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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 18:21:50 GMT
Very timely article. It shows the business model Panini are sticking to is not unusual. Mills and Gibbons were paid for creating the Star Beast in 1980 and have no creative rights over the story or legal rights to any additional payments. Is what Panini are doing "proper", yes. Is it "nice", no. Think of the nightmares that exist around rights for Doctor Who. If all individuals involved had been contracted on an up-front salary only basis, we would be able to watch An Unearthly Child on iPlayer now.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 27, 2023 18:22:47 GMT
Yeah, that's a big old ooph, though an unintended/well meaning sort - streaming has been the devil for residuals, as the WGA strike discussed this past year, so this might've been an attempt to at least ensure there was something of value for the writer. More money upfront to counteract, basically, the total absence after.
I can only hope that, with the renegotiation, maybe those can be implemented in a future series so writers enjoy a continuous revenue stream over time, not a temporarily bigger one off.
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Post by relativetime on Nov 27, 2023 18:41:09 GMT
So my review probably reads like a confused angry rant...I'm certainly not angry about the episode just somewhat...indifferent? Overall I found the episode reasonably enjoyable but oddly bland/rushed and somewhat emotionally hollow, it was vintage RTD with all his tropes and style on full display (for better or worse), as someone who holds little nostaglia for the first Tennant/Tate era this episode leaned a little too hard into past glories (though that is more my own tastes than an issue with the episode itself) so 'more of the same' 'and remember that' wasn't enough to emotionally engage me. As a 60th anniversary special I felt it was rather forgettable, though this is the 1st of 3rd tighly linked episodes and I think/hope some of my issues will be clarified by the other episodes. A enjoyable enough way to pass a hour, and a solid enough start to RTD2...although I think his style of Who may not really be for me personally as viewer (though I do prefer Eccleston's series rather more than Tennant's run so perhaps it's more the 10th Doctor himself I'm not a huge fan of), I am at least now curious to see what is going to happen next which is a good thing I suppose (honestly I found the Chibnall episodes I watched slightly...boring for the most part...but that's a conversation for a different day). I'd give it either a 5 or 6 out of 10, I think a rewatch is needed. Glad it seems to have gone down well here though, the viewing figures are very promising for the future. Apologies for dropping in after so long and posting a wall of text. Hope you are all well. That's not the impression I got at all. I think going forward it's vital that we can be critical about RTD's writing without being immediately lumped in with the bigots. Because RTD is not a perfect writer, even when it comes to areas he's better at than most other writers like representation and characterization, and pretending like he is will I think can lead to some harsh consequences down the line. Even as someone who liked the episode, a lot of the criticisms you brought up were some of the same problems I had with the episode as well. Thanks for bringing them up and I'm glad to see you back!
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Post by sherlock on Nov 27, 2023 18:46:43 GMT
Panini Groups revenue €751 million (2014). Well, firstly that's Panini Group. Who make most of their money from football stickers. The quoted figure is revenue, not profit, and dates from 2014. Panini UK, who publish Doctor Who Magazine, made a profit last year of £2.8m, compared to a loss of £400k the year before. Still not a small amount, but there's no way of telling if this year is on track to be profitable again. Hats off to Bad Wolf and the BBC though for giving them a payment even when they didn't need to. Mills and Gibbons deserve some reward for the use of their work. Wonder if they got anything when BF did their adaptation? Mills speaks kindly of Big Finish, so presumably they did offer something: In other tweets today Mills learnt for the first time about the recent Fourth Doctor Anthology. Apparently despite sticking his name on the cover Panini didn’t see fit to let him know.
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Post by timleschild on Nov 27, 2023 18:59:15 GMT
Well, firstly that's Panini Group. Who make most of their money from football stickers. The quoted figure is revenue, not profit, and dates from 2014. Panini UK, who publish Doctor Who Magazine, made a profit last year of £2.8m, compared to a loss of £400k the year before. Still not a small amount, but there's no way of telling if this year is on track to be profitable again. Hats off to Bad Wolf and the BBC though for giving them a payment even when they didn't need to. Mills and Gibbons deserve some reward for the use of their work. Wonder if they got anything when BF did their adaptation? Mills speaks kindly of Big Finish, so presumably they did offer something: In other tweets today Mills learnt for the first time about the recent Fourth Doctor Anthology. Apparently despite sticking his name on the cover Panini didn’t see fit to let him know. Bastards
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 19:24:13 GMT
Well, firstly that's Panini Group. Who make most of their money from football stickers. The quoted figure is revenue, not profit, and dates from 2014. Panini UK, who publish Doctor Who Magazine, made a profit last year of £2.8m, compared to a loss of £400k the year before. Still not a small amount, but there's no way of telling if this year is on track to be profitable again. Hats off to Bad Wolf and the BBC though for giving them a payment even when they didn't need to. Mills and Gibbons deserve some reward for the use of their work. Wonder if they got anything when BF did their adaptation? Mills speaks kindly of Big Finish, so presumably they did offer something Good, I'm pleased to hear that.
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Post by daz on Nov 27, 2023 20:05:28 GMT
Seems Rose has a Lupari toy? Off-screen encounters I suppose.
I saw some bright spark mention that Rose is ... a toymaker.
The only thing I didn't like about the ep is that it tries to fix a previous sad ending, as Journey's End does. Some things should stay sad.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 20:24:12 GMT
Seems Rose has a Lupari toy? Off-screen encounters I suppose. I saw some bright spark mention that Rose is ... a toymaker. The only thing I didn't like about the ep is that it tries to fix a previous sad ending, as Journey's End does. Some things should stay sad. Yep, there was a Lupar and a Cyberman, neither of which we saw Donna meet. BF ASSEMBLE! As for the ending....well, we may still get a sad one in 12 days*...who knows! *Feels weird to talk about a Doctor's era knowing it was designed to last for a fortnight. At least McGann's movie was supposed to be a pilot for more at one point!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 21:20:49 GMT
Seems Rose has a Lupari toy? Off-screen encounters I suppose. I saw some bright spark mention that Rose is ... a toymaker. The only thing I didn't like about the ep is that it tries to fix a previous sad ending, as Journey's End does. Some things should stay sad. Yep, there was a Lupar and a Cyberman, neither of which we saw Donna meet. BF ASSEMBLE! As for the ending....well, we may still get a sad one in 12 days*...who knows! *Feels weird to talk about a Doctor's era knowing it was designed to last for a fortnight. At least McGann's movie was supposed to be a pilot for more at one point! Rose was channeling the DoctorDonna though, so could have picked up memories from the Doctor. A Lupar could suggest that subconsciously the Doctor remembers them from Jo Martin's incarnation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 21:36:03 GMT
Yep, there was a Lupar and a Cyberman, neither of which we saw Donna meet. BF ASSEMBLE! As for the ending....well, we may still get a sad one in 12 days*...who knows! *Feels weird to talk about a Doctor's era knowing it was designed to last for a fortnight. At least McGann's movie was supposed to be a pilot for more at one point! Rose was channeling the DoctorDonna though, so could have picked up memories from the Doctor. A Lupar could suggest that subconsciously the Doctor remembers them from Jo Martin's incarnation. OR....the production team thought it looked good and Russell likes what Moffat used to call a "Big Finish gap". As someone who really liked Flux, I loved having a reference to it in there nice and early in this new era!
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 27, 2023 22:24:13 GMT
Yeah, that's a big old ooph, though an unintended/well meaning sort - streaming has been the devil for residuals, as the WGA strike discussed this past year, so this might've been an attempt to at least ensure there was something of value for the writer. More money upfront to counteract, basically, the total absence after.
I can only hope that, with the renegotiation, maybe those can be implemented in a future series so writers enjoy a continuous revenue stream over time, not a temporarily bigger one off.
Not a surprise: comic book writers (DC are “famous” for this) often have their creative rights trampled on, and Disney are notoriously tight-fisted when it comes to residual rights: bleedingcool.com/comics/disney-pay-star-wars-novelists-alan-dean-foster/
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 22:29:11 GMT
First post (hello) - I only came to Big Finish with Tennant and Donna, my fave team. So having them back together was a dream come true both on audio and now on TV.
I adored the Meep. Never read the comics or heard the audio. Why is there not a Meep toy in store for Crimbo?
I cannot afford to keep up with a lot of Big Finish but have all the Tenth Doctor ones and would buy Eleventh Doctor ones in a heartbeat. Outside of the Out Of Time sets and Legacy Of Time, I don't have any classic Doctors (yet) but like Tom the most from what I heard in those. I loved Dalek Universe.
I drifted away from TV a lot in the last decade. Liked Capaldi but didn't love Moffat's use a lot. Couldn't take to Jodie W or Chris C at all so I've not regularly watched for years now, probably 2015. The ones I did see didn't make me stick around again. I'm hoping that David and Catherine returning and then handing over to the new man will give me reasons to keep watching.
x
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 28, 2023 9:17:21 GMT
Yeah, that's a big old ooph, though an unintended/well meaning sort - streaming has been the devil for residuals, as the WGA strike discussed this past year, so this might've been an attempt to at least ensure there was something of value for the writer. More money upfront to counteract, basically, the total absence after.
If you've followed the WGA Strike thread, you've seen US writers provide personal info on the effect of this, but if you want a British POV and a little background on how much of a shift this is, take a gander here from a Medici and Last Kingdom writer:
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Post by mark687 on Nov 28, 2023 9:34:01 GMT
Yeah, that's a big old ooph, though an unintended/well meaning sort - streaming has been the devil for residuals, as the WGA strike discussed this past year, so this might've been an attempt to at least ensure there was something of value for the writer. More money upfront to counteract, basically, the total absence after.
If you've followed the WGA Strike thread, you've seen US writers provide personal info on the effect of this, but if you want a British POV and a little background on how much of a shift this is, take a gander here from a Medici and Last Kingdom writer:
See I Read that intital announcement as being better, and of course UK based Creatives have a double bite of the cherry with their Union arrangements. Regards mark687
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 28, 2023 10:12:05 GMT
If you've followed the WGA Strike thread, you've seen US writers provide personal info on the effect of this, but if you want a British POV and a little background on how much of a shift this is, take a gander here from a Medici and Last Kingdom writer:
See I Read that intital announcement as being better, as of course UK based Creatives have a double bite of the cherry with their Union arrangements. Regards mark687 But it's a not a double bite, is it? Just a bigger one, and even that's debatable without an actual figure to see. Residuals are what gets you through the lean times, they are basically your 'salary' from the show. Petzal has spoken before (impressively candidly too) about the ways streamers have devalued writing in the UK, how the illusion of prestige and access hides exactly what the WGA fought to stop in the US.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 28, 2023 10:47:28 GMT
See I Read that intital announcement as being better, as of course UK based Creatives have a double bite of the cherry with their Union arrangements. Regards mark687 But it's a not a double bite, is it? Just a bigger one, and even that's debatable without an actual figure to see. Residuals are what gets you through the lean times, they are basically your 'salary' from the show. Petzal has spoken before (impressively candidly too) about the ways streamers have devalued writing in the UK, how the illusion of prestige and access hides exactly what the WGA fought to stop in the US.
Sorry so a Writer only works and gets payed based on the terms of the Union that the company they are hired by recognize ? So in reality from a Writer's POV the Strike did very little to nothing for them (5-7% general increase and indeterminant Bonus per X number of Streams which is itself determined by the Studios) Regards mark687
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 28, 2023 10:59:20 GMT
But it's a not a double bite, is it? Just a bigger one, and even that's debatable without an actual figure to see. Residuals are what gets you through the lean times, they are basically your 'salary' from the show. Petzal has spoken before (impressively candidly too) about the ways streamers have devalued writing in the UK, how the illusion of prestige and access hides exactly what the WGA fought to stop in the US.
Sorry so a Writer only works and gets payed based on the terms of the Union that the company they are hired by recognize ? So in reality from a Writer's POV the Strike did very little to nothing for them (5-7% general increase and indeterminant Bonus per X number of Streams which is itself determined by the Studios) Regards mark687 What unions set is usually the minimum - depending on who you work for (i.e. not a penny-pincher) you can get more, but the rules stop them from paying less and those wins, especially getting anything out of streaming and increases to health and pension payments, is not nothing (heck, one of those was why the studios kept refusing to agree, and then had to fold). The issue is those wins are not available, most of them anyway, outside the US and the WGGB is a less powerful body than the WGA, to fight for them though they do try.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 28, 2023 12:29:49 GMT
Sorry so a Writer only works and gets payed based on the terms of the Union that the company they are hired by recognize ? So in reality from a Writer's POV the Strike did very little to nothing for them (5-7% general increase and indeterminant Bonus per X number of Streams which is itself determined by the Studios) Regards mark687 What unions set is usually the minimum - depending on who you work for (i.e. not a penny-pincher) you can get more, but the rules stop them from paying less and those wins, especially getting anything out of streaming and increases to health and pension payments, is not nothing (heck, one of those was why the studios kept refusing to agree, and then had to fold). The issue is those wins are not available, most of them anyway, outside the US and the WGGB is a less powerful body than the WGA, to fight for them though they do try.
In relation to content produced for TV I didn't see the words "Repeat Broadcast or Catch-up TV"? Regards mark687
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Post by bonehead on Nov 28, 2023 15:38:11 GMT
What do you mean I'm three days late? I may not have contributed to the impressive overnight viewing figures, but I've bumped up the I-Player viewings a bit.
I enjoyed this in a bright and breezy way. Ultimately it all felt a little hollow but, as someone reminded me, this is only the first chapter of what might be a trilogy, or possibly something more. It was an RTD-style romp, a bit of fun. However, the 'crash-bang-wallop' of it all did chuck up a few bits and bobs I wasn't sure about. To be blunt, if Murray Gold had left Who alongside David Tennant (the first time around), I'd have remembered his music a lot more fondly. As it is, he stayed, and left - and then came back! Not a scene, a moment, a nuance is left unscored. It's far too much. It's as if someone mentioned the word 'Disney' to him this time around, and he seems to have given The Star Beast the same kind of overwhelming soundscape that might be given to Peter Pan or something. His new theme music is loud and bombastic but continues to rob Ron Grainer's eerie tune of any of its sinister, unsettling qualities. Segun - who I miss greatly - at least imbued his version of the theme with the kind of ghostly howl that has the hairs standing up on the back of the neck. Here, the theme is crashing orchestral loudness and the score is intrusive and the nadir, I'm afraid, of the episode. The best character and performance for me, was (Nu) Rose. Yasmin Finney played her entirely as real. No gurning, face-pulling or OTT line delivery. As such, when she was taunted by the bike-riding locals, I really felt for her. She reacted as if these put-downs happened every day - which they probably did. Not that I'm knocking David Tennant and Catherine Tate. Yes, they're OTT, but in an enjoyable way, and play off each other brilliantly, especially the comedy exchanges - their timing is perfect and I'm sorry they'll be gone so soon. Miriam Margolyes was great as the Meep, especially in the early 'humble' moments. Great, fast and wild fun. A nit-pick to be sure, but the return of the Doctor getting well and truly slapped by 'the mother-in-law' (in this case Sylvia). Played for laughs, just as such scenes had been in the past (Murray's music reminds us of this, naturally). If Yaz's Dad had given Jodie's Doctor such a back-hander for kidnapping his daughter, would that be quite so hilarious? Probably not. This wouldn't bother me so much if RTD were not so public with his desire to be tolerant and understanding in his writing. This and constant cries of 'Oh my God' would seem out of place given that Russell's desire was not to alienate anyone's preferences and beliefs. I think that covers it. There were moments of true originality and comedy, moments of cheese (the Wrarth (?) warriors, the surprisingly obvious CGI explosions on the console), and not so many scares (could have done with more). On the whole, I'd say it was Doctor Who with a huge Disney leaning. It is what it is. Not my favourite incarnation of the show thus far but of course, early days. Incidentally, two points about the expensive-looking new console room. 1. If the TARDIS has the skill to produce a room as big as an airport hanger, why can't it change out of its bothersome Police Box exterior (did the Doctor say he'd grown fond of the look at one stage? Can't remember) and 2. What's the point of having such a large room if you're only going to be standing around the comparatively small console in the middle of it?
Right. Carry on.
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Post by timleschild on Nov 28, 2023 15:46:38 GMT
To be blunt, if Murray Gold had left Who alongside David Tennant (the first time around), I'd have remembered his music a lot more fondly. As it is, he stayed, and left - and then came back! Not a scene, a moment, a nuance is left unscored. It's far too much. It's as if someone mentioned the word 'Disney' to him this time around, and he seems to have given The Star Beast the same kind of overwhelming soundscape that might be given to Peter Pan or something. His new theme music is loud and bombastic but continues to rob Ron Grainer's eerie tune of any of it's sinister, unsettling qualities. Segun - who I miss greatly - at least embued his version of the theme with the kind of ghostly howl that has the hairs standing up on the back of the neck. Here, the theme is crashing orchestral loudness and the score is intrusive and the nadir, I'm afraid, of the episode, as it had been the nadir of latter day series. Agree 100%. Aural diarrhea.
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