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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2016 23:46:32 GMT
Hey everyone,
I've never really understood gatekeepers in fandom - to be honest, I'm just excited that people are getting into a 'cool thing'! Why do they exist?
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Post by jasonward on Sept 4, 2016 23:54:30 GMT
Never seen gatekeepers in fandom. You get into something (by watching, reading, listening etc) and you become a fan or not, unless the media itself is gatekept (and I can't think of any media that is) there's no bar to entry to fandom.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 5, 2016 2:44:34 GMT
I saw a lot of gatekeeping in the magazines I was reading growing up: there was a lot of it in the mid-80s when Star Trek: TNG was being released amidst the hype of the movie series. A lot of vitriol was spilled over people enjoying the "updated" version while the Original crew were still having adventures. That took a few years to settle down - mind you, it still exists when someone says that they prefer Voyager/ Enterprise over any of the other shows. I see a lot of hysteria over Classic/ Nu Who - not as bad as it was in the late-00s when there was a very clear divide between old and new fans, but it can still get heated (guilty of that!).
But comics fans appear to be the most targeted gatekeepers: the "fake geek girl" thankfully appears to be on its way out, after a few ugly years. And that's where I felt like I finally got a handle on the "gatekeeper" thing: sometimes we don't like it when people like the same things as us, or like it for different reasons, or like aspects that we don't like - it makes it less special, or makes us feel less unique.
But it's not just spec-fic and genre stuff - sports fans are equally as bad, but music fans are probably the worst when it comes to "protecting" what they love and repelling infidels: go on to any music forum and casually mention that you think Brian Johnson was a pretty good choice for lead singer for AC/DC and see what happens.
Apologies for rambling a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 3:10:06 GMT
But comics fans appear to be the most targeted gatekeepers: the "fake geek girl" thankfully appears to be on its way out, after a few ugly years.
May the phrase rot in hell. I can't even get my head around that labyrinthine mental gymnastics required for the whole 'fake geek girl' thing.
You were restrained, you were restrained
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Post by jasonward on Sept 5, 2016 11:13:29 GMT
How is that gatekeeping? According to the dictionary gatekeeping is "the activity of controlling, and usually limiting, general access to something." I don't argue with any of the things shutupbanks said about fans and their behaviour, except how is that gatekeeping?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 11:41:14 GMT
Hey everyone,
I've never really understood gatekeepers in fandom - to be honest, I'm just excited that people are getting into a 'cool thing'! Why do they exist? I've no idea at all what this means. Sorry. :confused:
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 12:21:07 GMT
Hey everyone,
I've never really understood gatekeepers in fandom - to be honest, I'm just excited that people are getting into a 'cool thing'! Why do they exist? I've no idea at all what this means. Sorry. :confused: In this context, a gatekeeper is someone who determines whether a newcomer is worthy of joining their fandom. You could best describe them as a controlling snob who feel as though the fledgling fan has less of a stake because they arrived late to the scene or got into it through "questionable" means; e.g. someone getting shut down because they got into Doctor Who through the Matt Smith years rather than Pat Troughton. I often get frustrated because of the exact opposite reason to gatekeepers, there are so few people willing to go out on a limb and look at Classic Who serials if they got into the new series first. There's a little bit more cajoling required to get them to look at something like Inferno or The Tomb of the Cybermen because of the formatting difference. Something as simple as those early stories not being in colour can put a person off. Edit: Actually, there's a really nice comedy sketch covering the basics of a gatekeeper which you can find here.
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Post by jasonward on Sept 5, 2016 12:37:34 GMT
Edit: Actually, there's a really nice comedy sketch covering the basics of a gatekeeper which you can find here.Still don't get how this Gatekeeping actually works, in that sketch (or series of sketches) each and every time the "gatekeeper" removed the physical media (or medium), gatekeeping by its very nature means some form of exclusion, and sure obnoxious fans could in one way or another gatekeep a forum say, we could even gatekeep this forum, insisting that all new posters have to be qualified in someway, BUT, how would us (or anyone) gatekeeping this forum prevent someone from being a fan?
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,679
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 5, 2016 13:03:40 GMT
How is that gatekeeping? According to the dictionary gatekeeping is "the activity of controlling, and usually limiting, general access to something." I don't argue with any of the things shutupbanks said about fans and their behaviour, except how is that gatekeeping? Hi Jason: it's basically the idea that because you've been a fan of something for ages, you see yourself as an authority on the topic and anyone who discovers it after you can't possibly have the same depth or appreciation of the topic that you do and don't deserve to be fans. The most famous iteration at the moment is the Sad/Rabid Puppy movement who see themselves as the only "true, worthy fans" of "proper, sense-of-wonder SF" and that all the stuff that has been written/ produced in the last X years is the product of poseurs more concerned with politics than story. Or just think evil hipsters ;-)
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Post by coffeeaddict on Sept 5, 2016 13:38:29 GMT
How is that gatekeeping? According to the dictionary gatekeeping is "the activity of controlling, and usually limiting, general access to something." I don't argue with any of the things shutupbanks said about fans and their behaviour, except how is that gatekeeping? Hi Jason: it's basically the idea that because you've been a fan of something for ages, you see yourself as an authority on the topic and anyone who discovers it after you can't possibly have the same depth or appreciation of the topic that you do and don't deserve to be fans. The most famous iteration at the moment is the Sad/Rabid Puppy movement who see themselves as the only "true, worthy fans" of "proper, sense-of-wonder SF" and that all the stuff that has been written/ produced in the last X years is the product of poseurs more concerned with politics than story. Or just think evil hipsters ;-) That is a vastly different use of the term than I have heard - context of this sort is helpful to avoid confusing those of us who haven't seen the term applied this way.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Sept 5, 2016 13:52:22 GMT
I did get into an arguement with someone online because Load by Metallica was the album that got me into the band and because it was the Blaze Bayley era that got me into Iron Maiden, he labelled me a poser and then he disappeared when I called him out on it lol
Considering i was 11/12 round the time for both lol.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 20:56:53 GMT
Edit: Actually, there's a really nice comedy sketch covering the basics of a gatekeeper which you can find here.Still don't get how this Gatekeeping actually works, in that sketch (or series of sketches) each and every time the "gatekeeper" removed the physical media (or medium), gatekeeping by its very nature means some form of exclusion, and sure obnoxious fans could in one way or another gatekeep a forum say, we could even gatekeep this forum, insisting that all new posters have to be qualified in someway, BUT, how would us (or anyone) gatekeeping this forum prevent someone from being a fan? Usually by making the atmosphere toxic. I cringe ever so slightly at Thunderbirds because of a similar incident which happened to me when I said I enjoyed both series. The fact that I grew up with the original in the 1990s was wholly irrelevant and I was a nasty, evil and stupid person because of it. It's like getting hit with a stick repeatedly across the face for saying that you liked something. You learn not to like it anymore.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,679
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 6, 2016 9:21:13 GMT
Hi Jason: it's basically the idea that because you've been a fan of something for ages, you see yourself as an authority on the topic and anyone who discovers it after you can't possibly have the same depth or appreciation of the topic that you do and don't deserve to be fans. The most famous iteration at the moment is the Sad/Rabid Puppy movement who see themselves as the only "true, worthy fans" of "proper, sense-of-wonder SF" and that all the stuff that has been written/ produced in the last X years is the product of poseurs more concerned with politics than story. Or just think evil hipsters ;-) That is a vastly different use of the term than I have heard - context of this sort is helpful to avoid confusing those of us who haven't seen the term applied this way. That's my understanding and experience of it - I could be wrong. But it's how I have experienced it in the past and seen others experience it. I probably could have simplified it by just saying "tw@ts who don't want you to like anything they think they like more than you."
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Post by coffeeaddict on Sept 6, 2016 12:27:56 GMT
That is a vastly different use of the term than I have heard - context of this sort is helpful to avoid confusing those of us who haven't seen the term applied this way. That's my understanding and experience of it - I could be wrong. But it's how I have experienced it in the past and seen others experience it. I probably could have simplified it by just saying "tw@ts who don't want you to like anything they think they like more than you." I have encountered it in a business and political sense, trust me the definition and application are vastly different.
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Sept 6, 2016 14:27:43 GMT
I think that gate keepers are a myth invented by people who met fans that were simply lacking social skills
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 20:23:08 GMT
I think that gate keepers are a myth invented by people who met fans that were simply lacking social skills I'm inclined to agree. I'm inclined to agree. You can't gatekeep fandom, but you can be obnoxious to people who are a different type of fan to you. Calling such people gatekeepers aggrandises them and grants them an authority they don't, and logically can't, have
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 23:26:34 GMT
I think that gate keepers are a myth invented by people who met fans that were simply lacking social skills I'm inclined to agree. I'm inclined to agree. You can't gatekeep fandom, but you can be obnoxious to people who are a different type of fan to you. Calling such people gatekeepers aggrandises them and grants them an authority they don't, and logically can't, have Obnoxiousness or lacking social skills is one thing... The latter even has ways of getting around it. Someone deliberately going out of their way to completely destroy any chance this person has at enjoying a show that they like because the entrant's enjoyment is somehow "less pure" is something else entirely. Again, it really is like getting hit across the face with a stick. It doesn't matter that they don't have the authority or that the rest of the community looks down on them as a joke. That person who has been attacked will probably never look at that fandom or even that show in the same positive light again. I know I can't from my experiences, it makes me flinch every time I see it. What's upsetting is that it's prevalent enough to have a label for it. They're just controlling bullies.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 4:06:14 GMT
I'm inclined to agree. I'm inclined to agree. You can't gatekeep fandom, but you can be obnoxious to people who are a different type of fan to you. Calling such people gatekeepers aggrandises them and grants them an authority they don't, and logically can't, have Obnoxiousness or lacking social skills is one thing... The latter even has ways of getting around it. Someone deliberately going out of their way to completely destroy any chance this person has at enjoying a show that they like because the entrant's enjoyment is somehow "less pure" is something else entirely. Again, it really is like getting hit across the face with a stick. It doesn't matter that they don't have the authority or that the rest of the community looks down on them as a joke. That person who has been attacked will probably never look at that fandom or even that show in the same positive light again. I know I can't from my experiences, it makes me flinch every time I see it. What's upsetting is that it's prevalent enough to have a label for it. They're just controlling bullies. Then they're bullies, not gatekeepers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 4:45:24 GMT
Obnoxiousness or lacking social skills is one thing... The latter even has ways of getting around it. Someone deliberately going out of their way to completely destroy any chance this person has at enjoying a show that they like because the entrant's enjoyment is somehow "less pure" is something else entirely. Again, it really is like getting hit across the face with a stick. It doesn't matter that they don't have the authority or that the rest of the community looks down on them as a joke. That person who has been attacked will probably never look at that fandom or even that show in the same positive light again. I know I can't from my experiences, it makes me flinch every time I see it. What's upsetting is that it's prevalent enough to have a label for it. They're just controlling bullies. Then they're bullies, not gatekeepers. Exactly. It's a weird little bit of nomenclature. I wonder where it first sprang up from? Personally, I think that fandoms are often so much better than their rabid common denominator. Capable of great harm, but rarely indicative of the healthier whole. It's sad too because they miss out on a great deal by shutting themselves off from fresh faces with new ideas.
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Post by jasonward on Sept 7, 2016 8:33:39 GMT
Obnoxiousness or lacking social skills is one thing... The latter even has ways of getting around it. Someone deliberately going out of their way to completely destroy any chance this person has at enjoying a show that they like because the entrant's enjoyment is somehow "less pure" is something else entirely. Again, it really is like getting hit across the face with a stick. It doesn't matter that they don't have the authority or that the rest of the community looks down on them as a joke. That person who has been attacked will probably never look at that fandom or even that show in the same positive light again. I know I can't from my experiences, it makes me flinch every time I see it. What's upsetting is that it's prevalent enough to have a label for it. They're just controlling bullies. They are indeed bullies, and their actions vile - I just can't see them as gatekeepers, they can't can't prevent people from being or becoming fans, sure they can put people off when they are happened upon, but they don't control access to the fandom.
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