Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 8:09:43 GMT
So I just watched May's victory speech, and I really expected her to start by showing her ID card and introducing herself. Am I the only person who's thinking Harriet Jones? I was thinking the very same thing my friend, watch the skies for the Sycorax at Christmas.
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 12, 2016 9:51:16 GMT
Post by jasonward on Jul 12, 2016 9:51:16 GMT
To echo what has been said, whether we like it or not we are a right wing country and I doubt anything would really change in another election. I agree but a General Election would make me feel assured in the knowledge that the PM has been elected. Er, that's not how our electoral system works, if you mean the PM is elected by the large populous, if you mean the PM needs to be elected at all, she has been, several times.
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 12, 2016 9:54:23 GMT
Post by jasonward on Jul 12, 2016 9:54:23 GMT
Major did win an election while leading the Conservative & Unionist Party, however...NO PM is elected by the people, they're just elected as an MP, the PM bit is done by MPs only. In theory party leaders (and therefore PM's) are elected (in the case of The Labour and The Conservative parties) are elected by the membership of the parties they belong to, however as we have just seen, that's not always the case.
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 12, 2016 10:30:07 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 12, 2016 10:30:07 GMT
I agree but a General Election would make me feel assured in the knowledge that the PM has been elected. Er, that's not how our electoral system works, if you mean the PM is elected by the large populous, if you mean the PM needs to be elected at all, she has been, several times. When I vote for a party, I vote based on which party leader I like.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 16:22:13 GMT
Er, that's not how our electoral system works, if you mean the PM is elected by the large populous, if you mean the PM needs to be elected at all, she has been, several times. When I vote for a party, I vote based on which party leader I like. But that isn't how the system works. We vote for a party; they choose the Prime Minister. David Cameron was very clear before the last election that if Conservatives won a majority he would not stay in power for the full term, so there really cannot be any argument. Interestingly, when Gordon Brown was selected by the Labour Party to replace Tony Blair, Teresa May led the demands for a General Election, arguing that Brown had no electoral mandate. Can't imagine her practising what she preaches now the shoe is on the other foot.
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 12, 2016 18:03:07 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 12, 2016 18:03:07 GMT
When I vote for a party, I vote based on which party leader I like. But that isn't how the system works. We vote for a party; they choose the Prime Minister. David Cameron was very clear before the last election that if Conservatives won a majority he would not stay in power for the full term, so there really cannot be any argument. Interestingly, when Gordon Brown was selected by the Labour Party to replace Tony Blair, Teresa May led the demands for a General Election, arguing that Brown had no electoral mandate. Can't imagine her practising what she preaches now the shoe is on the other foot. I know it isn't but it is the way many choose to vote.
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 12, 2016 19:09:07 GMT
Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 12, 2016 19:09:07 GMT
Major did win an election while leading the Conservative & Unionist Party, however...NO PM is elected by the people, they're just elected as an MP, the PM bit is done by MPs only. In theory party leaders (and therefore PM's) are elected (in the case of The Labour and The Conservative parties) are elected by the membership of the parties they belong to, however as we have just seen, that's not always the case. There is no obligation/law/rule that states the leader of a party when in government is automatically PM. I can't think of a situation where it happened here but I know it happened in Ireland, which also has a parliamentary democracy.
|
|
|
Post by acousticwolf on Jul 12, 2016 20:06:27 GMT
So, after a secret Labour NEC ballot, Jeremy Corbyn hangs on again. His name WILL appear on the leadership election ballot. Personally I think it's fair he gets a chance to run again as a huge amount of Labour members voted him in, but it's also truly bizarre that there is a possibility that he will win again and all of the MPs who refused to work with him... will have to work with him... Truly, truly an odd month for politics.
Cheers
Tony
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 13, 2016 17:49:26 GMT
Post by johnnybear on Jul 13, 2016 17:49:26 GMT
Apart from the ludicrous voting system we have in this country I think that when a 'leader' is deposed or resigns it should be an instant electional issue! No quibbles the face of the party is the one that we are supposed to select but they seem to think they can appoint one in the interim! I had to highlight the word leader up above as it's really a jokey title isn't it! What person that has been elected in the last twenty years has really deserved that title? JB
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 18:14:51 GMT
I don't see that there's any serious constitutional case to be made for a snap election. We don't vote for a Prime Minister. We vote for a local MP. We don't give a mandate to an indivdual but to the party who commands a majority. David Cameron's name wasn't on a single ballot paper outside of his own constituency and he made it clear BEFORE the 2015 election he wouldn't finish his term. I'm as far removed from being on the Tory side of the debate as is ossible but they've acted above board and Cameron has done exactly as he said he would. Not his problem if people weren't listening.
The fixed term parliament act makes it harder to call elections at will but with a concencus it would be do-able easily enough if both the majority of Tories and Labour want to call for a vote of no-confidence. They don't. So it's a moot point right now. I'm actually surprised so many Tories don't want it - they'd absolutely wipe the floor with Labour right now. Can you imagine Jeremy Corbyn trying to convince the country of one thing while hundreds of his own MPs cavass door-to-door briefing against him?
Brown should have called a snap election in 2007 and killed off Cameron then. It's easy to forget how popular Brown was pre-financial crash. He was massively ahead in the polls and would have commanded an easy majority. He must regret not doing that every day. When the markets crashed his days were numbered. That the Tories couldn't win a majority in 2010 shows even post-crash there was still a large part of the country ready to trust Gordon Brown.
Only time will tell if May should be trying to get to the ballot box ASAP or not. Does anyone seriously think if, somehow, Angela Eagle or Owen Smith's coup works that they can beat Theresa May in a few years? I certainly don't. Dan Jarvis is still the man I think would get the best result for Labour but I think he, and some other bigger names are staying out of the leadership battle right now as they know they won't beat Corbyn with the membership. If Corbyn's name was kept off the leadership ballot I guarantee more big-hitters would be preparing a leadership bid but they're now being forced to play a much longer game.
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 13, 2016 19:51:23 GMT
Post by acousticwolf on Jul 13, 2016 19:51:23 GMT
So, the last one on my list has gone - Osborne has resigned from the Government as Philip Hammond is chosen as the new Chancellor. There's only Corbyn hanging on by the skin of his teeth now (although Boris is back - as predicted by TinDogPodcast - as Foreign Secretary. At least it isn't Farage lol). Who knows, what happens next ... Cheers Tony EDIT: LOL!
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 13, 2016 22:03:09 GMT
Post by muckypup on Jul 13, 2016 22:03:09 GMT
I don't see that there's any serious constitutional case to be made for a snap election. We don't vote for a Prime Minister. We vote for a local MP. We don't give a mandate to an indivdual but to the party who commands a majority. David Cameron's name wasn't on a single ballot paper outside of his own constituency and he made it clear BEFORE the 2015 election he wouldn't finish his term. I'm as far removed from being on the Tory side of the debate as is ossible but they've acted above board and Cameron has done exactly as he said he would. Not his problem if people weren't listening. The fixed term parliament act makes it harder to call elections at will but with a concencus it would be do-able easily enough if both the majority of Tories and Labour want to call for a vote of no-confidence. They don't. So it's a moot point right now. I'm actually surprised so many Tories don't want it - they'd absolutely wipe the floor with Labour right now. Can you imagine Jeremy Corbyn trying to convince the country of one thing while hundreds of his own MPs cavass door-to-door briefing against him? Brown should have called a snap election in 2007 and killed off Cameron then. It's easy to forget how popular Brown was pre-financial crash. He was massively ahead in the polls and would have commanded an easy majority. He must regret not doing that every day. When the markets crashed his days were numbered. That the Tories couldn't win a majority in 2010 shows even post-crash there was still a large part of the country ready to trust Gordon Brown. Only time will tell if May should be trying to get to the ballot box ASAP or not. Does anyone seriously think if, somehow, Angela Eagle or Owen Smith's coup works that they can beat Theresa May in a few years? I certainly don't. Dan Jarvis is still the man I think would get the best result for Labour but I think he, and some other bigger names are staying out of the leadership battle right now as they know they won't beat Corbyn with the membership. If Corbyn's name was kept off the leadership ballot I guarantee more big-hitters would be preparing a leadership bid but they're now being forced to play a much longer game. As usual very measured and well written but only partly true. we vote for our local candidates based pledges but also on the party manifesto, which is partly dictated buy the current leadership. the pledges & party's have changed since the election. But I don't think there is currently any call for a snap election, I doubt we would get any better situation. The current system is in turmoil. fu?k the referendum, and worry about the devolution situation and the repucussions that causes before we think about triggering clauses. The best possible situation would be to sack the whole bloody lot of them, & start again! 😀
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 13, 2016 23:36:04 GMT
Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 13, 2016 23:36:04 GMT
Well, Labour imploding and Thatcher's Last Horcrux as PM (and god help me still better than the other candidates) are nothing as fallout, and neither is Indyref2 for that matter. There's the not so much rise as blatantcy of racism currently about, and me? I'm watching Northern Ireland and chewing my nails thinking "they just needed at least one generation to grow up worrying about plumbing rather than Loyalist/Republican terrorism.", fingers crossed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Brexit
Jul 14, 2016 6:15:19 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 6:15:19 GMT
As usual very measured and well written but only partly true. Well, despite that incredibly back handed compliment... You're assuming that what people choose to base their votes on has any constitutional value. You literally vote for your local MP when it comes to General Elections. If you choose to vote on a manifesto or who the leader is, that's your perogative - and it's how a lot of people vote of course - but there is no constitutional or legal consequence for your vote to count for ANYTHING more than electing a local MP. Not "partly" true but incontrovertible. This is why the public can't recall or call for no-confidence in the Prime Minister, only their local representatives. It's civics 101 stuff, this.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Brexit
Jul 14, 2016 6:26:37 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 6:26:37 GMT
There's the not so much rise as blatantcy of racism currently about Yes, certain people seem to think their racism was given licence by the referendum. This is not helped by the refusal of the Home Secretary - now the Prime bloody Minister no less - to address what is happening to immigrants currently living in the UK. "Keep calm and carry on" seems to be the message but who among the potential exiles would now do something like buy a house when they could be deported in the not-too-distant future? Who would want to start a family with the threat of being removed from your home and stuck on a boat to France hangs over them? Who would relocate to another part of the UK for a job knowing it could be withdrawn if the government decide you've suddenly become an illegal worker? David Davies has been appointed as Minister for Brexit and he's a very astute, clear, measured man. I'm hopeful, and praying, that he brings clarity for these people worrying about their status in the UK as soon as possible. The alternatives are too bleak to consider..
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 14, 2016 6:29:28 GMT
Post by pawntake on Jul 14, 2016 6:29:28 GMT
Do not worry Larry the Cat will sort it!!! The world cannot stop laughing!!! Boris Johnson is the new foreign secretary!! Minister of funny haircuts would have been better.Should I laugh? or should I cry?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Brexit
Jul 14, 2016 7:06:20 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 7:06:20 GMT
Do not worry Larry the Cat will sort it!!! The world cannot stop laughing!!! Boris Johnson is the new foreign secretary!! Minister of funny haircuts would have been better.Should I laugh? or should I cry? Very easy to forget, because the media have pushed him for so long, he's a complete novice when it comes to cabinet. He has never been a Minister before and has spent his political life either in opposition with a very minor shadow portfolio or working pretty autonomously from the Government as Mayor Of London. In essence, he's never had a "boss" in the Tory party and it'll be fascinating to see how he tows the party line now. This is not where he thought he would be a month ago when he was odds-on favourite to be in 10 Downing Street but it's also not where he thought he would be just 2 weeks ago when Gove pulled the rug from under him. It's been a whirlwind month for Boris, no doubt. Apart from him, May's cabinet looks solid from a Tory standpoint. David Davis handling Brexit is the best appointment she could have made and Hammond is a safe pick for Home Secretary. The big losers are George Osborne and Michael Gove. Osborne, reports the BBC, was open to another post but May sacked him giving him no fallback at all. He's still young and may well do a William Hague and come back in a few years but he may end up standing down in 2020 for a more lucrative city career. Gove on the other hand is persona non grata among many on his own party. Remainers disliked him anyway and Leavers feel he betrayed their chance to get Boris in the big seat. He's finished. A quiet few years for him followed by an appointment to the Lords, most likely. If he ever ended up in the real frontline of Tory politics again it would requre the biggest comeback since Lazarus.
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 14, 2016 7:44:54 GMT
Post by acousticwolf on Jul 14, 2016 7:44:54 GMT
If he ever ended up in the real frontline of Tory politics again it would requre the biggest comeback since Lazarus. Or Peter Mandelson Cheers Tony
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 14, 2016 8:44:05 GMT
Post by muckypup on Jul 14, 2016 8:44:05 GMT
As usual very measured and well written but only partly true. Well, despite that incredibly back handed compliment... You're assuming that what people choose to base their votes on has any constitutional value. You literally vote for your local MP when it comes to General Elections. If you choose to vote on a manifesto or who the leader is, that's your perogative - and it's how a lot of people vote of course - but there is no constitutional or legal consequence for your vote to count for ANYTHING more than electing a local MP. Not "partly" true but incontrovertible. This is why the public can't recall or call for no-confidence in the Prime Minister, only their local representatives. It's civics 101 stuff, this. It wasn't meant to be back handed, I genuinely think you have a brilliant grasp of the subject. and can write it so much better than I could. please stop looking for the negative in everything I write, I am nowhere devious or clever enough to put anything deeper. and yes everything you say is correct, but many do vote red or blue regardless of their local candidate & believe that a change of PM should be voted on. which only goes to show, that as voters we are sold a pack of lies and empty promises, know wonder we are in such a mess.
|
|
|
Brexit
Jul 14, 2016 9:34:36 GMT
Post by acousticwolf on Jul 14, 2016 9:34:36 GMT
According to the news Michael Gove has been sacked from the Government as has Nicki Morgan (thank f*ck for that!). Power being wielded ruthlessly today ...
Cheers
Tony
|
|