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Post by J.A. Prentice on Dec 5, 2016 23:47:59 GMT
After spending all time arguing against it on the old forum, I've decided that the War Chief makes more sense as an incarnation of the Master. Not the Monk, though. The Monk is too interesting as his own character and doesn't seem consistent with the Master.
I also came around on the Doctor being half-human thing recently and now I don't mind it.
What are some things you've changed your mind on when it came to Doctor Who?
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 6, 2016 0:02:52 GMT
Before Missy I was completely against the idea of Time Lords changing gender when they regenerate. Now Missy is one of my favorite incarnations of the Master, and I have no problem with a female Doctor.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 1:15:46 GMT
After spending all time arguing against it on the old forum, I've decided that the War Chief makes more sense as an incarnation of the Master. I've actually flipped on that since finding FASA's The Legions of Death where he pops up in a different incarnation. It's amazing what one incarnation's difference can mean, I think I'd be more inclined to believe the Monk / War Chief / Master progression if there hadn't been two other versions of the Monk in the interim. Before Missy I was completely against the idea of Time Lords changing gender when they regenerate. Now Missy is one of my favorite incarnations of the Master, and I have no problem with a female Doctor. Ditto, although still a bit cautious about a female Doctor at the present. I'd like it to be done right. Also for me, it was the Moffat era in general. It's got some major flaws sure (ymmv), but there are a few stories here and there that manage to be absolutely incredible like The Snowmen and Heaven Sent. |
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Dec 6, 2016 2:20:52 GMT
After spending all time arguing against it on the old forum, I've decided that the War Chief makes more sense as an incarnation of the Master. I've actually flipped on that since finding FASA's The Legions of Death where he pops up in a different incarnation. It's amazing what one incarnation's difference can mean, I think I'd be more inclined to believe the Monk / War Chief / Master progression if there hadn't been two other versions of the Monk in the interim. I think that it's Big Finish's incarnations of the Monk that really help make him feel like a separate character to me. If I ever saw/heard/read a new take on the War Chief that made him compellingly different from the Master, I might swing back around. In The War Games, he feels very much like The Master 1.0. The whole gender-switching regeneration is another thing I've definitely come around on. I actually feel like the next Doctor should be female, partially because I think after Capaldi's brilliant take, we need something very different. |
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 6, 2016 2:25:30 GMT
I've actually flipped on that since finding FASA's The Legions of Death where he pops up in a different incarnation. It's amazing what one incarnation's difference can mean, I think I'd be more inclined to believe the Monk / War Chief / Master progression if there hadn't been two other versions of the Monk in the interim. I think that it's Big Finish's incarnations of the Monk that really help make him feel like a separate character to me. If I ever saw/heard/read a new take on the War Chief that made him compellingly different from the Master, I might swing back around. In The War Games, he feels very much like The Master 1.0. The whole gender-switching regeneration is another thing I've definitely come around on. I actually feel like the next Doctor should be female, partially because I think after Capaldi's brilliant take, we need something very different. I just didn't get the imprssion that the Doctor and the War Chief had the same kind of history together that the Doctor and the Master have. It seemed more like the War Chief knew the Doctor by reputation than that they knew eachother personally. Plus the War Chief died. On a planet with no working TARDISes. That was trapped in a forcefield shortly afterwards. If Capaldi leaves with Moffat, Chibnall might want to play things safe and start with a male Doctor. |
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 6, 2016 2:32:44 GMT
That said, what's stopping the War Chief from LYING about not having a TARDIS?
Or his funky neckwear being a remote control for a TARDIS or Vortex Manipulator?
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 6, 2016 2:46:59 GMT
That said, what's stopping the War Chief from LYING about not having a TARDIS? Or his funky neckwear being a remote control for a TARDIS or Vortex Manipulator? If he had a TARDIS he would have no reason to try to team up with the Doctor. |
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Post by constonks on Dec 6, 2016 3:24:51 GMT
The main reason I don't think the Monk, War Chief and the Master are the same person is because they've been shown not to be in a bunch of different works and I count the Virgin and BBC books the same way I'd count Big Finish. So to me they're Mortimus, Magnus and Koschei.
Going just on the TV series, though, I'm actually surprised they didn't end up being two earlier Masters. Although I suppose that does make the universe feel a little smaller and I do love the concept of a meddlesome almost-well-meaning time travelling villain.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Dec 6, 2016 4:59:38 GMT
The Master caught on fire once and then showed up like nothing happened. A little forcefield and time-looping isn't going to stop him. Especially if the CIA spotted him and decided he might be of use to them...
I'm not really attached to this one way or the other, but I've lately been thinking that it actually fits pretty neatly.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 6, 2016 6:03:50 GMT
That said, what's stopping the War Chief from LYING about not having a TARDIS? Or his funky neckwear being a remote control for a TARDIS or Vortex Manipulator? If he had a TARDIS he would have no reason to try to team up with the Doctor. The Master's idea of playing/foreplay with the Doctor is to try and murder him. engineering a team up is exactly the sort of thing the Master would do, especially if he's in one of the more sane incarnations. |
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 6, 2016 6:08:43 GMT
If he had a TARDIS he would have no reason to try to team up with the Doctor. The Master's idea of playing/foreplay with the Doctor is to try and murder him. engineering a team up is exactly the sort of thing the Master would do, especially if he's in one of the more sane incarnations. But the War Chief never tried to murder the Doctor. He pretended to be teaming up with the Doctor to offer him a share of the galaxy, but he really just needed control of the only working time machine. |
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 6, 2016 7:34:44 GMT
The Master's idea of playing/foreplay with the Doctor is to try and murder him. engineering a team up is exactly the sort of thing the Master would do, especially if he's in one of the more sane incarnations. But the War Chief never tried to murder the Doctor. He pretended to be teaming up with the Doctor to offer him a share of the galaxy, but he really just needed control of the only working time machine. Like Isaid, he was the sane one. He wanted his bestie back, so engineered a situation where he had a convincing reason to ask for help rather than simply sending a T-Mail saying "fancy a pint?". Even relatively sane, he's still the Master and his brain doesn't work like other people's. |
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Post by acousticwolf on Dec 6, 2016 9:33:40 GMT
In my eyes the War Chief has always been the Master. The Monk on the other hand is an entirely different entity and is not the same  Cheers Tony |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 9:55:12 GMT
The Master caught on fire once and then showed up like nothing happened. A little forcefield and time-looping isn't going to stop him. Especially if the CIA spotted him and decided he might be of use to them... I'm not really attached to this one way or the other, but I've lately been thinking that it actually fits pretty neatly. Well, Timewyrm: Exodus happened and the War Chief regenerated at the end into a man with "Satanic features" before being caught in a nuclear explosion, so the door is certainly open... |
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Dec 6, 2016 12:39:01 GMT
I am still of the mindset that the Virgin Books, BBC EDA's and the TV Series/NSA books/BF Audios are three seperate universe but with the majority of the comics, i think they easily fit into the Prime Universe (TV/BF)
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 6, 2016 13:53:25 GMT
But the War Chief never tried to murder the Doctor. He pretended to be teaming up with the Doctor to offer him a share of the galaxy, but he really just needed control of the only working time machine. Like Isaid, he was the sane one. He wanted his bestie back, so engineered a situation where he had a convincing reason to ask for help rather than simply sending a T-Mail saying "fancy a pint?". Even relatively sane, he's still the Master and his brain doesn't work like other people's. He had no idea the Doctor was going to pop up though. |
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Dec 6, 2016 17:53:30 GMT
I preferred to think of him as a separate character
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Post by Ela on Dec 6, 2016 18:09:01 GMT
Not this again!  The War Chief, the Monk, and the Master are all separate characters. |
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 6, 2016 21:26:58 GMT
Like Isaid, he was the sane one. He wanted his bestie back, so engineered a situation where he had a convincing reason to ask for help rather than simply sending a T-Mail saying "fancy a pint?". Even relatively sane, he's still the Master and his brain doesn't work like other people's. He had no idea the Doctor was going to pop up though. And the Master once dressed up as a zombie djinn for no reason. He's messing with the Doctors favourite pet race, of course he'll get involved eventually. |
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Post by mrperson on Dec 6, 2016 23:37:15 GMT
What are some things you've changed your mind on when it came to Doctor Who? The veracity of the claim that it's child-oriented. It's been said many times. There are certainly many silly (stupidly silly, imo) episodes, especially the Christmas ones. But stupid silliness isn't relegated to child-oriented material. For example, see the "Hangover" series (of which I've only suffered the misfortune to watch the first of). Amy's Choice Lead and main character commit suicide for all they know, because committing what might be suicide is the only way main character might once again see fiance. The Girl Who Waited Fiance, now spouse, must decide whether to kill - or worse, erase from objective reality - his older-wife, who waited decades for rescue, in order to save the younger version from those decades. OR, to condemn the younger spouse to decades of solitary confinement. There are any other number of BF episodes that strike deep and hard. Perhaps not inappropriate for a child, but definitely adult-oriented. Those are mature themes. If you approach it seriously, I think there are only a few fictional or semi-fictional choices I can bring to mind that are more adult-themed than the latter. The worst being that depicted in Sophie's Choice, specifically the choice referred to; it's a movie that damn well better haunt you. (When I say this, I mean that I don't consider the presence or absence of cursing, breasts, or blood to be a major determinant factor in child-appropriateness. A more important factor is exposure to the potential horrors of reality, which are far worse than seeing somebody's bum). I'd watched original Who as a kid. I convinced myself it was for kids and stopped until one day, perhaps around 2008, I was lying sick on the couch, flipping through channels, and stumbled across the new series. Reassessing the material as an adult, I have trouble stomaching the proposition that it's for children. No, it's something that children can enjoy but which adults can get more out of than children can. For-children is Power Rangers and Barney The Painfully Oboxious Dinosaur. Who is more like the Simpsons, in that the more you've seen and the more you know, the more you pick up on. |
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