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Post by glutamodo on Jun 19, 2016 11:52:59 GMT
While it was fun, by the end I had issue with all these Drax incarnations directly interacting and breaking the laws of time. How is it even possible? It seems to me that the resulting paradoxes and "Blinovich" stuff would cause similar damage to the web of time as the affected Masters did in The Two Masters.
At times it seems like as if the "Laws Of Time" have stopped being fundamental Laws Of The Universe, and are instead just a few words in a dusty tome on a back shelf that no one hasn't read in decades and no one really remembers what they actually are, so they don't count anymore.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 19, 2016 12:06:31 GMT
I think its a story you've just got to laugh at and not think about to hard I mean the device is the "magic Bullet" for DW and its in the hands of that universes Del Boy.
Regards
mark687
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 16:21:55 GMT
Could we have Ray Brooks in more Big Finish ranges, do you think? Like David Warner, he is a terrific actor and has one of the most distinctive voices - not for any one character, for he has played so many, but for the quality of his performances. He is brilliant at quirky stuff, as is evidenced here, but those wonderful tones are just as effective at darker, more dramatic stuff. Now they have him on board, I hope BF use him again (and again)
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 19, 2016 17:29:05 GMT
While it was fun, by the end I had issue with all these Drax incarnations directly interacting and breaking the laws of time. How is it even possible? It seems to me that the resulting paradoxes and "Blinovich" stuff would cause similar damage to the web of time as the affected Masters did in The Two Masters. At times it seems like as if the "Laws Of Time" have stopped being fundamental Laws Of The Universe, and are instead just a few words in a dusty tome on a back shelf that no one hasn't read in decades and no one really remembers what they actually are, so they don't count anymore. The thingy they stole cancels the Blinovitch effect or something, and makes it possible for a Time Lord to meet himself without breaking time. {Two Masters Spoiler} Also, I think the problems in The Two Masters had more to do with the body swap than with the Master meeting himself. If the Beevers Master steals the Macqueen body, then he will never regenerate into Macqueen and there will be no body for his past self to steal. The future Drax incarnations were just doing what they remembered happenning.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jun 19, 2016 17:46:18 GMT
While it was fun, by the end I had issue with all these Drax incarnations directly interacting and breaking the laws of time. How is it even possible? It seems to me that the resulting paradoxes and "Blinovich" stuff would cause similar damage to the web of time as the affected Masters did in The Two Masters. At times it seems like as if the "Laws Of Time" have stopped being fundamental Laws Of The Universe, and are instead just a few words in a dusty tome on a back shelf that no one hasn't read in decades and no one really remembers what they actually are, so they don't count anymore. The thingy they stole cancels the Blinovitch effect or something, and makes it possible for a Time Lord to meet himself without breaking time. {Two Masters Spoiler} Also, I think the problems in The Two Masters had more to do with the body swap than with the Master meeting himself. If the Beevers Master steals the Macqueen body, then he will never regenerate into Macqueen and there will be no body for his past self to steal. The future Drax incarnations were just doing what they remembered happenning. Also I think they're different paradoxes, really. One is sort of bootstrap, the other is sort of Grandfather.
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Post by elkawho on Jun 19, 2016 23:58:51 GMT
The thingy they stole cancels the Blinovitch effect or something, and makes it possible for a Time Lord to meet himself without breaking time. {Two Masters Spoiler} Also, I think the problems in The Two Masters had more to do with the body swap than with the Master meeting himself. If the Beevers Master steals the Macqueen body, then he will never regenerate into Macqueen and there will be no body for his past self to steal. The future Drax incarnations were just doing what they remembered happenning. Also I think they're different paradoxes, really. One is sort of bootstrap, the other is sort of Grandfather. You have a knack for taking something that is kind of confusing and making it really confusing.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 20, 2016 7:54:47 GMT
Mr Dorney you've done it again & delivered a cracking audio drama with some genuine surprise twists i didn't see coming.
You take a time travel paradox with Drax & make the usual technobabble of meeting his other selves completely believable.
Brilliantly written dialogue for the cast to sink there teeth into & Tom's obviously loving your script.
This story like The Fourth Wall, you take those timey wimey complexities & make them easy to understand.
Bloody brilliant audio drama.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jun 20, 2016 8:42:46 GMT
Also I think they're different paradoxes, really. One is sort of bootstrap, the other is sort of Grandfather. You have a knack for taking something that is kind of confusing and making it really confusing. Well, one is a paradox that creates itself, and the other is one that negates itself. Sort of. I'm not sure I'm helping, am I?
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Jun 20, 2016 8:45:26 GMT
You have a knack for taking something that is kind of confusing and making it really confusing. Well, one is a paradox that creates itself, and the other is one that negates itself. Sort of. I'm not sure I'm helping, am I? You are. Yet you aren't.
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Post by omega on Jun 20, 2016 9:09:01 GMT
Also I think they're different paradoxes, really. One is sort of bootstrap, the other is sort of Grandfather. You have a knack for taking something that is kind of confusing and making it really confusing. The paradox in this is the bootstrap, where the giving and obtaining of the macguffin ends up so that it's impossible to tell where the idea originated. It's like receiving a piece of information from someone. You use the information, and at the end of your life deliver it to someone who ends up being your younger self. The classic chicken and egg, does the chicken hatch from, or lay the egg? The Two Masters: {Spoiler} The MacQueen Master intendeds to kill his earlier self (the Beevers Master), which would prevent him, the MacQueen Master, from coming into existence. By not being around, he wouldn't be in a position to kill the Beevers Master, so he would end up coming into being.
It's the old story of going back in time and killing your grandfather before your father is born. As your father doesn't exist, then you can't exist either, so your interference doesn't take place. Think Back to the Future in terms of the consequences, where Marty needs to get his parents together to make sure he is born, and he and his siblings gradually vanish until that happens. Futurama played this hilariously in Roswell That Ends Well, when Fry tried to keep his grandfather alive to ensure his own existence, and would up having sex with the woman who was his grandmother, thus becoming his own grandfather. You could say he screwed the granny by doing the nasty in the pasty.
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Post by mrperson on Jun 20, 2016 14:56:51 GMT
You have a knack for taking something that is kind of confusing and making it really confusing. Well, one is a paradox that creates itself, and the other is one that negates itself. Sort of. I'm not sure I'm helping, am I? Makes sense to me, insofar as a paradox can make any sense.
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Post by mrperson on Jun 20, 2016 15:01:49 GMT
On this point, I'd note as to The Mutant Phase This is essentially a bootstrap paradox (rather than the "sort of bootstrap" going on with the Draxes), except it's a situation where, at the very end, the Doctor realizes that he's right there in the midst of the bootstrap about to come into being and is in a position to stop it. So he stops it.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 20, 2016 15:23:59 GMT
Never mind Thursdays EU vote, lets vote for John Dorney to become a lord.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jun 20, 2016 15:31:02 GMT
And of course, technically, there might not be a paradox after all. Drax could quite easily steal it alone.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 20, 2016 15:58:25 GMT
And of course, technically, there might not be a paradox after all. Drax could quite easily steal it alone. So, are you saying that it is possible that in some original timeline, Drax just went to the temporal Atlantis place and stole the thing without any elaborate plans, and then later went back in time involving more of his incarnations and the Doctor so that he wouldn't leave any evidence?
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jun 20, 2016 17:28:32 GMT
And of course, technically, there might not be a paradox after all. Drax could quite easily steal it alone. So, are you saying that it is possible that in some original timeline, Drax just went to the temporal Atlantis place and stole the thing without any elaborate plans, and then later went back in time involving more of his incarnations and the Doctor so that he wouldn't leave any evidence? Yep.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 20, 2016 18:00:37 GMT
Coming soon from Big Finish Productions, inside the mind of John Dorney lol.
John how you knitted it altogether & made the paradoxs a reality was genius mate.
My Two Masters arrived today so I'm looking forward to see what Dorney magic you sprinkled over this adventure.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,073
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Post by dorney on Jun 20, 2016 18:21:30 GMT
Coming soon from Big Finish Productions, inside the mind of John Dorney lol. John how you knitted it altogether & made the paradoxs a reality was genius mate. My Two Masters arrived today so I'm looking forward to see what Dorney magic you sprinkled over this adventure. That's very kind. Hope you like T2M!
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Post by agentten on Jun 20, 2016 21:55:26 GMT
Had a day off today so I finally had a chance to listen to this. Loved it! It had me laughing out loud. Baker, Ward, and Leeson are all at the top of their game and the guest cast is brilliant, too. The twist is so clever and fun. I foresee Drax troubling Four and Romana regularly in future releases. This is a standout in what has already been an excellent season of the Fourth Doctor Adventures.
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Post by Star Platinum on Jun 20, 2016 22:53:20 GMT
dorney, what is the proper noun for a group of Drax's? A Drip of Drax's, a trouble of Drax's?
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