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Post by jerryrotta on Dec 11, 2016 18:39:43 GMT
Has any Big Finish audio (or any book, comic...) ever explained why Peri seems to know so much? In Attack of the Cybermen the Doctor mentions Lytton working for the Daleks and Peri seems to instantly know what he's talking about. (I think daleks are also mentioned in Timelash and again no questions from Peri. She seems to know them). But I can't find any proof that she met the daleks with the fifth Doctor. Also Peri seems to know Jamie at least by name, that he was a companion. When did she find out about previous companions so that she remembers them instantly when the Doctor says a name?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2016 20:30:10 GMT
I don't think Big Finish have, unless you count the long period of time that Five/Peri spent together with Erimem. Attack of the Cybermen addresses some of the post-regenerative side effects that the Doctor is still experiencing despite having believed that he was now fully stabilised in The Twin Dilemma. One of these issues has led Peri to become subject to a few lapses of memory, she's been called Tegan, Zoe, Susan, Jamie and even the Terrible Zodin, so it's not impossible that she asked him who exactly all these people were. Actually, given how flighty and prideful he was, he might have shown her who they were without prompting anyway.
Burning Heart puts it down to her having been shown some "holiday snaps" (most likely uncovered through some spring cleaning) and I think two or more of the short stories have her reminisce about the Doctor warning her of the dangers that lurk beyond the TARDIS. The funny thing is that Peri seems to know the Daleks only by reputation because when she sees one in Revelation of the Daleks, she runs straight towards it, believing it to be some kind of machinery. Timelash sticks out like a sore thumb when it comes to continuity references that seem to almost deliberately not make any sense (e.g. Jo Grant, two companions for the Third Doctor, Resurrection's time corridor, two Loch Ness Monsters, etc.). The Two Doctors at least matches up with what was discussed in Attack of the Cybermen.
References are funny things... There's a Sixth Doctor comic that mentions Trantor from Isaac Asimov's Foundation as a possible destination (but dismissed as too cosmopolitan by the Doctor) and another Eighth Doctor story that says he travelled to Terry Pratchett's Discworld (to my mind, with the late, great Sir Pratchett himself in tow). I reckon if you can mention the incident without the placement (mentioning that you have been shot at, but not when or where, for example), you fare a lot better in meshing with the greater whole.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 12, 2016 5:29:41 GMT
funny, I just listened to Peri and the Piscon Paradox tonight.
Found out there are 5 Peri's running around out in the worlds of doctor who.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 5:48:02 GMT
funny, I just listened to Peri and the Piscon Paradox tonight. Found out there are 5 Peri's running around out in the worlds of doctor who. Well... Four, really, if we're counting Mindwarp. - Our Peri who never left Thoros Beta.
- The Peri who was set up as a warrior queen by King Yrcarnos and had grandchildren as seen in The Age of Chaos.
- The Peri who returned home after one adventure and suffered badly in Peri and the Piscon Paradox.
- The Peri who was set up as a warrior queen by King Yrcarnos and left to have further adventures with Sixy.
- The Peri who became an embittered older woman who blamed the Doctor for abandoning her on Thoros Beta as seen in Bad Therapy.
Yeah... The Time Lords are usually a lot better at covering up their messes than that. Must've been that civil uprising.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 12, 2016 6:02:31 GMT
It's Peri. The fifth Doctor was probably humble bragging about the things he's done in order to impress her.
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 12, 2016 6:04:51 GMT
funny, I just listened to Peri and the Piscon Paradox tonight. Found out there are 5 Peri's running around out in the worlds of doctor who. Well... Four, really, if we're counting Mindwarp. - Our Peri who never left Thoros Beta.
- The Peri who was set up as a warrior queen by King Yrcarnos and had grandchildren as seen in The Age of Chaos.
- The Peri who returned home after one adventure and suffered badly in Peri and the Piscon Paradox.
- The Peri who was set up as a warrior queen by King Yrcarnos and left to have further adventures with Sixy.
- The Peri who became an embittered older woman who blamed the Doctor for abandoning her on Thoros Beta as seen in Bad Therapy.
Yeah... The Time Lords are usually a lot better at covering up their messes than that. Must've been that civil uprising. Wasn't there also one who came back to Earth with Yrcanos who became a wrestler? Or did I just make that up?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 6:13:09 GMT
Well... Four, really, if we're counting Mindwarp. - Our Peri who never left Thoros Beta.
- The Peri who was set up as a warrior queen by King Yrcarnos and had grandchildren as seen in The Age of Chaos.
- The Peri who returned home after one adventure and suffered badly in Peri and the Piscon Paradox.
- The Peri who was set up as a warrior queen by King Yrcarnos and left to have further adventures with Sixy.
- The Peri who became an embittered older woman who blamed the Doctor for abandoning her on Thoros Beta as seen in Bad Therapy.
Yeah... The Time Lords are usually a lot better at covering up their messes than that. Must've been that civil uprising. Wasn't there also one who came back to Earth with Yrcanos who became a wrestler? Or did I just make that up? Oh, yeah! There's also the Peri who became Yrcanos's manager on the American pro-wrestling circuit from Mindwarp's novelisation, so six Peri's.
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Post by omega on Dec 12, 2016 6:24:14 GMT
It'd be clever of the Doctor to give new companions a crash course in the kinds of things he tends to get mixed up in and the more prominent enemies he's faced. At the very least it saves the viewing or listening audience an infodump of a monsters' history. After all, at the end of The Wheel in Space the Second Doctor shows Zoe Evil of the Daleks as an example of the kind of creatures out there in the universe, never mind it's a clever way to frame a repeat of Evil. It also makes a nice change from "who is the Master?" or "what are those pepper pot creatures?".
Clever idea, the Sixth Doctor has an unexplained desire to talk about Jamie with Peri, so when it comes to them actually encountering him and the Second Doctor there's minimal time wasted on explanations that would waste valuable screen time.
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Post by bohnny on Dec 12, 2016 6:26:32 GMT
The obvious and boring explanation ....
The fact that a companion 'knows' things we haven't seen/heard/read about in an adventure isn't really all that surprising - I assume the Doctor and his companion/s talk about things 'off screen' and/or the companions explore the TARDIS library a bit and learn things about the universe and its inhabitants beyond their direct experiences. Some are probably a bit more inquisitive than others, of course.
Likewise I assume that the Doctor is aware of races he hasn't met and events that he wasn't directly involved in. I had always assumed that this is why the Doctor was able to recognise a Sontaran in Time Warrior - rather than there necessarily having been an unseen encounter. (But, as it turns out BF have now added such a story ...)
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Post by omega on Dec 12, 2016 6:38:52 GMT
The obvious and boring explanation .... The fact that a companion 'knows' things we haven't seen/heard/read about in an adventure isn't really all that surprising - I assume the Doctor and his companion/s talk about things 'off screen' and/or the companions explore the TARDIS library a bit and learn things about the universe and its inhabitants beyond their direct experiences. Some are probably a bit more inquisitive than others, of course. Likewise I assume that the Doctor is aware of races he hasn't met and events that he wasn't directly involved in. I had always assumed that this is why the Doctor was able to recognise a Sontaran in Time Warrior - rather than there necessarily having been an unseen encounter. (But, as it turns out BF have now added such a story ...) It would be wise of the Doctor to at least tell his companions about regeneration, in the event they end up in a multi-Doctor story, encounter other Time Lords or simply are still companions during a regeneration story and need to trust the new Doctor to get through the current crisis alive. It would also be useful for times like if the Third Doctor UNIT period is revisited or something like that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 10:54:40 GMT
Likewise I assume that the Doctor is aware of races he hasn't met and events that he wasn't directly involved in. I had always assumed that this is why the Doctor was able to recognise a Sontaran in Time Warrior - rather than there necessarily having been an unseen encounter. (But, as it turns out BF have now added such a story ...) Well, there's still the quandary of Mondas. If you believe the books, it was the First Doctor and Susan who may have come into the sphere of the Cybermen. Perhaps, they encountered that world while it was en route to Earth? It would be wise of the Doctor to at least tell his companions about regeneration, in the event they end up in a multi-Doctor story, encounter other Time Lords or simply are still companions during a regeneration story and need to trust the new Doctor to get through the current crisis alive. It would also be useful for times like if the Third Doctor UNIT period is revisited or something like that. Most companions seem to handle it rather well, all things considered. The Power of the Daleks, The Twin Dilemma and The Christmas Invasion all have their respective companions handle the incident with little to no foreknowledge of what's to come. Rarely do we have a situation where a companion outright rejects this new incarnation at the story's conclusion like Clara did in Deep Breath (brought back only by the prompting of the Eleventh Doctor) or start in fisticuffs like it did between Seven and Mel in Time and the Rani. Deep Breath is a bit weird because it falls into that same Timelash area of continuity. The Paternoster gang have knowledge of regeneration, but Clara weirdly enough doesn't, despite her experiences in The Name of the Doctor and The Day of the Doctor. Her complete bewilderment is baffling because she more than anyone should know precisely what the process is like and how to cope with it. I'd almost go so far as to say that her rejection of him at the end of that episode is downright unreasonable considering what she knows. Time off to think some things through sure, but not outright abandoning him.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Dec 12, 2016 11:18:35 GMT
Well they both know details when first encountering them on-screen.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 12, 2016 11:26:19 GMT
Likewise I assume that the Doctor is aware of races he hasn't met and events that he wasn't directly involved in. I had always assumed that this is why the Doctor was able to recognise a Sontaran in Time Warrior - rather than there necessarily having been an unseen encounter. (But, as it turns out BF have now added such a story ...) Well, there's still the quandary of Mondas. If you believe the books, it was the First Doctor and Susan who may have come into the sphere of the Cybermen. Perhaps, they encountered that world while it was en route to Earth? It would be wise of the Doctor to at least tell his companions about regeneration, in the event they end up in a multi-Doctor story, encounter other Time Lords or simply are still companions during a regeneration story and need to trust the new Doctor to get through the current crisis alive. It would also be useful for times like if the Third Doctor UNIT period is revisited or something like that. Most companions seem to handle it rather well, all things considered. The Power of the Daleks, The Twin Dilemma and The Christmas Invasion all have their respective companions handle the incident with little to no foreknowledge of what's to come. Rarely do we have a situation where a companion outright rejects this new incarnation at the story's conclusion like Clara did in Deep Breath (brought back only by the prompting of the Eleventh Doctor) or start in fisticuffs like it did between Seven and Mel in Time and the Rani. Deep Breath is a bit weird because it falls into that same Timelash area of continuity. The Paternoster gang have knowledge of regeneration, but Clara weirdly enough doesn't, despite her experiences in The Name of the Doctor and The Day of the Doctor. Her complete bewilderment is baffling because she more than anyone should know precisely what the process is like and how to cope with it. I'd almost go so far as to say that her rejection of him at the end of that episode is downright unreasonable considering what she knows. Time off to think some things through sure, but not outright abandoning him. Clara does "get" regeneration, she just doesn't accept that the Doctor should be "old", despite meeting War, who was effectively the youngest Doctor she'd ever met.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 11:54:36 GMT
Clara does "get" regeneration, she just doesn't accept that the Doctor should be "old", despite meeting War, who was effectively the youngest Doctor she'd ever met. Eegh, somehow that seems worse. Watching it for the first time in a theatre, I thought it was a bit of metatextuality poking through.
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ljwilson
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Post by ljwilson on Dec 12, 2016 13:14:49 GMT
Peri knows too much...
You sound like a Mobster boss!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 16:04:59 GMT
Clara does "get" regeneration, she just doesn't accept that the Doctor should be "old", despite meeting War, who was effectively the youngest Doctor she'd ever met. Eegh, somehow that seems worse. Watching it for the first time in a theatre, I thought it was a bit of metatextuality poking through. Yeah I thought it was clumsy metatextuality. Clara takes the role of the audience, who may be resistant to the idea of an older Doctor and need persuading to accept him by their old favourite. All with total disregard to the integrity of what character she had. And Peri's knowing too much is the same. As the programmes audience became more insular and fan oriented, companions didn't need to query who the aliens were any more, because the audience already knew.
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Post by mrperson on Dec 12, 2016 18:16:41 GMT
Most companions seem to handle it rather well, all things considered. The Power of the Daleks, The Twin Dilemma and The Christmas Invasion all have their respective companions handle the incident with little to no foreknowledge of what's to come. Rarely do we have a situation where a companion outright rejects this new incarnation at the story's conclusion like Clara did in Deep Breath (brought back only by the prompting of the Eleventh Doctor) or start in fisticuffs like it did between Seven and Mel in Time and the Rani. Deep Breath is a bit weird because it falls into that same Timelash area of continuity. The Paternoster gang have knowledge of regeneration, but Clara weirdly enough doesn't, despite her experiences in The Name of the Doctor and The Day of the Doctor. Her complete bewilderment is baffling because she more than anyone should know precisely what the process is like and how to cope with it. I'd almost go so far as to say that her rejection of him at the end of that episode is downright unreasonable considering what she knows. Time off to think some things through sure, but not outright abandoning him. imo, it was very poorly thought out and is yet another example of the dangers in making everything arc-heavy, as is a certain showrunner's wont. S8 had the "am I a good man?" theme, which both directly and at one time explicitly involved Clara evaluating him. I doubt we'd have seen Clara acting so strangely resistant to his regeneration if Moffatt had not decided to pursue the "good man" arc/theme for S8. It was a theme which I found bizarre given that he'd already been around for 2,000 years before deciding to wonder about whether he was "good"; worse, the theme's conclusion was one that's been played out ever since classic who: that the goal is trying to be good, not making some formal assessment of whether or not one has succeeded. The only time that kind of theme would make sense would be in the years after destroying Gallifrey and before saving it...... .....because, yeah, killing billions of people would tend to make one wonder, even if one did ultimately save the rest of life in the universe in doing so).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 1:20:27 GMT
Yeah I thought it was clumsy metatextuality. Clara takes the role of the audience, who may be resistant to the idea of an older Doctor and need persuading to accept him by their old favourite. All with total disregard to the integrity of what character she had. To the point that we had that very strange conversation between her and Vastra about the Doctor potentially being perceived as her "lover". Honestly, I think Moffat pulled that off much better for The Magician's Apprentice between Missy and Clara. I really, really enjoyed that later moment because it fed my own personal theory that Missy's madness is primarily an act for people she considers beneath her. It was a theme which I found bizarre given that he'd already been around for 2,000 years before deciding to wonder about whether he was "good"; worse, the theme's conclusion was one that's been played out ever since classic who: that the goal is trying to be good, not making some formal assessment of whether or not one has succeeded. The only time that kind of theme would make sense would be in the years after destroying Gallifrey and before saving it...... .....because, yeah, killing billions of people would tend to make one wonder, even if one did ultimately save the rest of life in the universe in doing so). Exactly. It would have been much more interesting to show stories where good is as relative a concept as evil. In fact, I thought that was the road they were going down after Into the Dalek. Not so much, unfortunately. It all felt like things that had already been said and done, nothing really worth commenting on again. You don't even have to go back to the classic series to know that there are elements of evil inside the Doctor, the RTD era incarnations do demonstrate and are conscientiously aware of traits they themselves would consider undesirable. Hell, Primeval deals with this problem with one line of dialogue from the Fifth Doctor: In fact, these kinds of black-and-white moral judgments tend to come more from villains than they do protagonists in Doctor Who. The consuls in Primeval consider the Doctor evil because he dares to say that morality is a spectrum, the Doctor's acts in Trial of a Time Lord are deliberately thrown into a bad light by the Valeyard, the Daleks describe him as a terrorist in Blood of the Daleks, etc.
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Post by Ela on Dec 19, 2016 14:55:26 GMT
Peri knows too much... You sound like a Mobster boss! Ha! That made me laugh. I always just assume there must be offscreen conversations.
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