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Post by kimalysong on Mar 25, 2017 8:52:58 GMT
Do you think the list is too long or daunting? You may wish to skip some...perhaps RtC since its not BF. I always include it in a series listen-thru because it is BF DS canon. And, if we do AD1 & AD2, I'd probably suggest breaking them each in half, for a total of 4. Each is a two disk set, so maybe split them by disk? But, I'll go along with anything. I don't have RTC so I will be skipping that but I have The House of Despair downloaded on my app ready to go.
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Post by coldlazarou on Mar 25, 2017 10:40:47 GMT
I'm always up for a reason to listen to the earlier full-casts, with that lovely haunting score. The idea of doing RtC first kind of hurts my brain, with it being set chronologically much later, though. (Though i still haven't had a chance to listen to it all the way through, so this seems as good a reason as any.)
When do we start? I'll have to remember to keep an eye on this thread.
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Post by omega on Mar 25, 2017 10:45:30 GMT
I'm always up for a reason to listen to the earlier full-casts, with that lovely haunting score. The idea of doing RtC first kind of hurts my brain, with it being set chronologically much later, though. (Though i still haven't had a chance to listen to it all the way through, so this seems as good a reason as any.) When do we start? I'll have to remember to keep an eye on this thread. I love Joseph Fox's score to bits. I've got the disc of music tracks from The Legend Reborn on my phone. Another problem with Return to Collinwood is that it's not sold through Big Finish. Sure, there's Amazon but I don't live in the US or the UK.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Mar 25, 2017 12:43:29 GMT
I think we should just do Dark Shadows 1.1 – The House of Despair Dark Shadows 1.2 – The Book of Temptation Dark Shadows 1.3 – The Christmas Presence Dark Shadows 1.4 – The Rage Beneath Dark Shadows 2.1 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 1 Dark Shadows 2.2 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 2 Dark Shadows 2.3 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 3 Dark Shadows 2.4 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 4 at the moment.
One a week?
Then afterwards we could look at if we're all up for doing the 1897 related stories. (And afterwards we can always see what that leaves us with)
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Post by omega on Mar 25, 2017 21:56:10 GMT
I think we should just do Dark Shadows 1.1 – The House of Despair Dark Shadows 1.2 – The Book of Temptation Dark Shadows 1.3 – The Christmas Presence Dark Shadows 1.4 – The Rage Beneath Dark Shadows 2.1 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 1 Dark Shadows 2.2 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 2 Dark Shadows 2.3 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 3 Dark Shadows 2.4 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 4 at the moment. One a week? Then afterwards we could look at if we're all up for doing the 1897 related stories. (And afterwards we can always see what that leaves us with) Expand that to all stories related to the 1800's and Curtain Call can fall in there.
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Post by Trace on Mar 26, 2017 3:57:56 GMT
I think we should just do Dark Shadows 1.1 – The House of Despair Dark Shadows 1.2 – The Book of Temptation Dark Shadows 1.3 – The Christmas Presence Dark Shadows 1.4 – The Rage Beneath Dark Shadows 2.1 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 1 Dark Shadows 2.2 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 2 Dark Shadows 2.3 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 3 Dark Shadows 2.4 – The Kingdom of the Dead, Part 4 at the moment. One a week? Then afterwards we could look at if we're all up for doing the 1897 related stories. (And afterwards we can always see what that leaves us with) Sounds like a good plan! I figured we'd want to do the full-casts first since that was what we all originally talked about. One a week is good...start date?
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Post by Trace on Mar 26, 2017 4:07:27 GMT
I just realized that my list of audios has "The" at the beginning of "Kingdom of the Dead"....that's a goof on my part. I quickly dashed over to my chronology and I have it correctly on there. I cut and pasted these from a different list I have, entitled "Dark Shadows Media", which is simply a reference guide for me of all Dark Shadows releases available commercially that I own, including TV, film, print (novels and comics), audios, music, and some fanfic (something that I'm not too keen on--I still like edited and published works better.)
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Mar 26, 2017 18:24:13 GMT
Shall we start from tomorrow?
So this week is The House of Despair. Listen to it this week when you can and hit us with your thoughts.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 18:35:07 GMT
Shall we start from tomorrow? So this week is The House of Despair. Listen to it this week when you can and hit us with your thoughts. Sounds good to me. It is now loaded onto my phone for tomorrow either walking the dog before work or the commute.
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Post by elkawho on Mar 28, 2017 2:28:13 GMT
Oh, I'm so glad I checked out this thread. It's been a while since I was in the DS section. I'm in, although it may be a little tough because I'm in the midst of my own Main Range listen-through. But I can think I can fit in one DS story a week. Looking forward to them!
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Post by omega on Mar 28, 2017 9:51:15 GMT
1.1: The House of DespairAs a season opener, and indeed range opener goes it's not too bad. Stuart Manning takes advantage of the last present day episode being open ended and surprisingly conflict-free to set up both established fates for the characters last known to live at Collinwood as of 1198, while setting up the mystery of where the family went to. It's a good introduction to Quentin (strong sense of family loyalty), Maggie (practical but weary), Willie (just as loyal but stresses more) and Angelique (ready to take command and makes sure Quentin knows it, not to mention her famous love for Barnabas), as well as the new character of Ed Griffin, who takes an instant dislike to Quentin. Interesting that one of the characters unaccounted for is Chris Jennings. Maybe Stuart Manning has plans for the character along the lines of a recast, like with Barnabas and, for one story only, Professor Stokes. However since the release of The Enemy Within (2013) it is a bit odd that Quentin wouldn't remember Chris had actually died, especially since he would have been close to his nephew (Tom, named for Chris's twin brother) and sister (Amy). That is what can happen though when doing stories in a floating timeline, some later details don't quite match up to the chronologically later stories and are too important to the story being told chronologically earlier. Alternatively a time travel story retconned that particular recollection of Quentin's. In the Blue Whale scene in Episode 1 Ed calls out to, and gets a response from someone he calls Joe. I wonder if Stuart Manning meant this to be Joe Haskell, or I might be reading too much into this. In the Legend Reborn documentary it's explained that they chose not to set it after Return to Collinwood because that would mean stomping all over the happy endings from that story. Just a tidbit from that I thought you guys would find interesting. I wonder what plans there were for the missing family sub-plot, since it's touched upon in The Christmas Presence and Kingdom of the Dead, but that's it really.
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Post by Zagreus on Mar 28, 2017 16:43:36 GMT
As a season opener it's not bad, but as an introduction to a range, it's not that great. There's no explanation of anything supernatural about Quentin, for instance. That aside, it does a decent enough job of introducing us to our regulars. We get Quentin and Angelique and Barnabas by the end, our supernatural triumvirate up in the house on the hill, and we get Maggie and Willie, our links back to the town, and we get Ed & Susan (though Susan's not herself) down in the town, and that's about it for this play, beyond background voices. But, these seven will make up the principle cast for the next few releases, each after this featuring a rotating guest voice/character, and it won't be until Kingdom of the dead that we add a few voices to the main cast.
As far as the actual story goes... I kind of want Strix back again, in some form. Striga are an interesting race. While some mythologies simply have them as "demonic birds of ill omen", such as the Roman origin Angelique recites, others have them as more, like in Slavic mythology where they're very similar to vampires, but associated with owls instead of bats. In that regard, they'd make a perfect foil for Barnabas. I mean, we only have Angelique's word that he's currently inhabiting the body of a "victim", what if that's actually the strix's body, and beneath that vampire curse Angelique has forced upon him once again is a curse of a different nature? Would be a subtle change of pace. He could walk around in the light, turn into a regal owl, have that affinity for birds... who knows, just a thought.
One last thought, I love, love, love the music in this. I hadn't watched any of Dark Shadows prior, so I didn't know this was quite different from the show, but the lilting melodious tunes kept me in a surreal state while listening to this, which I think really enhanced the experience.
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Post by omega on Mar 28, 2017 19:05:33 GMT
As a season opener it's not bad, but as an introduction to a range, it's not that great. There's no explanation of anything supernatural about Quentin, for instance. That aside, it does a decent enough job of introducing us to our regulars. We get Quentin and Angelique and Barnabas by the end, our supernatural triumvirate up in the house on the hill, and we get Maggie and Willie, our links back to the town, and we get Ed & Susan (though Susan's not herself) down in the town, and that's about it for this play, beyond background voices. But, these seven will make up the principle cast for the next few releases, each after this featuring a rotating guest voice/character, and it won't be until Kingdom of the dead that we add a few voices to the main cast. As far as the actual story goes... I kind of want Strix back again, in some form. Striga are an interesting race. While some mythologies simply have them as "demonic birds of ill omen", such as the Roman origin Angelique recites, others have them as more, like in Slavic mythology where they're very similar to vampires, but associated with owls instead of bats. In that regard, they'd make a perfect foil for Barnabas. I mean, we only have Angelique's word that he's currently inhabiting the body of a "victim", what if that's actually the strix's body, and beneath that vampire curse Angelique has forced upon him once again is a curse of a different nature? Would be a subtle change of pace. He could walk around in the light, turn into a regal owl, have that affinity for birds... who knows, just a thought. One last thought, I love, love, love the music in this. I hadn't watched any of Dark Shadows prior, so I didn't know this was quite different from the show, but the lilting melodious tunes kept me in a surreal state while listening to this, which I think really enhanced the experience. The Legend Reborn documentary release, covering these four stories, also includes a disc of isolated music tracks. Even if it is CD only it's well worth a listen, both for the interviews and the music.
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Post by Trace on Mar 29, 2017 1:11:11 GMT
I feel like I've maybe heard this one a hundred times. More likely, it's probably something like 20, but I never tire of a return visit. This was, for Big Finish, the one that started it all, and for DS fans, it was the first time that someone actually continued the story from the series, with original actors--and was faithful to the style and tone. Yes, we had Return to Collinwood, but that felt more "final", where these felt like true soap--the story would continue. I've always thought these earlier ones seemed much darker than the TV series, but I think that was a product of the times. As SRandom says, the music score is lush and gorgeous, and really enhances the darkness.
I like how these first four limit their main characters to 6 or 7....it took a while to get back into DS mode after so many years without it. So, they picked four central characters (five if you count Barnabas) and then wisely added just a couple new ones. I loved how the friendly (or family) connection is felt, but that everyone is hesitantly guarded with each other, not knowing whether they can each be truly trusted. Still, there's a real feel that alliances are being made to fight this first evil.
I agree--the Strega (Strix) is an interesting demon...I believe that Lilith (the first woman from apocryphal tales of the Bible--and Adam's first wife, pre-Eve) was a Strega. She's often described as a night hag, or a screech owl.
Loved Robert Rodan's cameo--a bit of foreshadowing perhaps? He pops up again later in the series! Don't think he's necessarily the same character, but who knows?
Anyway--it has all the makings of a wonderful tribute to the show. The main character arriving by train at night...the warning from another passenger, and from Maggie, the 3 mini episodes seeming like 3 days of the TV series....the lush theme music with--different composition, same tune. I disagree with SRandom when he says, "as a season opener it's not bad, but as an introduction to a range, it's not that great." At that time, with nothing to compare it to, it was indeed great!! Certainly enough to get enough people interested in this range to make it last 11 years now! Arguably, Big Finish's second most popular series. Not bad for a little American soap opera that very few Brits had ever heard of!
A joy!! Can't wait to start the next one!
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Post by barnabaslives on Mar 29, 2017 10:02:58 GMT
I think it's a testament to the excellence of The House of Despair that I'm sitting here right now writing this. "Alright, let's see what they do with a full cast Dark Shadows story" was really sort of the make-or-break point for me as a newcomer to Big Finish. To this day I remain very guarded about what makes for good Dark Shadows, and this story bears the massive responsibility of connecting to the original series in a satisfactory way for old fans of the show, but obviously very much succeeded in living up to that impossible task.
I was wondering what I was going to say about it, this being probably at least the third time I've commented on it, and I'm not sure if this is a new perspective, but on listening this time it struck me that the best way for me to think of this story and other audios, especially given the story lengths, is as if the OS had continued at the movies. I think House of Despair and many BF Dark Shadows releases could have served as exemplary as to what could have been done with the series in film, not only for Tim Burton but even for Dan Curtis himself.
That concept probably better accommodates the soundtrack, since the hauntingly beautiful score here may be what I had the biggest struggle making a connection to the OS with.
The desolation in this story is very striking and very spooky in itself, as much so as any time in the OS (for me it has a very unnerving "1995" or "pre-1897" feel to it). I thought it was very "old school" that this time Quentin is coming home to the desolation, along with any other "turnabout" here (and also some of the things that remain the same, like the summoning of Angelique), since I always think of the OS as something where given time, eventually everyone in the series gets a turn at whatever.
I almost think it might have been a good thing for this story not to have gotten further into the backgrounds of Quentin and Angelique, not only for reasons of story length, but also that I sort of almost envy the surprise of listeners new to the range who took to this and then discovered more about the characters as a bonus later on.
One thing that occurred to me particularly clearly this time around is how good the scene between Quentin and Ed is, what a great reminder that talent runs in the Selby family. Another is the quality Andrew Collins' of performance in this audio. I was thinking the whole time while listening to his story in Phantom Melodies how good he's gotten at playing Barnabas, but I was just reminded again that he always was.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Mar 29, 2017 10:32:32 GMT
I've done the first two episodes now (I was off work on Monday and Tuesday and didn't have my train journey).
The cast are all great, aren't they? And it's nice to hear John Karlen front and centre alongside the other leads.
There's no concession to new listeners though, it's very geared to those who already know what they're getting. I do think it's the stylistic changes that Joe Lidster made when he came on board that meant the audio DS range *sustained* past the first few years. These ones may have set the foundations but I think they needed firmer ground beneath them for a long term construction, and Joe came along and cleverly patted in the healthier soil of this tortuous metaphor.
There's some good atmospheric scenes here (and - unlike some of the early Dramatic Readings - there's even a plot). But you do already need to know what they're talking about - or be prepared to go and look it up.
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Post by omega on Mar 29, 2017 10:52:25 GMT
I've done the first two episodes now (I was off work on Monday and Tuesday and didn't have my train journey). The cast are all great, aren't they? And it's nice to hear John Karlen front and centre alongside the other leads. There's no concession to new listeners though, it's very geared to those who already know what they're getting. I do think it's the stylistic changes that Joe Lidster made when he cam on board that meant range audio DS *sustained* past the first few years. These ones may have set the foundations but I think they needed firmer ground beneath them for a long term construction, and Joe came along and cleverly patted the in the healthier soil of this tortuous metaphor. Joe Lidster also made it more satisfying to listen to other stories, since the six stories mini-seasons had inter-linking mentions and references. Even in Curtain Call foreshadowing Gerard Stiles in Carriage of the Damned, which in turn introduced Elspeth Gardner, who is expanded upon in The Darkest Shadow. One of the flashbacks with Maggie and Jim Hardy is recalled by Tony Peterson in The Devil Cat.
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Post by barnabaslives on Mar 29, 2017 11:08:17 GMT
Joe Lidster also made it more satisfying to listen to other stories, since the six stories mini-seasons had inter-linking mentions and references. Even in Curtain Call foreshadowing Gerard Stiles in Carriage of the Damned, which in turn introduced Elspeth Gardner, who is expanded upon in The Darkest Shadow. One of the flashbacks with Maggie and Jim Hardy is recalled by Tony Peterson in The Devil Cat. I particularly liked the connectivity of the stage-setting for Cyrus, plus it was appropriately creepy.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Mar 29, 2017 11:08:51 GMT
I've done the first two episodes now (I was off work on Monday and Tuesday and didn't have my train journey). The cast are all great, aren't they? And it's nice to hear John Karlen front and centre alongside the other leads. There's no concession to new listeners though, it's very geared to those who already know what they're getting. I do think it's the stylistic changes that Joe Lidster made when he cam on board that meant range audio DS *sustained* past the first few years. These ones may have set the foundations but I think they needed firmer ground beneath them for a long term construction, and Joe came along and cleverly patted the in the healthier soil of this tortuous metaphor. Joe Lidster also made it more satisfying to listen to other stories, since the six stories mini-seasons had inter-linking mentions and references. Even in Curtain Call foreshadowing Gerard Stiles in Carriage of the Damned, which in turn introduced Elspeth Gardner, who is expanded upon in The Darkest Shadow. One of the flashbacks with Maggie and Jim Hardy is recalled by Tony Peterson in The Devil Cat. I think by that stage we're very much in group effort - there's an additional script editor by then AND the writers were all (or if not 'all' - the vast majority) reading each other's scripts and suggesting links, etc, but certainly with Joe and Davy leading that group effort.
*IF* I remember correctly, Elspeth Gardner being in two plays was down to Davy. He suggested that two reasonably similar characters became even more similar so they could be combined into the same part and played by the same person. As I say, if I remember correctly, but I think that I do.
Davy was also a major driving force pushing for serialisation between the stories. Joe may have been thinking that way beforehand - I can't remember - but pretty much the first thing Davy said about joining Joe was that he wanted to do a proper serial and also that he felt the range needed to reflect its continuing drama roots more than a series of (mostly) separate plays did (of course Joe had been doing the linked Trask audios so the two of them were clearly signing from the same hymn sheet - or whatever the Dark Lord equivalent is).
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 29, 2017 21:18:34 GMT
Okay I feel a bit bad that I didn't really enjoy House of Despair. I DID really enjoy the characters and their interactions and all the acting was excellent as always but I found this plot didn't really engage me and I was definitely a bit lost. I would say if this was my introduction to Dark Shadows I may not have continued. I also felt maybe things felt a bit rushed here too. At the very least I can say since I knew the characters from other audios I still enjoyed hearing from them even if I wasn't engaged by the plot. Maybe it's because I am coming in as a Dark Shadows audio fan not someone familiar with the TV series (beyond the basics) Well as the next 2 are written by Scott I am looking forward to them even though these would be quite early stories for him.
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