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Post by Zagreus on Nov 4, 2016 2:23:45 GMT
So, my understanding is that the main branching of history in Parallel time is that Barnabas doesn't fool around with Angelique in the 1790s, resulting in his happy marriage to Josette, their son Bramwell, and the differing generations that follow, yes?
That being said... does that mean that Brutus Collins, and the events surrounding him and Constance, Amanda, James Forsythe, and Sarah still happened, since the branch is apparently later with Barnabas and Josette? According to the wiki, Brutus was around from circa 1630 to circa 1680, and murdered a bunch of people and hid the bodies in the forbidden room in the West Wing of Collinwood. Which is a problem, because Collinwood didn't exist at the time. Hell, the Old House didn't exist at the time, either. And according to Big Finish, Isaac didn't even make his trip to America until 1690, ten years after his own death.
So how do we reconcile this.
Well, Blood & Fire actually gives us a nice answer to this conundrum.
What if the "New House", what is now know as Collinwood, was built upon the foundation/remains of Anchor House? Anchor House was the Collins family home until at least 1767, when construction of what would later be known as The Old House began. It must also have been the house that Isaac was staying in in The Crimson Pearl. If Collinwood was indeed built upon or out of Anchor House, it would explain why Isaac's ghost appeared in Collinwood in A Collinwood Christmas, rather than in The Old House. He was appearing in his own room, as did Jenny and Trask. It would be odd if he were the only ghost not to appear in a room associated with them.
So what if the Collinses had lived in the area for some time. It's said that Isaac started the fishing fleet and the town, but what if the town was just built up on lands the family already owned? Anchor House obviously precedes The Old House, so who's the say how long it's been there? Brutus and co could just have been the extant branch of the family living in the Americas prior to Isaac crossing with his wife and child. We know that Isaac's father Amadeus was a judge of some renown in New England, presumably he built up this reputation over a period of some time, so one could easily surmise that he was perhaps established in the area already when his son sailed over with his family.
I propose that Brutus was cousin or uncle to Amadeus, and was the head of the family in the "main" timeline during the middle 1600s as well, and that Constance, Amanda, James, and Sarah, and the events surrounding them, all happened as they were described in the Parallel 1841 storyline, but, in the main timeline, the events of 1795, with Barnabas being cursed by Angelique, and all the various deaths and events surrounding that, the lottery of the forbidden room was forgotten to time. Also, that the New House, known now as Collinwood, is built upon the old Anchor House from Blood & Fire, the Collins family home prior to the construction of The Old House.
It could be interesting for Big Finish to revive this plotline in the main timeline, having someone discover the room, and disturb the restless ghosts...
*quick edit: I'm seeing sources that say Amadeus was Isaac's brother, and other sources that say he was Isaac's father, and I can't be bothered to sort it out as it's tangential to my point about Brutus and Anchor House.
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 4, 2016 4:18:42 GMT
I get headaches every time I try to mix timelines with parallel timelines. :-) Thankfully, I haven't much to mix when it comes to 1841 PT, I've only seen the storyline once and really need to brush up on it. I think if I ever catch up to it, I get to investigate whether Geoffrey or some such was Flora's father while I have a reference that says her parents were Joshua and Naomi. So far I haven't found a good timeline for PT for my own use - the Family Tree that Tracy posted is fantastic and full of info but I may have to make a more linear Family Tree for PT from it, since I seem to get lost like a mouse in a maze trying to follow it on PT relationships.
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Post by Zagreus on Nov 4, 2016 5:02:15 GMT
Granted, I've no idea how BF would reintroduce the idea and play out the story wihtout retreading some ground from the original 1841PT storyline. I do know that I'd want them to do it in the 1940s, and have Jamison and young Liz & Roger, (oh! and Burke and Laura!) and whoever else is around at the time. Pull the usual "Somebody's time traveled back into the past and is claiming to be a relative, with all the other parts played by the regulars" and have it be time for the lottery to take place. Hell, maybe we open with Jamison's death, and have his ghost haunt up the place, and our time travelling present-day character gets involved in the lottery. At the end, have everyone agree to never speak of it again, and send the present day guy back to the present. Not sure who I'd send back though... Amy maybe?
Have Jamison Selby play Jamison('s ghost) obviously, have Alexandra Donnachie play younger Liz (they had her be Naomi briefly in B&F), have... Alec Newman play younger Burke, and get Joanna Going back to be Laura. Not sure who I'd peg for younger Roger. Get some of the other actors in to play the ghosts of Brutus (Roy Thinnes?), Amanda (Nancy Barrett), Constance, and James. Bring back Lizzie Hopley as Ivanka, have a butler, some other characters... oh! Get Jerry Lacy and David Selby and Lara Parker and Andrew Collins and everyone else in for parts of varying sizes. Have a Trask and a Cunningham in there somewhere. Make it a four episode box-set like Blood & Fire and I'd be extremely satisfied with it.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Nov 4, 2016 9:32:20 GMT
have Alexandra Donnachie play younger Liz ..<snip>.. Not sure who I'd peg for younger Roger. If only Alex knew some catty young men... |
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Post by Zagreus on Nov 4, 2016 9:51:20 GMT
have Alexandra Donnachie play younger Liz ..<snip>.. Not sure who I'd peg for younger Roger. If only Alex knew some catty young men... Ha! Touché... |
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
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Post by bobod on Nov 4, 2016 10:27:13 GMT
If only Alex knew some catty young men... Ha! Touché... *smack self on wrists* 
Depending on the tone of the piece, I could hear either Wally Hamonde or Dan Collard pull off a young Roger, both versatile and know how to hit 'arch' in their own way.
Wally has only really been 'young' in Dark Shadows so far hasn't he? (Other than a few lines as his own dad.) He was terrific reading in some Barnabas dialogue at a recording once. [If he ever reads this, he's really gonna complain about those inverted commas around 'young']
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Post by Zagreus on Nov 4, 2016 16:47:35 GMT
Damn, I kind of want to write this up, but so far my spec script skills are lacking.
Anyway, anyone have any thoughts or comments on the main supposition of the topic, re: Brutus and Anchor House?
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roygill
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by roygill on Nov 4, 2016 18:51:52 GMT
I hesitate to contradict anyone's theories, but Blood & Fire establishes Anchor House as overlooking the harbour (hence the name, and the Captain's Walk balcony up top). I'm not sure that fits with it later being the site of the various Collinwoods...
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Post by Zagreus on Nov 4, 2016 20:54:50 GMT
Eh that seems fudgable. I'll need to relisten to Blood & Fire (like I need an excuse  ) to see if I can hammer out the details. |
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Post by Zagreus on Nov 4, 2016 22:46:01 GMT
I mean, Widows' Hill had to have been close enough to the town proper for the wives to wander up and watch for ships, and presumably the ships were coming in that general direction, so there's a bit of wiggle room that even current Collinwood "overlooks the wharf". Like I said, fudgable |
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Post by coldlazarou on Nov 5, 2016 13:52:01 GMT
I love this type of thing!  While i like the idea of Barnabas and Josette's marriage being the 'Time Fork' that splits off Parallel Time from our own (or from the usual Shadowsverse anyway - that's my DS version of 'Whoniverse'!), i'm not sure it quite works out... Broadly it does, i suppose, with just details like Collinwood standing in the 1600s getting in the way. Though i'm more than willing to go along with it actually being Anchor House, with the New House / Collinwood being a rebuild! Amadeus is definitely Isaac's brother, rather than father, is the one thing i'd point out. For a while i imagined some non-PT version of Brutus being their father. Presumably, Brutus would have to have a brother himself, though, to be the father of Silas Collins of the English branch of the family. I can give myself a headcanon headache overthinking these things, sometimes. I'd still love to know where Flora fits in - i do like to think that she's the 'F McA C.' of Seaview handkerchief fame, but i've never quite worked it out. Then there's Professor Anthony Collins, from the Marilyn Ross novels... (Faints of an overdose of Retcon) |
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cschell
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by cschell on Nov 5, 2016 20:10:50 GMT
I get the impression that in the Dark Shadows universe, people are slipping through Parallel Time all the time, sliding sideways via staircases, drawing rooms, dumbwaiters and coal chutes. History probably isn't a stable thing in any timeline.
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 6, 2016 3:20:40 GMT
I'd still love to know where Flora fits in - i do like to think that she's the 'F McA C.' of Seaview handkerchief fame, but i've never quite worked it out. An artifact from someone whose last name starts with C, found on Collins property, and no other ladies' name starting with F to be mentioned among the Collinses that I can think of, does make it seem that way (I too like to think that it's Flora handkerchief). She'd only need to have married into the Collins family and to have visited the Seaview estate at any time in her life. Don't know if I can find a copy to look at presently but it makes me curious whether there's something on F McA C in the series bible, Shadows on the Wall. It does seems like the kind of clue the show would drop because they have somewhere in mind for it to go maybe, as with a number of others? I get the impression that in the Dark Shadows universe, people are slipping through Parallel Time all the time, sliding sideways via staircases, drawing rooms, dumbwaiters and coal chutes. History probably isn't a stable thing in any timeline. I'm just as happy to think Daniel became deranged by accidentally stumbling in the Lottery room in 1840 PT, or that Roxanne PT escaped to another time, or that the spare wings were closed down when one of Jamison's friends stumbled into PT and was never found, or etc. |
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cschell
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by cschell on Nov 6, 2016 18:12:04 GMT
One has to wonder how Parallel Time works in relation to the battle for eternal souls. Do eternal beings fight for the same soul in all time bands? If someone is brought back to life via time-travel, does that being disappear from the eternal afterlife and reappear in the mortal world? Is there a different eternal timeless afterlife for each time band?
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Post by silverednickle on Nov 6, 2016 18:49:41 GMT
Well Hallie has made clear that she remembers being dead and the changed timeline after Barnabas, Julia, and Stokes changed 1840 around.
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Post by Trace on Nov 8, 2016 5:45:44 GMT
Well Hallie has made clear that she remembers being dead and the changed timeline after Barnabas, Julia, and Stokes changed 1840 around. Which I love!! I'm not a fan of series/storylines that retcon the past and negate the present. I always take the notion (like Hallie) that somewhere in the subconscious lies the memories of that negated event. |
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Post by Zagreus on Feb 23, 2017 1:17:45 GMT
So was thinking more about this, and I think I know how I'd work it in to the "main" timeband in a bite-sized reading, but it begs the question, who would the sacrifices have been in the previous generations? It'd presumably be the same as parallel time leading up to 1841, but it begs the question of how the curse defines a generation, and who the previous victims were. Like, perhaps Jeremiah's first wife Laura sacrificed herself in the room because she knew she'd be back later, which is why we don't hear about the curse at all until 1841. It'd be interesting to see, if the curse activates at the same time in each time band, how the main timeband cast dealt with this damn curse going off right after Barnabas leaves. But then, it seams to go off in parallel time when the head of the family passes, so maybe they don't all go off at the same time. Hell, perhaps Barnabas never actually dying has been holding off the curse from triggering for hundreds of years now.
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Post by silverednickle on Feb 28, 2017 16:40:28 GMT
Maybe it's every time Angelique dies- 1796 (possible more than once with her being banished back there in punishment), 1840, and a few times when we hit the 1960s-1970s.
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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 28, 2017 16:58:05 GMT
Hmmm, maybe there is such a room in regular time and Jenny found it, but nobody knew it so they blamed things on Quentin and Laura... maybe Daniel and Harriet were there too even? Hmmm... maybe it's not properly cursed, just... haunted by Brutus?
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Post by Zagreus on Feb 28, 2017 17:35:19 GMT
I was going to suggest a story where Quentin knows of it, and tries to use it to drive himself mad after Amanda dies, which is why they find him trying to hang himself (he knows it shouldn't work) and he gets wheeled out to Windcliff (which is the last he's seen on the show).
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) to see if I can hammer out the details.
