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Brexit
Dec 1, 2016 15:53:28 GMT
Post by eldersensorite on Dec 1, 2016 15:53:28 GMT
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Brexit
Dec 1, 2016 16:01:38 GMT
Post by jasonward on Dec 1, 2016 16:01:38 GMT
Well that David Davies is saying it is important... and er... odd too since all the talk recently from May et al has been along the lines of hard exit, but I struggle to see the news in the thrust of the story that we would still have to pay if we want access to the Common Market, that's been said many times already, and the £350m per week number was admitted by the Brexiteers to be a lie in the immediate aftermath of the vote.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 9:50:59 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 9:50:59 GMT
The Supreme Court hearing on whether the Government can trigger Article 50 begins this morning and should take 4 days with a decision not expected until early in the New Year.
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 10:19:49 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 5, 2016 10:19:49 GMT
If Article 50 is triggered, then I hope a major riot takes place in London.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 11:52:35 GMT
If Article 50 is triggered, then I hope a major riot takes place in London. Not a smart thing to post mate.
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 12:49:49 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 5, 2016 12:49:49 GMT
If Article 50 is triggered, then I hope a major riot takes place in London. Not a smart thing to post mate. I don't care, I genuinely hope it happens to show the government how wrong they were to hold an EU referendum. It's the only way they'll learn.
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 12:59:53 GMT
Post by jasonward on Dec 5, 2016 12:59:53 GMT
Not a smart thing to post mate. I don't care, I genuinely hope it happens to show the government how wrong they were to hold an EU referendum. It's the only way they'll learn. The government that held the Referendum can learn nothing more, it's gone, we have a new government since then.
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 13:04:24 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 5, 2016 13:04:24 GMT
I don't care, I genuinely hope it happens to show the government how wrong they were to hold an EU referendum. It's the only way they'll learn. The government that held the Referendum can learn nothing more, it's gone, we have a new government since then. Not entirely new.
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 13:10:20 GMT
Post by jasonward on Dec 5, 2016 13:10:20 GMT
The government that held the Referendum can learn nothing more, it's gone, we have a new government since then. Not entirely new. Yes entirely new. Even if some of the members of the government are the same. In our system (the UK system) governments are formed and led by members of parliament and who are then appointed by the queen as such, when Theresa May become Prime Minister she formed a new government around her. I suspect the organisation you really want to take a pop at is the Conservative and Unionist Party.
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 13:16:41 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 5, 2016 13:16:41 GMT
some of the members of the government are the same. Exactly. Not entirely new. There are still people from the old government and Theresa May's party is the one who decided upon the referendum.
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 13:16:43 GMT
Post by muckypup on Dec 5, 2016 13:16:43 GMT
Not a smart thing to post mate. I don't care, I genuinely hope it happens to show the government how wrong they were to hold an EU referendum. It's the only way they'll learn. it's your right to think the government were wrong to hold it, but saying you think people should cause violence and wanton destruction makes you worse! peace full protests are fine anything more is just wrong, no excuses mate.
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 15:51:11 GMT
Post by eldersensorite on Dec 5, 2016 15:51:11 GMT
Riots would not help anybody. This referendum was incompetently run, but it happened and now the result should be implemented, the question is now about how to do that while limiting the damage as much as possible - that's not to say people don't have the right to peacefully protest, but the government will not 'learn' anything from riots, and you will gain nothing.
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Deleted
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 15:54:17 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 15:54:17 GMT
If Article 50 is triggered, then I hope a major riot takes place in London. You have a problem with democracy and the democratic process? People protesting about something that they don't believe in is fine. A riot signifies violence, so that's not a suitable way of objecting to anything as violence harms people and property. Probably the people to be least affected by a riot would actually be the Government!
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 20:09:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by acousticwolf on Dec 5, 2016 20:09:29 GMT
If Article 50 is triggered, then I hope a major riot takes place in London. You have a problem with democracy and the democratic process? People protesting about something that they don't believe in is fine. A riot signifies violence, so that's not a suitable way of objecting to anything as violence harms people and property. Probably the people to be least affected by a riot would actually be the Government! Just to add that rioting will only give the Government more of an excuse to crack down on Civil Liberties and ban all protests, step up phone/email monitoring and increase Stop and Search measures. Also, it wasn't the Government that was responsible for having the Referendum. That decision can be laid solely at Cameron's door, it just so happens he was leading the Conservatives (and the Government) at the time. Cheers Tony
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Brexit
Dec 5, 2016 20:39:29 GMT
Post by aztec on Dec 5, 2016 20:39:29 GMT
I was a Remain voter (albeit more because I feared the consequences of Brexit, and the free reign it could give a resurgent Conservative Goverment rather than any massive love for the European Union, and that's coming from a Lib Dem supporter) but I'm getting to the point when I wish the goverment would just hurry up and trigger the damned exit, the longer they delay or faff around (when it seems pretty clear the Goverment will never be entirely prepared or in agreement about how things should proceed anyway) the more divided and uncertain things could get, one of the most worrying things about the fallout from Brexit is the Goverment might shy away from giving the public a direct say in future decisions as important as this...
I certainly don't think the referendum was a definite vote for a hard brexit, people voted to take back control of our borders and legislation not tank our economy...
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Post by jasonward on Dec 5, 2016 21:11:45 GMT
I was a Remain voter (albeit more because I feared the consequences of Brexit, and the free reign it could give a resurgent Conservative Goverment rather than any massive love for the European Union, and that's coming from a Lib Dem supporter) but I'm getting to the point when I wish the goverment would just hurry up and trigger the damned exit, the longer they delay or faff around (when it seems pretty clear the Goverment will never be entirely prepared or in agreement about how things should proceed anyway) the more divided and uncertain things could get, one of the most worrying things about the fallout from Brexit is the Goverment might shy away from giving the public a direct say in future decisions as important as this... I certainly don't think the referendum was a definite vote for a hard brexit, people voted to take back control of our borders and legislation not tank our economy... I think people, and certainly many of the more rabid newspapers fail to grasp the complexity of Brexit, the delay we are seeing is not out of desire to slow or stop Brexit, it's because we are not in anyway shape or form prepared for Brexit, the time the government has taken so far, and plans to take (March is the timetable trigger time) is because Westminster and the civil service are having to go through major contortions just to be able to manage Brexit, and that's without even considering actual options. And you are right, we will not be given as an electorate any options on Brexit, why? Because the trigger to leave the EU gives a hard 2 year deadline, and negotiations must be handled in that time, there is no way the government (or anyone else) can negotiate multiple options and then have another referendum on which to select in the time, and if you held a referendum on which type of option we wanted before March, there is just no guarantee that what the electorate wants can be obtained. A lot of what we get with Brexit will be because in the absence of real thought and agreement it just going to be what we get. Frankly the government is screwed whatever it does, it has 2 years and bit to access and redraft and then pass over 40 years of EU legislation and directives, and its not just as simple as passing a bill that gives them more time, they can't just pass a bill saying all EU law is now UK law and we will sort it out later, much of EU law utilises and references things like EU regulators, the EU parliament, The Council of Ministers etc. Brexit ain't going to be pretty, but right at the moment each days delay is day in which things can be handled and thought about, joining the EU usually takes from formal application to accession 12 years plus, and normally there has been several years of preparation work before the application is made. My mind boggles that people think leaving can be done cleanly, sensibly and without causing chaos in some major aspects of life and business in 2 years. Democracy is a great thing, but frankly once Article 50 is triggered democratic feedback into the process ends, events will move both faster than democracy can deal with, and will end with the UK leaving the EU exactly 2 years after the trigger regardless of what anyone thinks or wants.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 17:18:11 GMT
Not a smart thing to post mate. I don't care, I genuinely hope it happens to show the government how wrong they were to hold an EU referendum. It's the only way they'll learn. The government which decided to hold a referendum are not the people who'd get their businesses destroyed or their heads kicked in in a riot. Feel free to hold your own private riot in your bedroom but bear in mind that otherwise you're skirting the edges of criminal behaviour by inciting violence
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Brexit
Dec 6, 2016 17:50:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by TinDogPodcast on Dec 6, 2016 17:50:42 GMT
Governments don't learn. They react.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 18:54:22 GMT
Not a smart thing to post mate. I don't care, I genuinely hope it happens to show the government how wrong they were to hold an EU referendum. It's the only way they'll learn. Cameron stood, in 2015, with a referendum on EU membership as part of his manifesto if re-elected. He was voted in democratically to enact that manifesto. Saying what you've said above is going beyond being aggrieved at the result of the referendum and shows complete disregard for democracy. The Tories didn't sneak the referendum in the back door. They did exactly what they said they were going to - and the public gave them a mandate to do it.
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Brexit
Dec 6, 2016 19:31:48 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 6, 2016 19:31:48 GMT
I don't care, I genuinely hope it happens to show the government how wrong they were to hold an EU referendum. It's the only way they'll learn. Cameron stood, in 2015, with a referendum on EU membership as part of his manifesto if re-elected. He was voted in democratically to enact that manifesto. Saying what you've said above is going beyond being aggrieved at the result of the referendum and shows complete disregard for democracy. The Tories didn't sneak the referendum in the back door. They did exactly what they said they were going to - and the public gave them a mandate to do it. We always choose the wrong party to lead now though. Should be a Labour government IMO.
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