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Brexit
Dec 6, 2016 19:46:05 GMT
Post by jasonward on Dec 6, 2016 19:46:05 GMT
Cameron stood, in 2015, with a referendum on EU membership as part of his manifesto if re-elected. He was voted in democratically to enact that manifesto. Saying what you've said above is going beyond being aggrieved at the result of the referendum and shows complete disregard for democracy. The Tories didn't sneak the referendum in the back door. They did exactly what they said they were going to - and the public gave them a mandate to do it. We always choose the wrong party to lead now though. Should be a Labour government IMO. But the country, like the TV schedules is not run around your needs, wants and opinions, much as I really don't like the Tory government, and much as I don't like Brexit, believing both to be misguided at best, I don't advocate some form of undemocratic force through violence to try and show how they are erroneous. The government is walking a precarious tight rope in Brexit, doing it blind folded, one arm tied behind their back and no safety net, there's a man below saying "you'd better run, cause in two years I cut the rope whether you reached the other end or not", then theirs the audience, 49% are just booing the whole act, the remaining 51% are split into two camps one shouting "step softly" and the other shouting "Stomp hard" and all three groups of the audience are looking at the rubbish at their feet wondering what they can throw, then to add to the mix there are 3 ring masters, an Englishman, an Irishman and Scotsman all shouting different orders. The burning problem though, the issue that will hurt everyone is that if they don't get to the other side successfully, the tent will fall, and it will fall on everyone and everyone will hurt, and bleed and suffer. What we don't need is people outside the tent rioting, it will help no one.
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Brexit
Dec 6, 2016 19:58:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 19:58:22 GMT
If Article 50 is triggered, then I hope a major riot takes place in London. A bit anti-democracy if you ask me. Then again a lot of people are these days. On both sides, as in.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 19:59:27 GMT
some of the members of the government are the same. Exactly. Not entirely new. There are still people from the old government and Theresa May's party is the one who decided upon the referendum. However, to be rational, a lot has changed in the new government, especially the major players. The only muck-up is keeping in Jeremy Hunt.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 20:02:33 GMT
You have a problem with democracy and the democratic process? People protesting about something that they don't believe in is fine. A riot signifies violence, so that's not a suitable way of objecting to anything as violence harms people and property. Probably the people to be least affected by a riot would actually be the Government! Just to add that rioting will only give the Government more of an excuse to crack down on Civil Liberties and ban all protests, step up phone/email monitoring and increase Stop and Search measures. Also, it wasn't the Government that was responsible for having the Referendum. That decision can be laid solely at Cameron's door, it just so happens he was leading the Conservatives (and the Government) at the time. Cheers Tony You're one-hundred per cent right. It'll give an excuse to put them down. It doesn't really help that the parties on the libertarian side don't have much on the side of democracy, to be fair. I mean, like it or not, if we were to have a second referendum, the results would probably be very similar. And we are in a democratic government. Brexit's very likely to happen and, if it doesn't, there will probably be riots and more reason for people to go against the left-wing politicians in 2020.
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Brexit
Dec 6, 2016 20:04:54 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 20:04:54 GMT
Cameron stood, in 2015, with a referendum on EU membership as part of his manifesto if re-elected. He was voted in democratically to enact that manifesto. Saying what you've said above is going beyond being aggrieved at the result of the referendum and shows complete disregard for democracy. The Tories didn't sneak the referendum in the back door. They did exactly what they said they were going to - and the public gave them a mandate to do it. We always choose the wrong party to lead now though. Should be a Labour government IMO. But then we'd potentially be in more danger. Considering the fact, the left is always going on about how Trump will cause a war and he's part of the UN, do you think it's a good idea to get rid of the army? Also, that's an opinion not a fact. We had labor government's for 13 years and it was considered that they failed, that's why we've got tories in now.
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Brexit
Dec 6, 2016 20:48:23 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 6, 2016 20:48:23 GMT
We always choose the wrong party to lead now though. Should be a Labour government IMO. But then we'd potentially be in more danger. Considering the fact, the left is always going on about how Trump will cause a war and he's part of the UN, do you think it's a good idea to get rid of the army? Yes. I think we should send the nation's best speakers to talk these big leaders and terrorists out of war instead.
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Brexit
Dec 6, 2016 21:40:25 GMT
Post by jasonward on Dec 6, 2016 21:40:25 GMT
But then we'd potentially be in more danger. Considering the fact, the left is always going on about how Trump will cause a war and he's part of the UN, do you think it's a good idea to get rid of the army? Yes. I think we should send the nation's best speakers to talk these big leaders and terrorists out of war instead. Wow, I'm hardly a war monger myself, and would look to ensure all diplomatic efforts are used before people start shooting, but history has shown time and time again that aggressors will act aggressively and that at some point words count for nothing, read about Nevil Chamberlin and Hitler to see how talking can sometimes be the worst thing you can do, and talking from a place where everyone knows you can do nothing but talk is... well... not going to lead anywhere you would like it to.
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Brexit
Dec 6, 2016 21:42:15 GMT
Post by jasonward on Dec 6, 2016 21:42:15 GMT
Anyway, hold on one minute! A few post back you advocated violence to "teach the government a lesson" but now you adopting a pacifist stance when it comes to foreign governments?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 21:54:31 GMT
Anyway, hold on one minute! A few post back you advocated violence to "teach the government a lesson" but now you adopting a pacifist stance when it comes to foreign governments? Maybe he's a secret agent for Putin
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Brexit
Dec 6, 2016 23:17:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 23:17:45 GMT
But then we'd potentially be in more danger. Considering the fact, the left is always going on about how Trump will cause a war and he's part of the UN, do you think it's a good idea to get rid of the army? Yes. I think we should send the nation's best speakers to talk these big leaders and terrorists out of war instead. Are you not sure that it might be a little nieve to do that. I mean... talking terrorists out of war... I don't think you can reason with people who are willing to give up their lives for the deaths of others.
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Brexit
Dec 7, 2016 9:12:58 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 7, 2016 9:12:58 GMT
Yes. I think we should send the nation's best speakers to talk these big leaders and terrorists out of war instead. Are you not sure that it might be a little nieve to do that. I mean... talking terrorists out of war... I don't think you can reason with people who are willing to give up their lives for the deaths of others. If I ended up in the same room as a terrorist in real life, I would definitely try to reason with them. I'm being honest here. I would tell them to think about all the kids and families they'll take away by acts of terror, ask them if it's really worth it.
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Brexit
Dec 7, 2016 9:13:57 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 7, 2016 9:13:57 GMT
Anyway, hold on one minute! A few post back you advocated violence to "teach the government a lesson" but now you adopting a pacifist stance when it comes to foreign governments? I don't have any beef with foreign governments, only our own.
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Brexit
Dec 7, 2016 9:33:03 GMT
Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 7, 2016 9:33:03 GMT
Just to add that rioting will only give the Government more of an excuse to crack down on Civil Liberties and ban all protests, step up phone/email monitoring and increase Stop and Search measures. Also, it wasn't the Government that was responsible for having the Referendum. That decision can be laid solely at Cameron's door, it just so happens he was leading the Conservatives (and the Government) at the time. Cheers Tony You're one-hundred per cent right. It'll give an excuse to put them down. It doesn't really help that the parties on the libertarian side don't have much on the side of democracy, to be fair. I mean, like it or not, if we were to have a second referendum, the results would probably be very similar. And we are in a democratic government. Brexit's very likely to happen and, if it doesn't, there will probably be riots and more reason for people to go against the left-wing politicians in 2020. I don't know much about Brexit, it's hard enough trying to keep up with our politics, but I do know a thing or 2 about riots, and one of the biggest is, it hurts the people in the local community, the business's that cant afford to be in business already, but are there for the community, to try to improve the area, and because it's where they come from. It hurts the folks who live in the community, and it does absolutely nothing to the government in which folks are ticked off with to start the whole dang thang. They make a few speeches, cry a crocodile tear or 2, then figure out another way to rip the working folks off. That's what politicians, every dang one of em, liberal and conservative do. (ive been preaching vote anti-incumbent for over a decade now, cause we need lifetime politician like we need cock roaches.) Anyway, riots are never an answer, just another problem, for folks who already have enough of em.
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Brexit
Dec 7, 2016 9:36:40 GMT
Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 7, 2016 9:36:40 GMT
But then we'd potentially be in more danger. Considering the fact, the left is always going on about how Trump will cause a war and he's part of the UN, do you think it's a good idea to get rid of the army? Yes. I think we should send the nation's best speakers to talk these big leaders and terrorists out of war instead. I mean this with all the love I have in my heart, keep on dreaming, because the world needs dreamers. And I would love to see yours listed here come true. But, it never will in my life time,
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Brexit
Dec 7, 2016 9:55:32 GMT
Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 7, 2016 9:55:32 GMT
Are you not sure that it might be a little nieve to do that. I mean... talking terrorists out of war... I don't think you can reason with people who are willing to give up their lives for the deaths of others. If I ended up in the same room as a terrorist in real life, I would definitely try to reason with them. I'm being honest here. I would tell them to think about all the kids and families they'll take away by acts of terror, ask them if it's really worth it. I'm going to tell you what they would tell you, but much nicer than they would, so please don't be offended at me, this is what I think they would say. If I kill the child of an enemy I will be a hero in the eyes of allah, for I will have taken the life of a future enemy of my god. All blasphemers will die, allah will be praised, and all who do not worship allah are the enemy of allah and they all deserve death. Women who show their face in public should be beaten and then stoned for allah, women who speak to any but their husband should have their throats cut for allah, I am willing to die if I can take just 1 non believer with me, so the more I can take the more blessed I will be. Praise allah. This is a bad impersonation of a far gone radical Muslim. They will kill you, and wont care one bit if they kill your kids, your family, your neighbors and everyone you know. These nutjobs make the daleks look like Mary freakin Poppins. And if you went over there, they would film you while they cut your throat, after they made you confess that you were an infidel who came to see them as a spy, and make you praise allah. They would then post the film on the internet, and then cut off your head, put it on a spike and put it in a prominent place to encourage others to come and see them. You cant reason with these people, you cant reason with that much hate. You can only wipe it out, and until we as a united people wipe it out, they will keep killing us, as many as a time as they can. And it's only a matter of time before it finally gets around to everyone in the free world. The only people safe from terrorists are the dead, and the unborn. Everyone else can and will be gotten to, eventually.
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Brexit
Dec 7, 2016 11:10:42 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 7, 2016 11:10:42 GMT
If I ended up in the same room as a terrorist in real life, I would definitely try to reason with them. I'm being honest here. I would tell them to think about all the kids and families they'll take away by acts of terror, ask them if it's really worth it. I'm going to tell you what they would tell you, but much nicer than they would, so please don't be offended at me, this is what I think they would say. If I kill the child of an enemy I will be a hero in the eyes of allah, for I will have taken the life of a future enemy of my god. All blasphemers will die, allah will be praised, and all who do not worship allah are the enemy of allah and they all deserve death. Women who show their face in public should be beaten and then stoned for allah, women who speak to any but their husband should have their throats cut for allah, I am willing to die if I can take just 1 non believer with me, so the more I can take the more blessed I will be. Praise allah. This is a bad impersonation of a far gone radical Muslim. They will kill you, and wont care one bit if they kill your kids, your family, your neighbors and everyone you know. These nutjobs make the daleks look like Mary freakin Poppins. And if you went over there, they would film you while they cut your throat, after they made you confess that you were an infidel who came to see them as a spy, and make you praise allah. They would then post the film on the internet, and then cut off your head, put it on a spike and put it in a prominent place to encourage others to come and see them. You cant reason with these people, you cant reason with that much hate. You can only wipe it out, and until we as a united people wipe it out, they will keep killing us, as many as a time as they can. And it's only a matter of time before it finally gets around to everyone in the free world. The only people safe from terrorists are the dead, and the unborn. Everyone else can and will be gotten to, eventually. Just recite the Zygon Invasion/Inversion speech to them. Or even better, get Peter Capaldi to do it in-character as the Doctor.
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Brexit
Dec 7, 2016 16:54:55 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 16:54:55 GMT
Are you not sure that it might be a little nieve to do that. I mean... talking terrorists out of war... I don't think you can reason with people who are willing to give up their lives for the deaths of others. If I ended up in the same room as a terrorist in real life, I would definitely try to reason with them. I'm being honest here. I would tell them to think about all the kids and families they'll take away by acts of terror, ask them if it's really worth it. But do you think they're reasonable and rational like that? It's a very nice thought to think that it'd stop them, but I'm afraid it wouldn't.
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Brexit
Dec 7, 2016 17:03:16 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 17:03:16 GMT
I'm going to tell you what they would tell you, but much nicer than they would, so please don't be offended at me, this is what I think they would say. If I kill the child of an enemy I will be a hero in the eyes of allah, for I will have taken the life of a future enemy of my god. All blasphemers will die, allah will be praised, and all who do not worship allah are the enemy of allah and they all deserve death. Women who show their face in public should be beaten and then stoned for allah, women who speak to any but their husband should have their throats cut for allah, I am willing to die if I can take just 1 non believer with me, so the more I can take the more blessed I will be. Praise allah. This is a bad impersonation of a far gone radical Muslim. They will kill you, and wont care one bit if they kill your kids, your family, your neighbors and everyone you know. These nutjobs make the daleks look like Mary freakin Poppins. And if you went over there, they would film you while they cut your throat, after they made you confess that you were an infidel who came to see them as a spy, and make you praise allah. They would then post the film on the internet, and then cut off your head, put it on a spike and put it in a prominent place to encourage others to come and see them. You cant reason with these people, you cant reason with that much hate. You can only wipe it out, and until we as a united people wipe it out, they will keep killing us, as many as a time as they can. And it's only a matter of time before it finally gets around to everyone in the free world. The only people safe from terrorists are the dead, and the unborn. Everyone else can and will be gotten to, eventually. Just recite the Zygon Invasion/Inversion speech to them. Or even better, get Peter Capaldi to do it in-character as the Doctor. What? That socialism speech... Because politically bias speeches would work...
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Brexit
Dec 7, 2016 17:49:52 GMT
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 7, 2016 17:49:52 GMT
If I ended up in the same room as a terrorist in real life, I would definitely try to reason with them. I'm being honest here. I would tell them to think about all the kids and families they'll take away by acts of terror, ask them if it's really worth it. But do you think they're reasonable and rational like that? It's a very nice thought to think that it'd stop them, but I'm afraid it wouldn't. I believe there's a person in there somewhere.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Dec 7, 2016 18:04:28 GMT
There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, which makes up about 23% of the population on the planet, of which security experts estimate about 110,000 identify with extremist organizations that are radicalized, which breaks out to .006625%. So please be very careful when you refer to anyone as "they" or "those people." Here in the US we have the most socially integrated and least radicalized Muslim population in the west. Muslims are not our enemies, they are our allies in this fight. Do not give in to hate filled rhetoric because honestly, that is what the enemy wants.
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