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Post by fitzoliverj on Aug 17, 2016 19:40:46 GMT
SPOILERS In Big Finish's "Return to Telos", {Spoiler}the fourth Doctor doesn't exactly meet the second Doctor; rather the second Doctor encounters a robot controlled by his future self. In the Nest Cottage series, {Spoiler} the fourth Doctor doesn't exactly meet the second Doctor, as his supposed past self turns out to be a clone. In Dave Stone's "Heart of TARDIS", {Spoiler}the fourth Doctor and second Doctor are in the TARDIS console room at the same time, but the fourth Doctor and Romana duck down behind the console so that the second Doctor, Jamie and Victoria don't see them.
I remember when "Heart of TARDIS" came out, one reviewer pointed out that this combination of Doctors, considering the 1960s and 1970s series each had their scenarios inserted into, might actually have got on had they met. So, what is it about them that instead makes writers want to bring them together but just not quite meet? |
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Post by omega on Aug 17, 2016 20:07:31 GMT
Return to Telos {Spoiler}
The events of the story, at least for the Fourth Doctor, are reset buttoned, one of the laziest ways to resolve a story. Tomb continues as we see in the original story and the Doctor and Leela go fishing. The absolutely boring and waste of two stories end. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2016 23:38:14 GMT
Return to Telos The events of the story, at least for the Fourth Doctor, are reset buttoned, one of the laziest ways to resolve a story. Tomb continues as we see in the original story and the Doctor and Leela go fishing. The absolutely boring and waste of two stories end. Eugh, it's always an ending that makes me think -- "Well, why have bothered with the story in the first place then?" I've only seen that work a handful of times and even then, it was treading an extremely fine line. You do yourself no favours as a writer by making the events of your story just not matter. I remember when "Heart of TARDIS" came out, one reviewer pointed out that this combination of Doctors, considering the 1960s and 1970s series each had their scenarios inserted into, might actually have got on had they met. So, what is it about them that instead makes writers want to bring them together but just not quite meet? It's a very peculiar combination, much like what would happen if you threw just the First and Third Doctors together. They're two defining incarnations that would seem to lack much chemistry when shoved into a room together without someone else to counterbalance them out. They might be one of the very few combinations outside of Ten/Five and Seven/Second that simply get along with one another. |
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Post by omega on Aug 18, 2016 0:02:24 GMT
Return to Telos The events of the story, at least for the Fourth Doctor, are reset buttoned, one of the laziest ways to resolve a story. Tomb continues as we see in the original story and the Doctor and Leela go fishing. The absolutely boring and waste of two stories end. Eugh, it's always an ending that makes me think -- "Well, why have bothered with the story in the first place then?" I've only seen that work a handful of times and even then, it was treading an extremely fine line. You do yourself no favours as a writer by making the events of your story just not matter. It works if there are dramatic or emotional stakes, like Daniel and Vala's relationship in the last episode of Stargate SG-1. However for this audio that wasn't the case. Indeed, in hindsight things could at least have gone further, such as Two and Four actually meeting. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 0:15:58 GMT
Eugh, it's always an ending that makes me think -- "Well, why have bothered with the story in the first place then?" I've only seen that work a handful of times and even then, it was treading an extremely fine line. You do yourself no favours as a writer by making the events of your story just not matter. It works if there are dramatic or emotional stakes, like Daniel and Vala's relationship in the last episode of Stargate SG-1. However for this audio that wasn't the case. Indeed, in hindsight things could at least have gone further, such as Two and Four actually meeting. Exactly, there needs to be some kind of character-based sacrifice involved in establishing the reset or even if events are placed back to normal, the characters themselves need to be able to take stock of what hasn't happened. I think I suggested on the old Big Finish forums that the stories could have benefited by starting it off as an unseen Second Doctor story (neatly advertising the potential of the upcoming Early Adventures range) with the Fourth Doctor at the periphery before switching them around in the middle a la Deckard/Batty in Blade Runner and having Four take over for the latter half with Second in the subplot. If things have to be reverted, turn it on its head and have their unawareness of events cause a cataclysm that could otherwise have been averted had they known in advance. Depending on how bold they were feeling, it could even have been made a Season 6b story, necessitating the mind-wipe at the end. It was too safe a story. |
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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 18, 2016 1:28:18 GMT
Not familiar with Heart of TARDIS but I keep suspecting that reality gets between these two Doctors as it did with the Fourth Doctor appearing in the Five Doctors via Shada. I think maybe depending on one's level of reverence for Tomb of the Cybermen that Krelos/Telos might not have turned out too bad the way things went, but the pair of stories might have been better appearing mid-series than as a finale with the risk of unfulfilled expectations (and in comparison with the very strong finale of the season just passed)? Maybe Krelos/Telos sit somewhat better with me though for thinking of them as going on in the background of Tomb of the Cybermen rather than vice-versa? Does seem to lend a bit of dimension of Tomb without being terribly intrusive or setting up any urgent need to hear them to fully understand Tomb, which is something I appreciate even though I've very keen on multi-Doctor stories.
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