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Post by timleschild on Dec 8, 2023 19:44:31 GMT
Certainly it has changed many times, but 'Doctor Who' has always been able to accomodate fantasy elements within its broad Panopticon, along with more traditional science fiction 'monsters' and situations. How much more 'fantasy' does it need to get than the Toymaker and the Mind Robber, for example? Or, in the middle of the Earth-action UNIT era, Kronos and the Minotaur. ('The Scorchies' are definitely pushing it but I loved the idea and BF have the scope to go 'out there' with a huge quantity of stories to tell across many ranges.)
I think it's the use of the word 'fantasy' together with the new deal that makes me wonder where it all might end, and to hope it doesn't.
Let's not forget that the moon is an egg and that the best solution to solar flares wiping out the earth is for a fireproof forest to spring up overnight and then abruptly disappear again. I can't see RTD taking us anywhere worse than those I think he did with everyone wishing for Doctor Who to save the day in Last of the Timelords.
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Post by number13 on Dec 8, 2023 19:44:40 GMT
Certainly it has changed many times, but 'Doctor Who' has always been able to accomodate fantasy elements within its broad Panopticon, along with more traditional science fiction 'monsters' and situations. How much more 'fantasy' does it need to get than the Toymaker and the Mind Robber, for example? Or, in the middle of the Earth-action UNIT era, Kronos and the Minotaur. ('The Scorchies' are definitely pushing it but I loved the idea and BF have the scope to go 'out there' with a huge quantity of stories to tell across many ranges.)
I think it's the use of the word 'fantasy' together with the new deal that makes me wonder where it all might end, and to hope it doesn't.
Let's not forget that the moon is an egg and that the best solution to solar flares wiping out the earth is for a fireproof forest to spring up overnight and then abruptly disappear again. I can't see RTD taking us anywhere worse than those And just when I'd almost managed to forget about those episodes, you have to remind me!
Yes, they were appallingly bad, and after such a great start to 'Kill the Moon', what happened felt even worse. Now, imagine if 'Doctor Who' went that way not as a strange and jarring anomaly, but as a deliberate change of style.
It probably won't, but if it does I'll be somewhere in the UNIT bunker with my classic blu-rays and a hatch for the postie to push the latest BF CDs through! You can message me when they reboot it again and it's safe to emerge.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2023 19:49:18 GMT
Let's not forget that the moon is an egg and that the best solution to solar flares wiping out the earth is for a fireproof forest to spring up overnight and then abruptly disappear again. I can't see RTD taking us anywhere worse than those I think he did with everyone wishing for Doctor Who to save the day in Last of the Timelords. Good point, well made.
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 8, 2023 22:22:50 GMT
A sly shift towards fantasy? What does that mean exactly?
When I think about fantasy in fiction, I think Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings, or perhaps witchcraft and fairy tales.
By a sly shift towards fantasy, does RTD mean simply the fantastic things we see will get no scientific explanation, we just have to except they exist.
Or does it mean less travelling to alien worlds and more portals to Narnia?
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 8, 2023 22:31:07 GMT
A sly shift towards fantasy? What does that mean exactly? When I think about fantasy in fiction, I think Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings, or perhaps witchcraft and fairy tales. By a sly shift towards fantasy, does RTD mean simply the fantastic things we see will get no scientific explanation, we just have to except they exist. Or does it mean less travelling to alien worlds and more portals to Narnia? Like I said elsewhere, I don't think we should take this literally. Fantasy can just be be less concerned with hard science and really grounded/realistic settings and stories, and be more willing to play with the absurd - Mind Robber falls into that camp, as does Celestial Toymaker, Carnival of Monsters, Androids of Tara and Ghost Light, among other examples.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 8, 2023 22:35:08 GMT
Let's not forget that the moon is an egg and that the best solution to solar flares wiping out the earth is for a fireproof forest to spring up overnight and then abruptly disappear again. I can't see RTD taking us anywhere worse than those And just when I'd almost managed to forget about those episodes, you have to remind me!
Yes, they were appallingly bad, and after such a great start to 'Kill the Moon', what happened felt even worse. Now, imagine if 'Doctor Who' went that way not as a strange and jarring anomaly, but as a deliberate change of style. From what we've seen, we're getting a mix in the new era - we've got Years and Years-esque dystopic satire with a mysterious party called Albion (with a giant brainwashing slug for good measure), a Regency episode featuring Mozart and what we've seen leak out from the current filming, possibly 15 and Ruby battling Alex Jones-ian conspiracy theorists. Ncuti also wants to fight Weeping Angels and do a story about African folklore.
Right now, it's really anyone's guess where we go next, which is actually quite fitting.
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 8, 2023 22:36:42 GMT
I can cope with that kind of shift, which is more likely than the worry The Doctor will start riding a unicorn to battle orcs.
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Post by number13 on Dec 8, 2023 23:27:56 GMT
I can cope with that kind of shift, which is more likely than the worry The Doctor will start riding a unicorn to battle orcs. Bareback, of course, because 'no-one who valued his life would suggest putting a saddle on a unicorn.'
It must be 50 years since I read the 'Narnia' series and the words of C.S.Lewis can still pop up unbidden! (From 'The Last Battle' I think.) What a superb writer, great books.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2023 23:31:40 GMT
A sly shift towards fantasy? What does that mean exactly? When I think about fantasy in fiction, I think Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings, or perhaps witchcraft and fairy tales.
By a sly shift towards fantasy, does RTD mean simply the fantastic things we see will get no scientific explanation, we just have to except they exist. Or does it mean less travelling to alien worlds and more portals to Narnia?Which Moffat did with The Doctor, The Widow And The Wardrobe. And we've had witches in Shakespeare Code and fairies in Torchwood (a brilliant ep written by P.J. Hammond of Sapphire & Steel fame) which just illustrates further that fantasy is nothing new. It'll be no more hard fantasy than it will be hard sci-fi - just a bit more whimsical. But Ncuti's not gonna be Gandalf all of a sudden. It's still Doctor Who. There will be aliens and monsters and UNIT and eventually Cybermen and Daleks and The Master and a few RTD words getting blown up will be long forgotten.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2023 23:32:56 GMT
I can cope with that kind of shift, which is more likely than the worry The Doctor will start riding a unicorn to battle orcs. Bareback, of course, because 'no-one who valued his life would suggest putting a saddle on a unicorn.'
It must be 50 years since I read the 'Narnia' series and the words of C.S.Lewis can still pop up unbidden! (From 'The Last Battle' I think.) What a superb writer, great books. Tom as Puddleglum in the BBC series when I was a kid is still one of the best bits of casting possible.
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 9, 2023 12:19:20 GMT
Bareback, of course, because 'no-one who valued his life would suggest putting a saddle on a unicorn.'
It must be 50 years since I read the 'Narnia' series and the words of C.S.Lewis can still pop up unbidden! (From 'The Last Battle' I think.) What a superb writer, great books. Tom as Puddleglum in the BBC series when I was a kid is still one of the best bits of casting possible. When I first met my wife and I said Tom Baker was my favourite classic Doctor, she replied " Respectabiggle Marshwiggle".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 12:29:19 GMT
Tom as Puddleglum in the BBC series when I was a kid is still one of the best bits of casting possible. When I first met my wife and I said Tom Baker was my favourite classic Doctor, she replied " Respectabiggle Marshwiggle". Sign of a keeper!
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 9, 2023 15:50:11 GMT
When I first met my wife and I said Tom Baker was my favourite classic Doctor, she replied " Respectabiggle Marshwiggle". Sign of a keeper! She certainly is, bless her. She likes sci-fi and fantasy and we're both proud geeks but she's more of a casual follower of nu Who. I'm very lucky she's happy to share me with my favourite show.
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Post by timleschild on Dec 9, 2023 19:36:07 GMT
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 9, 2023 19:40:08 GMT
Yep, we are very much not in 'Rose' or 05 territory anymore. In fact, feels like there's a dash of Queer as Folk in the opening.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Dec 9, 2023 19:43:20 GMT
Yeah, this looks OK as well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 21:30:31 GMT
First time hearing Ncuti doing the "click below to subscribe.." - what a treat!
Here's a clip of The Goblin Song
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Post by mark687 on Dec 9, 2023 21:36:57 GMT
The Stetson features early on then
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 21:51:35 GMT
Tennant (times 3), Capaldi and now Ncuti...plenty of Scottish Doctors in the last wee while (Tennant loses points for not keeping the accent), but not sure any of them but the last could pull off going clubbing in a kilt. Ncuti has a cheeky campness that I am ALL over. As he's mentioned.. as the first queer actor in the role, he's loving the reinvention it can bring, and in turn I think he's bringing it SO up to date.
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Post by sherlock on Dec 11, 2023 12:05:55 GMT
Here’s the song. Goblins bragging about how they’re going to eat a baby - happy Christmas! 😂
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