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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 10:29:41 GMT
I'd say Earthshock makes the same point.... Remind me, what are the consequences? That there are no guarantees when you travel with the Doctor. Adric died alone in the smouldering wreckage of the freighter because the Doctor simply wasn't fast enough. Events had conspired against him and it robbed him of his companion's life. Although on the other hand, I'd actually say that The Daleks' Master Plan made the point more so as Sara wasn't trapped, she deliberately went back to help the Doctor and because of her altruism lost her life in the most painful way imaginable. Reduced to dust, having lived her entire life in the span of ten agonising minutes. The events on Kembel and those subsequently in France left Steven so disgusted that he stormed out of the TARDIS into an unknown environment without any means of getting home.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jun 19, 2016 10:42:57 GMT
Remind me, what are the consequences? That there are no guarantees when you travel with the Doctor. Adric died alone in the smouldering wreckage of the freighter because the Doctor simply wasn't fast enough. Events had conspired against him and it robbed him of his companion's life. I'd actually say that The Daleks' Master Plan made the point more so as Sara wasn't trapped, she deliberately went back to help the Doctor and because of her altruism lost her life in the most painful way imaginable. Reduced to dust, having lived her entire life in the span of ten agonising minutes. The events on Kembel and those subsequently in France left Steven so disgusted that he stormed out of the TARDIS into an unknown environment without any means of getting home. Classic Who always has had consequences of travelling with the Doctor. There are none in NuWho.
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Post by acousticwolf on Jun 19, 2016 10:57:07 GMT
Classic Who always has had consequences of travelling with the Doctor. There are none in NuWho. Are you saying this is a positive? If not, then this belongs in a different thread. This thread is to discuss the positives of the new series (not to rehash the same old arguments) Cheers Tony
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jun 19, 2016 11:02:46 GMT
Classic Who always has had consequences of travelling with the Doctor. There are none in NuWho. Are you saying this is a positive? If not, then this belongs in a different thread. This thread is to discuss the positives of the new series (not to rehash the same old arguments) Cheers Tony Icecreamdf said that a NuWho companion has consequences of travelling with the Doctor, I want to know what those are.
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Post by acousticwolf on Jun 19, 2016 11:11:04 GMT
Are you saying this is a positive? If not, then this belongs in a different thread. This thread is to discuss the positives of the new series (not to rehash the same old arguments) Cheers Tony Icecreamdf said that a NuWho companion has consequences of travelling with the Doctor, I want to know what those are. That's not how it read. It read more like you were stating a fact! Cheers Tony
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jun 19, 2016 11:15:59 GMT
Classic Who would never give us an episode like Face the Raven thay deals with the consequences of a companion travelling with the Doctor. What are the consequences?
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Post by constonks on Jun 19, 2016 13:59:30 GMT
Classic Who would never give us an episode like Face the Raven thay deals with the consequences of a companion travelling with the Doctor. What are the consequences? That as a companion of the Doctor, you could die doing what you think is right (and not even succeed at what you were trying to do). But I would say that describes Earthshock as well. And, yeah (before everyone replies) the death doesn't stick. But I don't think there are many who would call the non-stick mortality a positive of Doc Who so this is probably the wrong thread for it.
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Post by Ela on Jun 19, 2016 16:14:18 GMT
Remind me, what are the consequences? That there are no guarantees when you travel with the Doctor. Adric died alone in the smouldering wreckage of the freighter because the Doctor simply wasn't fast enough. Events had conspired against him and it robbed him of his companion's life. Although on the other hand, I'd actually say that The Daleks' Master Plan made the point more so as Sara wasn't trapped, she deliberately went back to help the Doctor and because of her altruism lost her life in the most painful way imaginable. Reduced to dust, having lived her entire life in the span of ten agonising minutes. The events on Kembel and those subsequently in France left Steven so disgusted that he stormed out of the TARDIS into an unknown environment without any means of getting home. Adric also died because of decision to go back and continue to work on the code. I distinctly remember them leaving and him suddenly turning to go back, as though he had a different idea of how to solve it. So it wasn't merely because the Doctor wasn't fast enough. Clara died, in my opinion, because she had gotten so used to the Doctor getting her out of everything that she didn't realize that this time she had made a decision he couldn't reverse. And once made, she was willing to face the consequences of her decision.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 19, 2016 17:01:10 GMT
Classic Who would never give us an episode like Face the Raven thay deals with the consequences of a companion travelling with the Doctor. What are the consequences? You can become more like the Doctor and take stupid risks.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jun 19, 2016 18:25:19 GMT
That there are no guarantees when you travel with the Doctor. Adric died alone in the smouldering wreckage of the freighter because the Doctor simply wasn't fast enough. Events had conspired against him and it robbed him of his companion's life. Although on the other hand, I'd actually say that The Daleks' Master Plan made the point more so as Sara wasn't trapped, she deliberately went back to help the Doctor and because of her altruism lost her life in the most painful way imaginable. Reduced to dust, having lived her entire life in the span of ten agonising minutes. The events on Kembel and those subsequently in France left Steven so disgusted that he stormed out of the TARDIS into an unknown environment without any means of getting home. Adric also died because of decision to go back and continue to work on the code. I distinctly remember them leaving and him suddenly turning to go back, as though he had a different idea of how to solve it. So it wasn't merely because the Doctor wasn't fast enough. Clara died, in my opinion, because she had gotten so used to the Doctor getting her out of everything that she didn't realize that this time she had made a decision he couldn't reverse. And once made, she was willing to face the consequences of her decision. But Clara didn't die. So no consequence.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 19, 2016 18:27:06 GMT
Adric also died because of decision to go back and continue to work on the code. I distinctly remember them leaving and him suddenly turning to go back, as though he had a different idea of how to solve it. So it wasn't merely because the Doctor wasn't fast enough. Clara died, in my opinion, because she had gotten so used to the Doctor getting her out of everything that she didn't realize that this time she had made a decision he couldn't reverse. And once made, she was willing to face the consequences of her decision. But Clara didn't die. So no consequence. She did die. She just got better. Besides, she can still never go home again, and the Doctor doesn't remember her.
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Post by Ela on Jun 19, 2016 18:42:16 GMT
But Clara didn't die. So no consequence. She did die. She just got better. Besides, she can still never go home again, and the Doctor doesn't remember her. Yup, what icecreamdf said.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 21:04:31 GMT
That there are no guarantees when you travel with the Doctor. Adric died alone in the smouldering wreckage of the freighter because the Doctor simply wasn't fast enough. Events had conspired against him and it robbed him of his companion's life. Although on the other hand, I'd actually say that The Daleks' Master Plan made the point more so as Sara wasn't trapped, she deliberately went back to help the Doctor and because of her altruism lost her life in the most painful way imaginable. Reduced to dust, having lived her entire life in the span of ten agonising minutes. The events on Kembel and those subsequently in France left Steven so disgusted that he stormed out of the TARDIS into an unknown environment without any means of getting home. Adric also died because of decision to go back and continue to work on the code. I distinctly remember them leaving and him suddenly turning to go back, as though he had a different idea of how to solve it. So it wasn't merely because the Doctor wasn't fast enough. Clara died, in my opinion, because she had gotten so used to the Doctor getting her out of everything that she didn't realize that this time she had made a decision he couldn't reverse. And once made, she was willing to face the consequences of her decision. That's a very good point, I'd forgotten about the part where he jumped out of the escape pod and back to the computer. Both died trying to save others, Sara wanted to save the Doctor and Adric wanted to stop the freighter from smashing into the Earth. I don't think Adric would have had any knowledge about where exactly he crashed, so as far as he was aware he'd failed and it hit the peace conference. That may have been Clara's finest moment there, her readiness to accept the consequences of her actions. She may be the only New Series companion who was killed/lost and revived that will be doomed for her actions because I very much doubt that the Time Lords are going to allow another R101 incident to happen with her. Particularly considering that all TARDISes have a recall circuit and it's unlikely that either of them are aware of that fact.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jun 20, 2016 6:12:27 GMT
Classic Who would never give us an episode like Face the Raven thay deals with the consequences of a companion travelling with the Doctor. What are the consequences? Bad Wolf is a consequence. Clara Splinters are a consequence (you don't see Sarah Jane getting splinters all over the place, thankfully). Amnesia is a consequence. Amy and Rory suffer consequences. I tend to resent consequences like those that are superfluous to ordinary consequences of an adventure (capture, kidnapping, target of weapon fire, strapped to table awaiting conversion into _____, etc etc). I like to think it's safe enough to ride along in the TARDIS but not if uber-freaky or fatal stuff is going to happen to companions. Whose inner or outer 12 year old wants to picture their parents scolding (or suing!) The Doctor for what he's gotten their kid into? :-) I'm not sure it's such a good idea anymore for companion departures to have notes of great finality like Sara or Adric (or even Jamie or Zoe) after classic companions have proved their viability and their ability to generate interest so long after the fact. I don't think anything really suffered any for the relatively uneventful departures that many companions have had. Anyway, back at the topic, I was going to say that for me the New Series keeps up a great tradition of witty lines so that I can still usually count on DW to make me smile (not always easy) in the middle of a serious adventure. That's one of the things I enjoy the most about both the TV episodes and the audios, and I shouldn't have omitted that from my earlier post. I also appreciate the series being willing and able to sometimes touch on issues of sociology or technical advancement in a meaningful way. It's nice for a sci-fi series to not go around thinking that science can do no wrong, for example. I really like the support some of the New Series personnel have shown for Big Finish, that means a lot to me also.
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Post by mrperson on Jun 20, 2016 14:49:58 GMT
I'd say Earthshock makes the same point.... Remind me, what are the consequences? As a fan of the classic series, surely you must know what the consequences are in Earthshock.... Getting killed. [Edit: Ok, I didn't see at first that you just wanted to argue with people about whether "consequences" are a positive in New Who in light of everybody getting the Rory treatment; it sounded like you genuinely couldn't remember what the consequences were in Earthshock.]
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jun 21, 2016 14:14:34 GMT
New Who has given me some of the best television I have seen. It gave me Season 4,5 and 9 which I love to bits and pieces even with its problems(Stolen Earth,Vanpires of Venice and The Woman Who Lived) and it made fall in love with Doctor Who, without it I wouldn't have found the classics of Classic Doctor Who or the always wonderful Big Finish and their other various ranges. New Who has helped me fall in love Doctor Who! This! Personally I also: -generally find the acting of a much higher calibre In New Who, whilst I'm not necessarily a huge fan of the way all the New Who Doctors were written, all five of the actors (including Hurt) have given excellent performances, with 5 very distinct and interesting takes on the character. -think the companions are written much stronger than in the Classics, I haven't seen all of the classic series, but I found many of the companions to be fairly similar with little more to do than ask generic questions and scream when they being chased by monsters, I dislike the romantic aspects of New Who, but Donna and Clara are amongst some of my favourite companions, because they argue with the Doctor, come across as flawed personalities and actually have quite interesting/tragic backstories and fates. -Although the 45(ish) minutes runtime can lead to rushed storylines and a lack of a worldbuilding, I do think New Who has made a better use of it's pacing than many of the Classic serials I've seen have, although I'm inclined to think I'd always prefer stories to be longer than they are, for me personally the Classic Series seemed to stretch out many of the stories needlessly... -That it moved with the times and updated the style, stories and characters for a new era and audience, the Classic series is great in it's own way, but like New Who is was, and needed to be a product of its time.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 9, 2016 1:00:00 GMT
-Although the 45(ish) minutes runtime can lead to rushed storylines and a lack of a worldbuilding, I do think New Who has made a better use of it's pacing than many of the Classic serials I've seen have, although I'm inclined to think I'd always prefer stories to be longer than they are, for me personally the Classic Series seemed to stretch out many of the stories needlessly... God, imagine someone trying to make Blink or Midnight a six parter...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 1:22:19 GMT
-Although the 45(ish) minutes runtime can lead to rushed storylines and a lack of a worldbuilding, I do think New Who has made a better use of it's pacing than many of the Classic serials I've seen have, although I'm inclined to think I'd always prefer stories to be longer than they are, for me personally the Classic Series seemed to stretch out many of the stories needlessly... God, imagine someone trying to make Blink or Midnight a six parter... It actually reminded me quite a bit of two-parters like The Edge of Destruction or The Rescue. Transitional stories where you don't have much of a budget, so you make the most of what you have. What you have to remember about the classic series too is that they're stories from a time when you couldn't go back and rewatch Episode 1 on iView. It was gone forever if you missed it, so the stories tended to have a more lethargic pace as a consequence. That said, there are some stories that use their runtime more efficiently than others. The Evil of the Daleks would be the lesser if not for its seven parts, but The Web Planet could easily have been told quite well in three or four like The Aztecs. Each format is very much a product of its time, I've heard from some that even forty-five minute intervals are too long and should be cut down to half that length. *raises eyebrow* Really makes you think what television is going to look like in the future.
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Post by omega on Oct 9, 2016 1:28:17 GMT
-Although the 45(ish) minutes runtime can lead to rushed storylines and a lack of a worldbuilding, I do think New Who has made a better use of it's pacing than many of the Classic serials I've seen have, although I'm inclined to think I'd always prefer stories to be longer than they are, for me personally the Classic Series seemed to stretch out many of the stories needlessly... The Third Doctor era is especially noticeable for needless padding. The Mutants had to introduce a brand new threat to justify the last two episodes and Planet of the Spiders dedicated a whole episode to a chase involving a helicopter, the Whomobile and a boat. Frontier in Space is the Doctor and Jo getting put in and escaping a variety of prison cells. Many of the new series stories would be great candidates for Target style novelisations. Some of the best in the Target range expanded on the stories a lot, some of the Seventh Doctor novelisations for example. Matt Jones's Impossible Planet/Satan Pit really feels like a New Adventure in tone.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Oct 9, 2016 12:55:44 GMT
-Although the 45(ish) minutes runtime can lead to rushed storylines and a lack of a worldbuilding, I do think New Who has made a better use of it's pacing than many of the Classic serials I've seen have, although I'm inclined to think I'd always prefer stories to be longer than they are, for me personally the Classic Series seemed to stretch out many of the stories needlessly... The Third Doctor era is especially noticeable for needless padding. The Mutants had to introduce a brand new threat to justify the last two episodes and Planet of the Spiders dedicated a whole episode to a chase involving a helicopter, the Whomobile and a boat. Frontier in Space is the Doctor and Jo getting put in and escaping a variety of prison cells. Many of the new series stories would be great candidates for Target style novelisations. Some of the best in the Target range expanded on the stories a lot, some of the Seventh Doctor novelisations for example. Matt Jones's Impossible Planet/Satan Pit really feels like a New Adventure in tone. Which reminds me, I read over on Gallifreybase recently that Mark Gatiss once mentioned on twitter that he was asked to novelize one of his stories (IIRC it was either The Crimson Horror or The Nightmare In Silver) no idea how serious the talks were though... If they were to novelise New Who episodes I think Day Of The Doctor would be the most likely candidate...
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