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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Apr 2, 2016 8:59:04 GMT
So what? That's not the point. The BAFTA isn't for who the best actor is in general but who gave the best performance in one individual role. How many of those performances in those shows have you seen? Not just "I've seen them in other things". Have you actually seen Wolf Hall or This Is England '90? I haven't but I highly doubt their performances were even near as great as Peter Capaldi's in any moment in series 9.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Apr 2, 2016 9:00:02 GMT
So what? That's not the point. The BAFTA isn't for who the best actor is in general but who gave the best performance in one individual role. How many of those performances in those shows have you seen? Not just "I've seen them in other things". Have you actually seen Wolf Hall or This Is England '90? Mark Rylance was superb as Cromwell. However, Capaldi was sublime.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 2, 2016 10:34:01 GMT
So what? That's not the point. The BAFTA isn't for who the best actor is in general but who gave the best performance in one individual role. How many of those performances in those shows have you seen? Not just "I've seen them in other things". Have you actually seen Wolf Hall or This Is England '90? Mark Rylance was superb as Cromwell. However, Capaldi was sublime. Definitely, NOT sublime!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 11:57:33 GMT
Rylance was every bit as astounding as Capaldi for my money though trying to say one is better when they're both so wonderful, in completely different ways, is one of the reason I don't care for these awards.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 12:00:52 GMT
So what? That's not the point. The BAFTA isn't for who the best actor is in general but who gave the best performance in one individual role. How many of those performances in those shows have you seen? Not just "I've seen them in other things". Have you actually seen Wolf Hall or This Is England '90? I haven't but I highly doubt their performances were even near as great as Peter Capaldi's in any moment in series 9. You can't take umbrage when you've seen none of them. Challenge your assumptions.
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Post by jasonward on Apr 2, 2016 12:23:00 GMT
Well, first time I've said this, as I so much wanted Capaldi to be a great Doctor, but personally I don't rate his Doctor at all. I find the characterisation to be weak, I personally wouldn't nominate or expect Capaldi to be nominated for his portrayal of The Doctor.
But doesn't this just show that opinions vary, and that neither yours nor mine are those that matter or count when it comes to BAFTA nominations, so it should be no surprise that their nominations don't conform to our personal preferences.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Apr 2, 2016 17:52:01 GMT
Well, first time I've said this, as I so much wanted Capaldi to be a great Doctor, but personally I don't rate his Doctor at all. I find the characterisation to be weak, I personally wouldn't nominate or expect Capaldi to be nominated for his portrayal of The Doctor. What, not even after The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 20:47:42 GMT
Well, first time I've said this, as I so much wanted Capaldi to be a great Doctor, but personally I don't rate his Doctor at all. I find the characterisation to be weak, I personally wouldn't nominate or expect Capaldi to be nominated for his portrayal of The Doctor. What, not even after The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion? Personally I thought that was one of his weakest stories. the characterisation was woefully inconsistent, making it very difficult to get a handle on him. From his spending much of the first episode mooching around with hands in pockets doing nothing, to practising his big smile after being shot down (apparently forgetting the plane crew had just been killed), to doing strnge Doctor Disco stuff, it was all just painful. Yes, he had one good monologue at the end, but that does not a Bafta nomination make. Heaven Sent, now that I thought might have got him nominated. That was superb.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Apr 2, 2016 22:14:01 GMT
What, not even after The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion? Personally I thought that was one of his weakest stories. the characterisation was woefully inconsistent, making it very difficult to get a handle on him. From his spending much of the first episode mooching around with hands in pockets doing nothing, to practising his big smile after being shot down (apparently forgetting the plane crew had just been killed), to doing strnge Doctor Disco stuff, it was all just painful. Yes, he had one good monologue at the end, but that does not a Bafta nomination make. If that doesn't automatically guarantee someone a BAFTA, then I don't know what does.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Apr 3, 2016 12:50:09 GMT
Personally I thought that was one of his weakest stories. the characterisation was woefully inconsistent, making it very difficult to get a handle on him. From his spending much of the first episode mooching around with hands in pockets doing nothing, to practising his big smile after being shot down (apparently forgetting the plane crew had just been killed), to doing strnge Doctor Disco stuff, it was all just painful. Yes, he had one good monologue at the end, but that does not a Bafta nomination make. If that doesn't automatically guarantee someone a BAFTA, then I don't know what does. Nothing does. That's not how it works.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Apr 3, 2016 12:51:58 GMT
I haven't but I highly doubt their performances were even near as great as Peter Capaldi's in any moment in series 9. You can't take umbrage when you've seen none of them. Challenge your assumptions. Here here. If you haven't seen the nominees, you can't with ANY merit say someone else should be there instead. No matter how good the other person was.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Apr 6, 2016 8:28:48 GMT
Only Doctor Who fans can complain about one of their stars being nominated for a BAFTA !
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Post by mrperson on Apr 7, 2016 0:09:49 GMT
Well, first time I've said this, as I so much wanted Capaldi to be a great Doctor, but personally I don't rate his Doctor at all. I find the characterisation to be weak, I personally wouldn't nominate or expect Capaldi to be nominated for his portrayal of The Doctor. But doesn't this just show that opinions vary, and that neither yours nor mine are those that matter or count when it comes to BAFTA nominations, so it should be no surprise that their nominations don't conform to our personal preferences. I'm not entirely sure what to make of him because Capaldi S8 was not at all Capaldi S9. It's as if he was told to be more like S6-7 Smith, for S9. And turned into an aging rocker because...stuff. I guess. I really preferred the more detached and snappy Capaldi from S8. Grumpness of Hartnell with some Pertwee style condescension, plus his own influence. A little bit more Moffat bashing: as far as I can recall, the only time the Doctor's character has seemed to change significantly between TV seasons has been under Moffat's direction. And I do not like that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 10:23:01 GMT
Well, first time I've said this, as I so much wanted Capaldi to be a great Doctor, but personally I don't rate his Doctor at all. I find the characterisation to be weak, I personally wouldn't nominate or expect Capaldi to be nominated for his portrayal of The Doctor. But doesn't this just show that opinions vary, and that neither yours nor mine are those that matter or count when it comes to BAFTA nominations, so it should be no surprise that their nominations don't conform to our personal preferences. I'm not entirely sure what to make of him because Capaldi S8 was not at all Capaldi S9. It's as if he was told to be more like S6-7 Smith, for S9. And turned into an aging rocker because...stuff. I guess. I really preferred the more detached and snappy Capaldi from S8. Grumpness of Hartnell with some Pertwee style condescension, plus his own influence. A little bit more Moffat bashing: as far as I can recall, the only time the Doctor's character has seemed to change significantly between TV seasons has been under Moffat's direction. And I do not like that. here here! Doctor Disco indeed. Humph.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Apr 7, 2016 19:47:13 GMT
Well, first time I've said this, as I so much wanted Capaldi to be a great Doctor, but personally I don't rate his Doctor at all. I find the characterisation to be weak, I personally wouldn't nominate or expect Capaldi to be nominated for his portrayal of The Doctor. But doesn't this just show that opinions vary, and that neither yours nor mine are those that matter or count when it comes to BAFTA nominations, so it should be no surprise that their nominations don't conform to our personal preferences. I'm not entirely sure what to make of him because Capaldi S8 was not at all Capaldi S9. It's as if he was told to be more like S6-7 Smith, for S9. And turned into an aging rocker because...stuff. I guess. I really preferred the more detached and snappy Capaldi from S8. Grumpness of Hartnell with some Pertwee style condescension, plus his own influence. A little bit more Moffat bashing: as far as I can recall, the only time the Doctor's character has seemed to change significantly between TV seasons has been under Moffat's direction. And I do not like that. I think he definitely seems like the same Doctor. Also: you Hartnell comparison doesn't help your case as he mellowed over time much like Peter Capaldi's between series 8 and series 9.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 1:14:53 GMT
I'm not entirely sure what to make of him because Capaldi S8 was not at all Capaldi S9. It's as if he was told to be more like S6-7 Smith, for S9. And turned into an aging rocker because...stuff. I guess. I really preferred the more detached and snappy Capaldi from S8. Grumpness of Hartnell with some Pertwee style condescension, plus his own influence. A little bit more Moffat bashing: as far as I can recall, the only time the Doctor's character has seemed to change significantly between TV seasons has been under Moffat's direction. And I do not like that. I think he definitely seems like the same Doctor. Also: you Hartnell comparison doesn't help your case as he mellowed over time much like Peter Capaldi's between series 8 and series 9. Not quite in the same way. Remember in the rescue he sat in Koquillion's lair in The Rescue knowing that he'd have to kill him, he threatens to throw Ian and Barbara off the TARDIS several times over the course of their journey, happily beats the crap out of an assassin sent after him in The Romans, thanks the Cybermen for their murder of General Cutter and sent the War Machines in to destroy WOTAN knowing that it would probably kill Professors Brett and Krimpton in the process. He's one of my favourite Doctors precisely for that reason actually. He's not anti-violence or even anti-killing, he's all about murder being used always and exclusively as a defensive measure. He would never take a life unless it threatened his own. Then you get exchanges like this from The Daleks' Master Plan: VYON: Now look here, I don't care what happens to you, but I've got to warn Earth! DOCTOR: Yes, and you will have to do far more than that! If the Daleks are doing something drastic, then we have to stop the Daleks! Now will you shut up, sir. Hmm? DOCTOR: You brainless idiot. VYON: He deserved worse. DOCTOR: Possibly. But now we'll never know who we can trust. It's very rare for a Doctor's whole personality to be rewritten between each year, the only Doctor whom I can remember that happening to is the Seventh and even then there were glimmerings in Dragonfire of where he was going with his decision to travel to Iceworld.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Apr 8, 2016 12:32:22 GMT
I think he definitely seems like the same Doctor. Also: you Hartnell comparison doesn't help your case as he mellowed over time much like Peter Capaldi's between series 8 and series 9. Not quite in the same way. Remember in the rescue he sat in Koquillion's lair in The Rescue knowing that he'd have to kill him, he threatens to throw Ian and Barbara off the TARDIS several times over the course of their journey, happily beats the crap out of an assassin sent after him in The Romans, thanks the Cybermen for their murder of General Cutter and sent the War Machines in to destroy WOTAN knowing that it would probably kill Professors Brett and Krimpton in the process. He's one of my favourite Doctors precisely for that reason actually. He's not anti-violence or even anti-killing, he's all about murder being used always and exclusively as a defensive measure. He would never take a life unless it threatened his own. Then you get exchanges like this from The Daleks' Master Plan: VYON: Now look here, I don't care what happens to you, but I've got to warn Earth! DOCTOR: Yes, and you will have to do far more than that! If the Daleks are doing something drastic, then we have to stop the Daleks! Now will you shut up, sir. Hmm? DOCTOR: You brainless idiot. VYON: He deserved worse. DOCTOR: Possibly. But now we'll never know who we can trust. It's very rare for a Doctor's whole personality to be rewritten between each year, the only Doctor whom I can remember that happening to is the Seventh and even then there were glimmerings in Dragonfire of where he was going with his decision to travel to Iceworld. Well, the 12th Doctor doesn't seem bothered about the crew destined to die and become 'ghosts' in Under The Lake/Before The Flood (Only his companion Clara - this is even pointed out to him in the episode) and he threatens Ashildir in Face The Raven so signs of how he was in series 8 are still there. He has just mellowed like the 1st Doctor over time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 12:49:37 GMT
Well, the 12th Doctor doesn't seem bothered about the crew destined to die and become 'ghosts' in Under The Lake/Before The Flood (Only his companion Clara - this is even pointed out to him in the episode) and he threatens Ashildir in Face The Raven so signs of how he was in series 8 are still there. He has just mellowed like the 1st Doctor over time. Oh, I'm not saying some of his original traits didn't carry over, that's a given. I just agree with mrperson that the change was seriously abrupt between seasons, even though a few traits here and there passed over. He turned into Matt Smith in this latest season with Dr. Disco and his attempts to be "cool" and in a way, we've lost this new Twelfth Doctor to the shadow of his predecessor somewhat.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Apr 8, 2016 13:24:12 GMT
Well, the 12th Doctor doesn't seem bothered about the crew destined to die and become 'ghosts' in Under The Lake/Before The Flood (Only his companion Clara - this is even pointed out to him in the episode) and he threatens Ashildir in Face The Raven so signs of how he was in series 8 are still there. He has just mellowed like the 1st Doctor over time. Oh, I'm not saying some of his original traits didn't carry over, that's a given. I just agree with mrperson that the change was seriously abrupt between seasons, even though a few traits here and there passed over. He turned into Matt Smith in this latest season with Dr. Disco and his attempts to be "cool" and in a way, we've lost this new Twelfth Doctor to the shadow of his predecessor somewhat. I think that's more a natural progression for the character though. Most of his actions during series 8 were due to his confusion over whether he was a 'good man' and this was solved in Death In Heaven. We also see the character progress into how he appears in series 9 in Last Christmas and his development arguably continues right up until Face The Raven, where afterwards he is sent spiralling over the edge again when Clara dies and becomes more akin to series 8 12. Now he can't remember who Clara is, he'll probably be more like series 8 Doctor than series 9 Doctor in series 10.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 3:14:44 GMT
Oh, I'm not saying some of his original traits didn't carry over, that's a given. I just agree with mrperson that the change was seriously abrupt between seasons, even though a few traits here and there passed over. He turned into Matt Smith in this latest season with Dr. Disco and his attempts to be "cool" and in a way, we've lost this new Twelfth Doctor to the shadow of his predecessor somewhat. I think that's more a natural progression for the character though. Most of his actions during series 8 were due to his confusion over whether he was a 'good man' and this was solved in Death In Heaven. We also see the character progress into how he appears in series 9 in Last Christmas and his development arguably continues right up until Face The Raven, where afterwards he is sent spiralling over the edge again when Clara dies and becomes more akin to series 8 12. Now he can't remember who Clara is, he'll probably be more like series 8 Doctor than series 9 Doctor in series 10. Or some sort of strange hybrid of the two. It'll be interesting to see where they take his character from here on out, I hope he stays on for Chris Chibnall's run as producer.
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