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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 6, 2016 13:29:09 GMT
Ah, nice to see you entered into the spirit of the thread Paul. Did you really need to dump on this thread? Your views are well known, and it's clear from the OP that this thread is not a place for them. I thought you were allowed to state opinions here. Positive or negative. Yes, but discussion is also meant to be productive. Someone failed to tell Paul that having a stuck repeat button isn't interesting or helpful. But either way, I agree with Jason: let´s get back to the matter at hand.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 6, 2016 13:29:58 GMT
Now, getting back onto topic, I agree that the bigger, more operatic tales are where NuWho excels over BF. BF put up a good show, but it cna get very muddled in the sound design.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 13:31:12 GMT
I thought you were allowed to state opinions here. Positive or negative. Yes, but discussion is also meant to be productive. Someone failed to tell Paul that having a stuck repeat button isn't interesting or helpful. But either way, I agree with Jason: let´s get back to the matter at hand. So, you and Jason were the ones who brought it off topic and then got it back on.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 6, 2016 14:11:35 GMT
Sorry but for scale of story BF can never be trumped as its all left to listener's imagination, as long as you've got a believable story and believable performances you can't go wrong, and BF have done that pretty consistently for nearly 20 years (but it all works due to ties with the TV show).
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 14:30:02 GMT
I just think we're lucky to have so much new Doctor Who stuff so regularly. I'm not sure I could really compare the te;evision show to the audios, because apart from telling good stories, the experience is so different. BF excel in audio stuff, often in a way television could not do, and vice versa. The two approaches compliment each other brilliantly.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 14:53:46 GMT
I just think we're lucky to have so much new Doctor Who stuff so regularly. I'm not sure I could really compare the te;evision show to the audios, because apart from telling good stories, the experience is so different. BF excel in audio stuff, often in a way television could not do, and vice versa. The two approaches compliment each other brilliantly. You've summed it up for me perfectly. BF and the show on TV are playing for two pretty different audiences. There's overlap, sure, but in terms of how many people watch the show, BF's market is minute. The audios, at their best, can play to that older audience and tell classic Doctor Who stories wonderfully but a lot of them wouldn't be suited for the tv show. Similarly, it's hard to say "BF is always better" when you can cite some truly awful audios too, and also television marvels like Blink or THe Doctor Dances. As mentioned already BF have had how many hundred more releases than NuWho have episodes? Quite a margin for them to have many more "hits" in. I don't think dealing in facile absolutes works here. BF have produced 10/10 audios and the show has had 10/10 episodes. Both have also given us crap at times.
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Post by pawntake on Nov 6, 2016 15:05:17 GMT
So lets go to the score cards. Its a draw!!!!!
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Nov 6, 2016 17:03:17 GMT
It has much better visuals. Hardy-har.
I suppose Murrey Gold's score... kind of. I have a lot of mixed feelings on the new show music, but essentially, at it's best, I do think it's superior to BF scores. I mean some people poo-poo the incidental music of the old show, but I love that too. It could be subdued and atmospheric. I like synth and weird noises.
BF has quite a few approaches to the music depending on who they hire. I don't think they do bombastic and melodic as well as the new show. But then I think the show has over-used bombastic and melodic, and could afford to dial things back a bit; take a page out of the incidental book. Even some current BF scores are suffering from the same thing I find.
I guess it's hard to find anything either one has done better. They've both had their ups and downs.
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Post by icecreamdf on Nov 6, 2016 18:38:10 GMT
Obviously, the TV show has the advantage of being a visual medium. Listening to BF and using my imagination is fun, but I do prefer being able to see the story. The TV also has the advantage of being set further ahead in the Doctor's life. I like hearing the old Doctors, but we already know know exactly how they regenerate, so we know that they and their TV companions will be fine by the end of the episode. On the TV show, we can usually assume that the Doctor isn't going to die or regenerate if we don't know about it beforehand, but there is always the possibility that the writers will surprise us.
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Post by omega on Nov 6, 2016 20:37:48 GMT
Now, getting back onto topic, I agree that the bigger, more operatic tales are where NuWho excels over BF. BF put up a good show, but it cna get very muddled in the sound design. Audio as a medium can be very intimate, which suits character. It's harder to convey a sense of awe without resorting to blatantly descriptive dialogue, which is very hard to get away with in full cast. It could be pulled off in narration, but there are times when you cannot beat the combination of visuals and sound to deliver a sense of epicness. The inlay artwork in the CD booklets were great for having a visual element to refer to. Another visual aspect done better on TV are particular creatures who have more of a visual hook than a audio hook. The Butcher of Brisbane features Mr Sin (he's on the cover, so it's not that much of a spoiler), who grunts and squeals, his actions conveyed via people describing them in their reaction to him. Not quite as creepy as seeing him walk about and kill people in Talons of Weng-Chiang. Gods and Monsters features the Haemovores from Curse of Fenric, who on audio just moan and shuffle. Again, their actions are given through dialogue and don't work as well as the oncoming vampire/zombie hoard we see on TV. Feast of Axos does do better with depicting Axos on audio. I know these are Classic monsters, but Big Finish have only worked with three New Series monsters so far.
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Post by icecreamdf on Nov 6, 2016 20:52:42 GMT
A good example of a New Series monster that doesn't work as well on audio is the Weeping Angels. Their Fifth Doctor story wasn't bad, but what makes them scary is the visuals.
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Post by omega on Nov 6, 2016 21:00:44 GMT
A good example of a New Series monster that doesn't work as well on audio is the Weeping Angels. Their Fifth Doctor story wasn't bad, but what makes them scary is the visuals. The scariest scenario with them would be you in a statue garden full of angel statues, with only a few of them being actual Weeping Angels. You can't tell which are the real Angels and which are really harmless statues, turning the paranoia up to eleven. A good twist would be that none of the statues are actually Angels at all, and any movement you perceive is down to your paranoia.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 21:54:04 GMT
Now, getting back onto topic, I agree that the bigger, more operatic tales are where NuWho excels over BF. BF put up a good show, but it cna get very muddled in the sound design. Audio as a medium can be very intimate, which suits character. It's harder to convey a sense of awe without resorting to blatantly descriptive dialogue, which is very hard to get away with in full cast. It could be pulled off in narration, but there are times when you cannot beat the combination of visuals and sound to deliver a sense of epicness. The inlay artwork in the CD booklets were great for having a visual element to refer to. I think that's why I like the BBC TV soundtrack releases as audios to listen to (missing episodes or not) as you get the dialogue from the TV show and the linking narration gives you a general impression of the visual elements to the story. They are great for car journeys! There's nothing worse in a 'full cast' audio than people talking to themselves and/or describing what they are doing. I also liked the CD cover centre artwork, as that image often gave you something to put in your mind when listening to the story. I would have rather paid more for the CD to keep the artwork in the booklet, than get rid of it to keep the costs down. (But that's another discussion.) The mind's eye is a very poweful thing and when you get so used to listening to audio stories - without falling asleep - a well told story on audio can convey wonderful things. Sure, TV and film is great, but listening to an enjoyable story in a nice comfy chair is a great way to relax and wind down. Often on TV and in films these days it's all about the flashy costumes, loud music and lovely effects, content can often lag behind. On audio, the BF production team have no choice but to concentrate on the actual story.
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Post by omega on Nov 6, 2016 21:57:56 GMT
Audio as a medium can be very intimate, which suits character. It's harder to convey a sense of awe without resorting to blatantly descriptive dialogue, which is very hard to get away with in full cast. It could be pulled off in narration, but there are times when you cannot beat the combination of visuals and sound to deliver a sense of epicness. The inlay artwork in the CD booklets were great for having a visual element to refer to. I think that's why I like the BBC TV soundtrack releases as audios to listen to (missing episodes or not) as you get the dialogue from the TV show and the linking narration gives you a general impression of the visual elements to the story. They are great for car journeys! There's nothing worse in a 'full cast' audio than people talking to themselves and/or describing what they are doing. I also liked the CD cover centre artwork, as that image often gave you something to put in your mind when listening to the story. I would have rather paid more for the CD to keep the artwork in the booklet, than get rid of it to keep the costs down. (But that's another discussion.) The mind's eye is a very poweful thing and when you get so used to listening to audio stories - without falling asleep - a well told story on audio can convey wonderful things. Sure, TV and film is great, but listening to an enjoyable story in a nice comfy chair is a great way to relax and wind down. Often on TV and in films these days it's all about the flashy costumes, loud music and lovely effects, content can often lag behind. On audio, the BF production team have no choice but to concentrate on the actual story. The inlay art provided a visual prompt. You got one small slice of the story and were free to visualise the rest how you wanted. What do you think of narration in Big Finish audios? Based on what you've said, the Early Adventures should appeal to you since they are written with that style in mind.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 22:52:09 GMT
I think that's why I like the BBC TV soundtrack releases as audios to listen to (missing episodes or not) as you get the dialogue from the TV show and the linking narration gives you a general impression of the visual elements to the story. They are great for car journeys! There's nothing worse in a 'full cast' audio than people talking to themselves and/or describing what they are doing. What do you think of narration in Big Finish audios? Based on what you've said, the Early Adventures should appeal to you since they are written with that style in mind. I have no problem with narration in 'full cast' audios, I think I mentioned that in a post here a while back and that lot of BBC radio dramatisations used narration by characters to set scenes. Full cast as a term for me doesn't mean no narration. Strangely enough, the Early Adventures that I have heard (2nd Doctor ones) used too much narration I thought. They were like a combination of a novel reading and a drama rather than a drama with simple linking narration. However, my main gripe with those is that the Director let Frazer Hines slip in to Jamie/Frazer mode when he was supposed to be doing a Troughton voice; it happened quite often in them, but when Frazer Hines is disciplined his Patrick Troughton is very good. I am not a massive fan of recasting either, but it's not a bad range. What would have been good is if BF had recorded the 'Lost Stories' that actually had scripts scene by scene, like the TV episodes they would have been, and then used linking narration to describe the visual elements, coupled with basic 1960's style sound effects that certainly would have given them the missing episode TV soundtrack vibe.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 7, 2016 12:05:48 GMT
A good example of a New Series monster that doesn't work as well on audio is the Weeping Angels. Their Fifth Doctor story wasn't bad, but what makes them scary is the visuals. The scariest scenario with them would be you in a statue garden full of angel statues, with only a few of them being actual Weeping Angels. You can't tell which are the real Angels and which are really harmless statues, turning the paranoia up to eleven. A good twist would be that none of the statues are actually Angels at all, and any movement you perceive is down to your paranoia. I want this story now lol
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Post by icecreamdf on Nov 7, 2016 13:27:53 GMT
A good example of a New Series monster that doesn't work as well on audio is the Weeping Angels. Their Fifth Doctor story wasn't bad, but what makes them scary is the visuals. The scariest scenario with them would be you in a statue garden full of angel statues, with only a few of them being actual Weeping Angels. You can't tell which are the real Angels and which are really harmless statues, turning the paranoia up to eleven. A good twist would be that none of the statues are actually Angels at all, and any movement you perceive is down to your paranoia. That sounds like something that could happen in real life to an over excited Doctor Who fan.
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Post by kimalysong on Nov 7, 2016 13:58:48 GMT
For me the New Series never trumps Big Finish but of course I respect people with the opposite opinion. If it wasn't for two things discovering my love for the 2nd Doctor and then discovering Big Finish I might have remained only a casual Doctor Who fan. The 2nd Doctor pushed me into seeking more Doctor Who extended media with the 2nd Doctor but I loved Big Finish so much that I ended up sticking with it all and well here I am today. I guess the Big Finish stories just match my personal tastes more.
However the great thing about Doctor Who is its so expansive that there is something for everyone. I know people who only like the New Series or who only like the Classic or who like everything. In the end we may all have our preferences but we are all Doctor Who fans at the end of the day. Yes I know this sappy message is not what this thread is even about but had to get it out there.
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Post by mrperson on Nov 7, 2016 21:36:38 GMT
I'm going to respond mostly on topic, but cannot do so fully because the t-word now lies foul on my tongue.
Heaven Sent and Blink are certainly standouts among standouts for the new series. Each did something utterly new and managed to do it in a truly captivating manner. However, I cannot very well say that either is better or worse than my favorite particular BF episodes, of which there are far far more than there are favorite new series episodes.
Do I enjoy Heaven Sent more than I enjoy the Holy Terror or Spare Parts or Aquitaine (or any of many others)? In some ways yes, in some ways no.
My general order of preference is Big Finish > Original Series > New Series.
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Post by mrperson on Nov 7, 2016 21:44:18 GMT
I like Big Finish but in my opinion the new series always delivers better stories. That's not a slight against them (I'm sure they'd agree themselves) but it's just that the new series writers are significantly more experienced. You think that Big Finish would agree that the new series is always better than Big Finish? I think you are relying a little too much on your open preference for the new series there..... I also don't know that they are "more experienced." A certain writer who is still central to BF in many ways just so happens to have penned and directed the very first main range episode, which was released in July of 1999, well before there were any new series writers..... www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/the-sirens-of-time-619Anyway, the question wasn't so much whether who has more experience in some general sense......it was when the new series has put out something better than BF in some respect.
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