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Post by Tim Bradley on May 21, 2016 10:22:32 GMT
There's a neat little short story called "The Duke of Dominoes" by Marc Platt that features what appears to be the Delgado Master in the starring role that seems to take place towards the end of his life as the Fourth Doctor and Sarah make a cameo (albeit one in with neither party ever meet). H.P. Lovecraft also meets what I think is again the Delgado incarnation within a recently revived Silurian shelter in a story called "Masters of Terror" from memory. Thanks wolfie. I've added 'The Duke of Dominoes' to the Master's timeline. That's the first 'Decalog' short story I've added to any timeline. I'm afraid I can't find any info about 'Masters of Terror' with H.P. Lovecraft. I don't know if anyone can help with more info on this story and where it comes from. Thanks. Tim.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 1:33:59 GMT
There's a neat little short story called "The Duke of Dominoes" by Marc Platt that features what appears to be the Delgado Master in the starring role that seems to take place towards the end of his life as the Fourth Doctor and Sarah make a cameo (albeit one in with neither party ever meet). H.P. Lovecraft also meets what I think is again the Delgado incarnation within a recently revived Silurian shelter in a story called "Masters of Terror" from memory. Thanks wolfie. I've added 'The Duke of Dominoes' to the Master's timeline. That's the first 'Decalog' short story I've added to any timeline. I'm afraid I can't find any info about 'Masters of Terror' with H.P. Lovecraft. I don't know if anyone can help with more info on this story and where it comes from. Thanks. Tim. Happy to help, Tim. I thought "Masters of Terror" was originally from one of the Virgin Decalogs as well, but it turns out it's from a charity anthology called Perfect Timing, so I'll leave it with you as whether or not to consider it part of the timeline canon. You can find information on it here: www.drwhoguide.com/perfect1.htm
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Post by Tim Bradley on May 22, 2016 7:43:36 GMT
Thanks wolfie. I've added 'The Duke of Dominoes' to the Master's timeline. That's the first 'Decalog' short story I've added to any timeline. I'm afraid I can't find any info about 'Masters of Terror' with H.P. Lovecraft. I don't know if anyone can help with more info on this story and where it comes from. Thanks. Tim. Happy to help, Tim. I thought "Masters of Terror" was originally from one of the Virgin Decalogs as well, but it turns out it's from a charity anthology called Perfect Timing, so I'll leave it with you as whether or not to consider it part of the timeline canon. You can find information on it here: www.drwhoguide.com/perfect1.htmThanks wolfie. I've now added 'Masters of Terror' to the Master's timeline. Tim.
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Post by elgranto on Jun 2, 2016 6:38:47 GMT
Apparently the Master makes cameos in the following BBC Eighth Doctor novels: Sometime Never..., The Deadstone Memorial, and The Gallifrey Chronicles. You can fit them between "The Glorious Dead" and 'The Forgotten/Prologue' if you like. Cheers.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jun 2, 2016 7:26:14 GMT
Apparently the Master makes cameos in the following BBC Eighth Doctor novels: Sometime Never..., The Deadstone Memorial, and The Gallifrey Chronicles. You can fit them between "The Glorious Dead" and 'The Forgotten/Prologue' if you like. Cheers. Thanks for this, elgranto!
As I'm unfamiliar with the BBC Eighth Doctor novels (when I'll get to read them, I don't know. I've only read 'The Eight Doctors' from that range), this info is very handy.
Thanks. Tim.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 20, 2016 22:35:57 GMT
This is a bit innacurate as of The Two Masters. {Spoiler} Some of the flashbacks in The Two Masters should be in between Frontier in Space and Deadly Assassin. And You Will Obey Me should be somewhere shortly before UNIT Dominion, and Vampire of the Mind should be after the flashbacks in Two Masters and before Deadly Assassin.
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Post by constonks on Jun 21, 2016 0:03:42 GMT
This is a bit innacurate as of The Two Masters. {Spoiler} Some of the flashbacks in The Two Masters should be in between Frontier in Space and Deadly Assassin. And You Will Obey Me should be somewhere shortly before UNIT Dominion, and Vampire of the Mind should be after the flashbacks in Two Masters and before Deadly Assassin. Not quite. UNIT: Dominion is mentioned in dialogue during The Two Masters, as Macqueen mentions having broken into Terserus base much later in its life. I'd personally place this one at the end of Macqueen's timeline for now, but that's up for debate.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 21, 2016 1:54:20 GMT
This is a bit innacurate as of The Two Masters. {Spoiler} Some of the flashbacks in The Two Masters should be in between Frontier in Space and Deadly Assassin. And You Will Obey Me should be somewhere shortly before UNIT Dominion, and Vampire of the Mind should be after the flashbacks in Two Masters and before Deadly Assassin. Not quite. UNIT: Dominion is mentioned in dialogue during The Two Masters, as Macqueen mentions having broken into Terserus base much later in its life. I'd personally place this one at the end of Macqueen's timeline for now, but that's up for debate.
Was Dominion immediately after he stole the data on the dimensioneers from Tersurus?
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Post by constonks on Jun 21, 2016 4:23:30 GMT
Hm. The only reference in The Two Masters is "Very clever. Second time I’ve broken into this place. Though that was later in its life, obviously. They really should look into their security. Been a while since I've heard Dominion, but you might have a point there.
Although putting Dominion right after The Two Masters does make the Master's plan of calling himself the Doctor - to the incarnation of the Doctor who clearly recognized him - a bit of a risk. I figured that Dominion was McCoy's first story with Macqueen AND Macqueen's first story with McCoy (even if I'm pretty sure one or two of his McGann stories came first).
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 21, 2016 4:56:12 GMT
I'm pretty sure there was a line when Macqueen in Beevers' body mentioned that he didn't recognize McCoy which is why I assumed it was pre-Dominion. Of course, he should remember him from Survival, Dust Breeding, and Master anyway, so maybe he was just lying so that the Doctor wouldn't realize which Master he was dealing with.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 5:32:47 GMT
I'm pretty sure there was a line when Macqueen in Beevers' body mentioned that he didn't recognize McCoy which is why I assumed it was pre-Dominion. Of course, he should remember him from Survival, Dust Breeding, and Master anyway, so maybe he was just lying so that the Doctor wouldn't realize which Master he was dealing with. I think that was Beevers in Macqueens body.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jun 21, 2016 10:58:13 GMT
Thanks guys for your helpful info about 'The Two Masters' and other info. I've done my best with adding the suggestions made by icecreamdf and constonks. Let me know how I can improve on these, including the flashbacks between 'Frontier in Space' and 'The Deadly Assasin' and the placements of 'And You Will Obey Me'. Thanks. Tim.
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Post by constonks on Jun 21, 2016 13:43:19 GMT
I'm pretty sure there was a line when Macqueen in Beevers' body mentioned that he didn't recognize McCoy which is why I assumed it was pre-Dominion. Of course, he should remember him from Survival, Dust Breeding, and Master anyway, so maybe he was just lying so that the Doctor wouldn't realize which Master he was dealing with. I think that was Beevers in Macqueens body. It was indeed: (from the PDF script) As for when the Doctor meets the Decayed Master who is really Macqueen: That might be the line you were thinking of, but that was about Jemima. The Master also discusses last meeting the Fifth Doctor, but the Seventh Doctor doesn't remember that. Also, Tim Bradley - spoilers for The Two Masters regarding the placement of the flashbacks: The flashback scenes show the Master's disfigurement, as Beevers appears as an unburnt incarnation before being attacked by Macqueen. Right now, you have it as
- Legacy of the Daleks - A couple other Delgado stories - The Master is disfigured, becoming Pratt Beevers - The Two Masters (flashbacks)
When really, it's
- Delgado stories - EITHER Legacy of the Daleks OR a regeneration into Geoffrey Beevers' pre-decayed Master. - The Two Masters (flashbacks) during which the Master is disfigured. - Vampire of the Mind - The Two Masters (main story)
And then, for Macqueen...
- The Two Masters (flashbacks) - And You Will Obey Me - The Two Masters (main story)
...wherever you want to put that in Macqueen's life.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 21, 2016 14:11:07 GMT
I'm pretty sure there was a line when Macqueen in Beevers' body mentioned that he didn't recognize McCoy which is why I assumed it was pre-Dominion. Of course, he should remember him from Survival, Dust Breeding, and Master anyway, so maybe he was just lying so that the Doctor wouldn't realize which Master he was dealing with. I think that was Beevers in Macqueens body. I guess I got them mixed up. I'll have to listen to it again.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jun 21, 2016 22:48:18 GMT
Also, Tim Bradley - spoilers for The Two Masters regarding the placement of the flashbacks: {Spoiler}The flashback scenes show the Master's disfigurement, as Beevers appears as an unburnt incarnation before being attacked by Macqueen. Right now, you have it as
- Legacy of the Daleks - A couple other Delgado stories - The Master is disfigured, becoming Pratt Beevers - The Two Masters (flashbacks)
When really, it's
- Delgado stories - EITHER Legacy of the Daleks OR a regeneration into Geoffrey Beevers' pre-decayed Master. - The Two Masters (flashbacks) during which the Master is disfigured. - Vampire of the Mind - The Two Masters (main story)
And then, for Macqueen...
- The Two Masters (flashbacks) - And You Will Obey Me - The Two Masters (main story)
...wherever you want to put that in Macqueen's life. Thanks for this, Constonks. I've adjusted the Master's timeline according to the suggestions you've made. Let me know that what I've amended is alright. Really appreciate it. Tim.
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Post by constonks on Jun 22, 2016 3:17:38 GMT
Thanks for this, Constonks. I've adjusted the Master's timeline according to the suggestions you've made. Let me know that what I've amended is alright. Really appreciate it. Tim. Cleaned up a bit (there were some duplicates of the recent trilogy): 3. The Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master
Flashbacks of the Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master in 'The Two Masters' (Audio) take place here.
19. Vampire of the Mind (Audio)
The Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master's appearance in the main story of 'The Two Masters' (Audio) takes place here.
20. The Deadly Assassin (TV)
21. The Museum of Curiosities (J&L) (Audio)
22. Jago & Son (J&L) (Audio)
23. Maurice (J&L) (Audio)
24. The Woman in White (J&L) (Audio)
25. Masterpiece (J&L) (Audio)
26. Trail of the White Worm/The Oseidon Adventure (Audio)
27. The Light at the End (Audio)
28. The Evil One (Audio)
29. Requiem for the Rocket Men/Death Match (Audio)
30. The Keeper of Traken (TV)
11. The Alex Macqueen Master
53. U.N.I.T.: Dominion (Audio)
The Alex Macqueen Master’s cameo at the end of ‘Time’s Horizon’ (from 'Dark Eyes 2' (Audio)) occurs here.
54. Dark Eyes 2 (Audio)
4. Eyes of the Master (Audio)
55. Dark Eyes 3 (Audio)
1. The Death of Hope
2. The Reviled
3. Masterplan
4. Rule of the Eminence
The Alex Macqueen Master teams up with the Dalek Controller and creates an alternate timeline on Earth where Daleks rule.
The Alex Macqueen Master’s brief appearance at the end of ‘The Monster of Montmartre’ (from 'Dark Eyes 4' (Audio)) takes place here.
56. Dark Eyes 4 (Audio)
3. Master of the Daleks
The Alex Macqueen Master escapes the alternate timeline Earth.
Flashbacks of the Alex Macqueen Master in 'The Two Masters' (Audio) take place here.
56. And You Will Obey Me (Audio)
57. The Two Masters (Audio) takes place here.
The Alex Macqueen Master regenerates into the Derek Jacobi Master.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 22, 2016 5:11:15 GMT
Thanks for this, Constonks. I've adjusted the Master's timeline according to the suggestions you've made. Let me know that what I've amended is alright. Really appreciate it. Tim. Cleaned up a bit (there were some duplicates of the recent trilogy): 3. The Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master
Flashbacks of the Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master in 'The Two Masters' (Audio) take place here.
19. Vampire of the Mind (Audio)
The Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master's appearance in the main story of 'The Two Masters' (Audio) takes place here.
20. The Deadly Assassin (TV)
21. The Museum of Curiosities (J&L) (Audio)
22. Jago & Son (J&L) (Audio)
23. Maurice (J&L) (Audio)
24. The Woman in White (J&L) (Audio)
25. Masterpiece (J&L) (Audio)
26. Trail of the White Worm/The Oseidon Adventure (Audio)
27. The Light at the End (Audio)
28. The Evil One (Audio)
29. Requiem for the Rocket Men/Death Match (Audio)
30. The Keeper of Traken (TV)
11. The Alex Macqueen Master
53. U.N.I.T.: Dominion (Audio)
The Alex Macqueen Master’s cameo at the end of ‘Time’s Horizon’ (from 'Dark Eyes 2' (Audio)) occurs here.
54. Dark Eyes 2 (Audio)
4. Eyes of the Master (Audio)
55. Dark Eyes 3 (Audio)
1. The Death of Hope
2. The Reviled
3. Masterplan
4. Rule of the Eminence
The Alex Macqueen Master teams up with the Dalek Controller and creates an alternate timeline on Earth where Daleks rule.
The Alex Macqueen Master’s brief appearance at the end of ‘The Monster of Montmartre’ (from 'Dark Eyes 4' (Audio)) takes place here.
56. Dark Eyes 4 (Audio)
3. Master of the Daleks
The Alex Macqueen Master escapes the alternate timeline Earth.
Flashbacks of the Alex Macqueen Master in 'The Two Masters' (Audio) take place here.
56. And You Will Obey Me (Audio)
57. The Two Masters (Audio) takes place here.
The Alex Macqueen Master regenerates into the Derek Jacobi Master.
Yeah, that's more accurate. {Spoiler} Billy2's timeline still doesn't reflect the body swap between the Two Masters. Also, The Two Masters takes place shortly after both of the other stories in the trilogy.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jun 22, 2016 7:49:53 GMT
Thanks constonks; thanks icecream.
Okay, this is how I've done it with regards to the latest Master trilogy for both the Geoffrey Beevers and Alex Macqueen Masters in the timeline.
{Spoiler} 3. The Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master Flashbacks of the Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master in 'The Two Masters' (Audio) take place here. The Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master inside the Alex Macqueen Master's body in 19. 'Vampire of the Mind' (Audio) takes place here. The Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master's appearance in the main story of 'The Two Masters' (Audio) with the Alex Macqueen Master takes place here.
11. The Alex Macqueen Master Flashbacks of the Alex MacQueen Master in 'The Two Masters' (Audio) take place here. The Alex Macqueen Master inside the Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master's body in 56. 'And You Will Obey Me' (Audio) takes place here. The Alex Macqueen Master's appearance in the main story of 57. 'The Two Masters' (Audio) with the Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers Master takes place here.
Thanks again for all your help with the confusion on the Master trilogy.
Tim.
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Post by icecreamdf on Aug 12, 2016 7:37:51 GMT
You should also include the recent Eleventh Doctor comics. They feature the Time War version of the Master, but it isn't clear if it is a newly introduced incarnation, or a younger version of Jacobi.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Aug 12, 2016 9:09:00 GMT
You should also include the recent Eleventh Doctor comics. They feature the Time War version of the Master, but it isn't clear if it is a newly introduced incarnation, or a younger version of Jacobi. Do you know what the titles for these Eleventh Doctor comics are? I can then look them up and find out where they can be placed in the Master's timeline? Tim.
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