new 3DA yesterday. The Third Doc is among my least favourites but that story was so good and evocative it deserves the praise, I'm an easy lay for fan service often so much of this SHOULD get me but it's a bit like - and this isn't a hot take, loads of us say it - the crossovers between ranges have almost killed this sort of story off. Without the novelty meetings, the stories had to be good. The mystery - if you want to make the saga a mystery - had to be interesting and have a resolution that was satisfying. Neither of those happened. A lot of these actors - hard truth - may not be around in a decade. This may be the last time a 10 year anniversary has the chance to use them. That they were used in service of so little makes me quite sad, really. It didn't feel like a celebration. It didn't feel like a tribute. It said nothing profound or new about The Doctor or anyone else. It set up nothing new. It just....exists. Over to you, RTD. Give us something that really gets the excitement up for the anniversary. Even on this thread "it was good" seems about as happy as anyone is. No-one's exactly jumping for joy even if it did work better for them. Let's hope The Toymaker can be a bit more interesting than whatever this was.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Oct 26, 2023 6:34:49 GMT
Well, it's a fitting finale for this series. But that's not really praise. Still - it's better than most. Well, parts of this at least felt like things you have in a celebration - the small references like "Must dash" from The Five Docs, The Doctor and Susan back in a prehistoric cave on Earth 60 years on, River taking some classes at Coal Hill. And none were too shoe-horned, just small throw away moments. OK, actually saying "Ol' Sixie" was...no, just no. Loved hearing Tom with Susan briefly but it was a lovely moment that she reacted to McGann as familiarly as she would Hartnell. Makes absolute sense for BF continuity and was a very clever read from Carole-Anne. As a story it's probably the most enjoyable, even if it's the cheap pops you get from nostalgia more than anything. There's a 20 minute stretch that's nothing but "X Doctor, come on down!" (which made Eccleston's absence notable - guess he really did refuse to do a multi-Doc, after all, with only the "Warner's not a REAL Doc and I want to work with him" caveat. To have them all here but him? Especially when 6 are recasts? A shame but hey. Maureen O'Brien was fantastic. Could so easily have been casting someone from the early days for the sake of it but she was fab, OTT, camp, vampy. Just what the character asked for. But THe Union is the Collective/Renegade? Really? We've already had Michael Moloney's in this very series. Imagine a series where the big bad villain was revealed as The Master, when we had an earlier Master just two months earlier (Two's Company was just August after all). Seems like a massive anticlimax from the plot's POV but I guess that's in keeping with the series. The Doctor has beaten so many versions of The Collective in the past few years that to now try and sell them as a massive threat is a big miss. Still - Maureen sells it better than the saga deserves. Not sure why Aussie and Mark said there'd be a lot of "oh my" discussion. Nothing here felt big, unexpected or noteworthy. If the end saw someone pop up totally unexpected like Jodie, really setting up Coda? Sure. But most of this was just, so what? Is anyone going to be counting down the days to that release next year based on this? And, the "prime" Doctor being the Time War one, well...it'd be a bit more of a reveal if THEY DIDN'T USE THE WAR DOCTOR THEME AT THE START! I'm not quite sure the "others keep me at bay.." thing works when The War Doctor's actions haven't happened yet for most of them. The last 20 mins though is just a runaround of "the gang's all here" which has some nice moments but is mostly stitched together versions of what we've seen at the top and tail of each story, Docs popping in and out. Though Tennant saying "I hope I really will see you with these eyes..." to Susan, well, that line could become more relevant if she does indeed show up in the upcoming TV specials. I wonder if there's a better version of this where The War Doctor is the villain with his past and future selves against him - exploring the themes of the 50th, expanding them and giving some more context to the way other Doctors react to him. Oh, and if I never hear Jacob Dudman's Capaldi again, it'll be too soon. It's absolutely awful. Why because he does a good Smith, should he play Capaldi's Doctor? Baffling. Seriously, BF. A 30 year old guy from the South of England can probably do a Matt impression. Same age, same area. Asking them to do a 60 year old Glaswegian? I honestly didn't know who he was supposed to be for a minute...and Capaldi's my fave Doc of the new series and from 5 mins up the road from me. Shouldn't sound THAT foreign to my ears! Alex Kingston compares the story to Tolkien in the extras, saying it's one big adventure. Tolkien spent YEARS working out the lore of his own universe, this whole endeavour doesn't seem like much thought went into the details at all, just a big picture "Loads of Doctors, lots of crossovers" high concept pitch. I don't think old J.R.R. would take kindly to that comparison when this seems to be so disparate and disconnected. A very off, and odd, comparison. McGann meanwhile does the "Well, it's about family" shtick that's almost become a meme since Star Wars sequels started using it in every press and PR piece. Kinda laughed at that! While Maureen just seems happy to remember Longleat. Just posted a glowing review of Intelligence For War, the new 3DA yesterday. The Third Doc is among my least favourites but that story was so good and evocative it deserves the praise, I'm an easy lay for fan service often so much of this SHOULD get me but it's a bit like - and this isn't a hot take, loads of us say it - the crossovers between ranges have almost killed this sort of story off. Without the novelty meetings, the stories had to be good. The mystery - if you want to make the saga a mystery - had to be interesting and have a resolution that was satisfying. Neither of those happened. A lot of these actors - hard truth - may not be around in a decade. This may be the last time a 10 year anniversary has the chance to use them. That they were used in service of so little makes me quite sad, really. It didn't feel like a celebration. It didn't feel like a tribute. It said nothing profound or new about The Doctor or anyone else. It set up nothing new. It just....exists. Over to you, RTD. Give us something that really gets the excitement up for the anniversary. Even on this thread "it was good" seems about as happy as anyone is. No-one's exactly jumping for joy even if it did work better for them. Let's hope The Toymaker can be a bit more interesting than whatever this was. Great over view there.. I honestly didn't pick "12th" at all.. I will have to do a relisten..
Our comment yesterday, at least mine, was more about the castings that weren't announced anywhere.. To have 5/6/7/War Dr/12 show up..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2023 6:46:41 GMT
Well, I think the fact the 12th Doc has more than one scene and you didn't realise it says all we need to know about Dudman's impression - and BF's insistence he can do Capaldi...they need someone else if they want to do 12th Doctor stories. To listen and not even know who its supposed to be? That's not good.
And the whole Doctor gang have showed up in all the anniversaries - Zagreus, Light At The End, Legacy Of Time - it'd be more surprising if they weren't in this, I'd have thought rather than a surprise.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Oct 26, 2023 9:31:44 GMT
Dan Starkey does a great twelfth Doctor ….
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Post by xlozdob on Oct 27, 2023 0:58:01 GMT
Okay, I took the plunge and decided to try The Union even if I haven't listened to the rest of Once and Future, and I must say I loved it! It was bonkers and a mess and the plot wasn't anywhere near front and centre, but it was fun and it was fanservicey, and I think that's important for a celebratory story of this kind. I loved how well it interacts with Power of the Doctor and I loved what they did with both the Union and the War Doctor in terms of their identities. Dudman's 12 was the only thing I wasn't a fan of, and it hasn't bothered me in other releases, but this wasn't his best eprformance. Otherwise, I'm really happy with everything; the interactions with River and Susan, Maureen's performance, the 13th Doctor reference... After this I might give some of the others a chance, but I'm quite happy with The Union as is, I think it has everything it needs to work standalone, I feel all the pieces I may have missed are explained and/or were supposed to get an answer here anyways.
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Post by Chakoteya on Oct 27, 2023 9:01:04 GMT
I like it when 'known' Who actors take on other roles. Kinda like the old theatre repertory companies with a small cast mucking in doing a rolling series of plays. It gives a chance to show they are more than just a one trick pony, and makes lazy listeners wake up and pay attention. This was fun, with lots of extra references dropped in (those plant names for example). No idea why they're bothering with a coda in 12 months time. Very strange.
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Post by timleschild on Oct 27, 2023 11:52:17 GMT
Okay, I took the plunge and decided to try The Union even if I haven't listened to the rest of Once and Future, and I must say I loved it! It was bonkers and a mess and the plot wasn't anywhere near front and centre, but it was fun and it was fanservicey, and I think that's important for a celebratory story of this kind. I loved how well it interacts with Power of the Doctor and I loved what they did with both the Union and the War Doctor in terms of their identities. Dudman's 12 was the only thing I wasn't a fan of, and it hasn't bothered me in other releases, but this wasn't his best eprformance. Otherwise, I'm really happy with everything; the interactions with River and Susan, Maureen's performance, the 13th Doctor reference... After this I might give some of the others a chance, but I'm quite happy with The Union as is, I think it has everything it needs to work standalone, I feel all the pieces I may have missed are explained and/or were supposed to get an answer here anyways. Interesting listening to this without the others. Maybe I just give this one a go when it goes on sale. But it shows how irrelevant previous episodes are.
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Post by martinw8686 on Oct 27, 2023 12:22:37 GMT
I think any future anniversary releases from Big Finish need to focus on either telling several good individual stories with relevant characters or a well thought out story arc.
For my part I went into Once and Future expecting a story arc with twists and cliffhangers, and found myself dissapointed.
Perhaps next time I should sit back and wait until the run has completed and then I'll know whether the sets are for me.
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Post by timleschild on Oct 27, 2023 12:34:39 GMT
I think any future anniversary releases from Big Finish need to focus on either telling several good individual stories with relevant characters or a well thought out story arc. This could also apply for BF's approach in general.
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Post by chopper on Oct 27, 2023 13:24:44 GMT
Really enjoyed this one for some reason. At one point I thought The Union was going to be Romana's valeyard. And then I thought the Doc was going to degenerate forward into the valeyard but apparently it was supposed to be Capaldi Might get that young war doctor series. The impression is uncanny.
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Post by martinw8686 on Oct 27, 2023 16:25:53 GMT
I think any future anniversary releases from Big Finish need to focus on either telling several good individual stories with relevant characters or a well thought out story arc. This could also apply for BF's approach in general. True. I suppose the intention from the start is always to tell a good story. With something as long and varied as Doctor Who, that's always going to be subjective. I tend to prefer darker psychological, character and plot based or weird timey wimey stories. There's a place for fluff and x meets y but I've had my fill over the years. That said I often go back to The Five Doctors, Day of the Doctor, Dalek Universe, Masterful, The Two Masters, Master and Davros. Perhaps because we've had so many really good x meets y, I'm very hard to please with any new Mash ups. I may give the Union a listen when it's on sale but otherwise I gave up on Once & Future and explored ranges I otherwise would have ignored. I'm so glad I did, I tried and adored River Song:Friend of the Family, Gallifrey, and The New Adventures of Bernice Summerfield.
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Post by nottenst on Oct 27, 2023 17:13:38 GMT
Anyway only 13 months till the Coda to tie up…what exactly. There’s no plot threads left really, so can only assume it’s purpose is to work in cameos they didn’t manage to fit in already. The one thing that comes to mind that wasn't really tied up was the degeneration of The Master. Maybe the Coda fixes and explains that? Or some of River's actions in capturing renegade Time Lords.
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Post by nottenst on Oct 27, 2023 17:41:20 GMT
I finished up the main story right before the meeting I'm attending. I'll listen to the extended extras later (44 minutes compared to the 5 minutes regular interviews). There is also a 15 minute music suite.
Overall I felt The Union was a glorious anniversary story. It had more of an anniversary celebratory feel than the rest of the series, but I do feel it did build on the previous stories.
As far as Once and Future itself - maybe after the Coda comes out (or right before) I'll listen to it all again and see how well it holds together.
I do wonder how much sense it makes for The Union to have evolved from The Twelve, who seemed relatively more stable (but then this Time Lord has fluctuated quite a bit). Maybe that's another idea for the Coda.
More comments after I listen to the extended extras.
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Lots of looking back in the extended extras interviews including Carole Ann Ford telling how she asked Verity why she cast her as Susan.
At 41:30 "The story appears to be all told, but then there is this mysterious 8th episode coming next year, which nobody knows anything about except us" At 43:00 "Hope it does the job of just being a great big party" -- I think the series and this episode did accomplish this.
Again, if you have the special editions with the extended interviews I recommend listening to them. It is great to hear the excitement and delight of the actors and the people working on it behind the scenes.
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