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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 11:36:12 GMT
I was curious how many audios talk about Ace's death. This is assuming they chose to count the comic canon... and being Izzy is canon I assume they should.
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Post by omega on Jan 3, 2017 11:48:13 GMT
Fitz is in a story as well, so by your logic is equally canon.
In Signs and Wonders Ace has a visions of potential futures, including her DWM fate and the one she gets in the New Adventures. However in the SJA story Death of the Doctor, Sarah Jane's research has dug up someone called Dorothy who runs A Charitable Earth. Given that's the only post-Survival mention of her on TV it's the most canonical fate her her.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 12:09:15 GMT
Timey Wimey
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 12:12:01 GMT
For the record, I like Fitz... and if Benny is canon, why wouldn't Fitz be.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Jan 3, 2017 12:28:14 GMT
I generally agree with Moffat in that it's impossible for a show about Time Travel, paradoxes and time wars to have a hard canon and I don't really worry about continuity, either enjoying or disliking the stories on their own merits rather than judging them as a small part of a whole.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 3, 2017 12:43:30 GMT
After the depiction in Ground Zero Ace's death was referenced once in an eighth Doctor comic and hasn't been mentioned by DWM comics since to my knowledge.
Other than Ace's death and the revelations of The World Shapers comics never contradict other media so they might as well be canon.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 3, 2017 13:40:59 GMT
Well with Ace's death, there is a theory that when the Doctor takes he back to the Tardis, he's restoring her to life in someway off panel and it allows it to set up one of the other series i think
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Post by sherlock on Jan 3, 2017 14:18:28 GMT
I saw one theory which argues it's actually a much older Ace in Ground Zero (apparently her jacket's appears a tighter fit or something) and thus it is the end of her life, post-NAs and Post-Gallifrey.
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Post by constonks on Jan 3, 2017 17:12:30 GMT
Here's my version of Ace's entire life with the Doctor. The only thing I don't include here is Death Comes to Time - other than that, every TV story, audio drama, novel and comic is represented.
Not long after his run-in with the Master on Cheetah World, the Doctor decided to clear out his memory a bit. Unfortunately, in doing so, he wiped that of his companion, Ace. He restored it fully and they continued to travel together. (Timewyrm: Genesys) They travelled to many different worlds, occasionally accompanied by a safecracker named Raine Creevy. (Crime of the Century)
Not long after her departure, the Doctor began to show signs of fatigue and even considered settling down to retire. (Nightshade) However, it was not to be, and the Doctor and Ace continued their travels, eventually finding themselves on the planet Heaven. On Heaven, Ace fell in love with a traveller named Jan, who ended up dying as a result of the Doctor's machinations. (Love and War) She left the Doctor and found a new life in the 26th century, before rejoining him three years later and eventually forgiving him and becoming friends (or at least less bitter enemies) with his new travelling companion, Bernice. (Deceit etc.)
When she was 26, ten years after joining the Doctor, Ace finally left. (Set Piece) The Doctor visited her in her adult years time and time again. Even after Ace had moved on, the Doctor kept going back for her. (Happy Endings, Lungbarrow, etc.)
One day, he sent her on a mission to a planet called Erratoon. There, Ace's memory was lost. She remembered bits of her travels with the Doctor, but had forgotten large chunks - even their friend Bernice. Ultimately, she was still the Ace she had become, but had no idea how she had gotten there. (The Prisoner’s Dilemma)
The Doctor returned for Ace and helped her regain her memories, using the same blueprint he had used before when he accidentally wiped her memory all those years ago. Thus, Ace was given the memories of her former self from the days following the Cheetah World incident.
They continued travelling together, the Doctor never hinting that Ace had lost around eight years of her life. She witnessed atrocities (Colditz), changed her name (and back again) and made new friends in Bev Tarrant (Dust Breeding) and Hector Schofield (The Harvest). To the latter, she admitted that she had been travelling with the Doctor for an unbelievably long time and that she didn't even know her own age anymore.
Eventually, they lost a friend and the Doctor fell back on an old solution, offering to wipe her memory clean once more. This time, Ace refused. Ace instead showed how much she had grown since the incident with Jan – she did not leave and instead demanded that the Doctor face the consequences of his actions. (Afterlife)
And so, the Doctor and Ace travelled on, reuniting with old friends along the way and making new ones. At one point, Ace caught a glimpse of her potential futures - being surrounded by giant fleas, ending up on Gallifrey, dying of old age in the TARDIS and riding a motorbike through Paris. The Doctor had already averted one of these timelines by taking Ace out of Paris, but dismissed them as alternate timelines. (Signs and Wonders)
But finally, they found themselves facing an enemy too great for them. The Threshold, a powerful force unfamiliar to the Doctor, had gathered companions from his past, and used their collective minds to unleash the Lobri - a monstrous race of giant fleas - on the late 21st century. Ace struck out against the Lobri and was killed in the process. (Ground Zero)
The Doctor took Ace's body back to the TARDIS and when she awoke, she found herself on Gallifrey. She could not remember how she got there, but she was alive and knew the Doctor had to be connected. She remembered many different pasts and understood many different timelines, and once again recognised Raine Creevy and Bernice Summerfield. (Intervention Earth, UNIT: Dominion, The New Adventures of Bernice Summerfield)
No-one yet knows what happened to Ace after this, during the many crises that faced the Time Lords in the years following the Second Romana's Presidency. Some claim she found her way to Earth, where she is running a charity. (Death of the Doctor) Whether this is a front for the Time Lords or for UNIT or just an unsubstantiated rumour remains to be seen.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jan 3, 2017 18:44:54 GMT
Don't forget, Ace also died separately in the BBC novels. Just to complicate matters!
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Jan 3, 2017 19:53:44 GMT
Dang yall, dang yall, and if you didn't hear me DANG YALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't have time for doctor who comics, dang yall! I want you to know, there is a part of me right now, that hates yall...ok I'm over the hate...now is there a collected edition I can pick up...You blankety blanks...yall talked me right into that...seriously, is there a collected edition, preferably hardback, I'm hard on tpb's
And if comics is in anyway cannon, then all the novels have to be...meep meep meep...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 20:49:27 GMT
And if comics is in anyway cannon, then all the novels have to be... The novels and comics are whatever you want them to be. Count them if you wish, ignore them if you want to. There are no set rules, only your own!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 0:54:32 GMT
Don't forget, Ace also died separately in the BBC novels. Just to complicate matters! Fortunately, that's pretty much sorted by Unnatural History and/or Sometime Never. I was curious how many audios talk about Ace's death. This is assuming they chose to count the comic canon... and being Izzy is canon I assume they should. I reckon it was part of the events of The Glorious Dead, which I won't go into for spoilers. Suffice to say that things are not quite right timeline-wise when it comes to the Eighth Doctor for a variety of reasons and it more often than not bleeds backwards into other lives as well.
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Post by constonks on Jan 4, 2017 6:10:54 GMT
Dang yall, dang yall, and if you didn't hear me DANG YALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't have time for doctor who comics, dang yall! I want you to know, there is a part of me right now, that hates yall...ok I'm over the hate...now is there a collected edition I can pick up...You blankety blanks...yall talked me right into that...seriously, is there a collected edition, preferably hardback, I'm hard on tpb's And if comics is in anyway cannon, then all the novels have to be...meep meep meep... Doctor Who is a black hole of canon that leads a fan on a dark and wonderful journey. For a glimpse at where that can lead, see the natural disaster of paragraphs I've assembled a few posts up.
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Post by sailorhaumea on Jan 4, 2017 6:19:33 GMT
I like the idea he takes Ace's body to Gallifrey, and the Time Lords revive her using regeneration energy.
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Post by omega on Jan 4, 2017 6:25:46 GMT
In Intervention Earth Ace says even she doesn't remember how she came to be on Gallifrey. I think it's Romana who ponders that events change to best fit the timeline as it stands at that point, meaning everything in Doctor Who-related fiction could have happened, just not relative to everything else or stories that contradict it. Season 6B happened when the Second Doctor has the Stattenheim remote control, but may not have happened at all outside of The Two Doctors.
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Post by constonks on Jan 4, 2017 7:04:54 GMT
In Intervention Earth Ace says even she doesn't remember how she came to be on Gallifrey. I think it's Romana who ponders that events change to best fit the timeline as it stands at that point, meaning everything in Doctor Who-related fiction could have happened, just not relative to everything else or stories that contradict it. Season 6B happened when the Second Doctor has the Stattenheim remote control, but may not have happened at all outside of The Two Doctors. I think the only thing we can say with any definitive proof is that stories are canon within themselves (most of the time).
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 4, 2017 12:51:07 GMT
In Intervention Earth Ace says even she doesn't remember how she came to be on Gallifrey. I think it's Romana who ponders that events change to best fit the timeline as it stands at that point, meaning everything in Doctor Who-related fiction could have happened, just not relative to everything else or stories that contradict it. Season 6B happened when the Second Doctor has the Stattenheim remote control, but may not have happened at all outside of The Two Doctors. I do like the notion that after Ground Zero, the Doctor takes Ace to Gallifrey and that leads to her being revived, joining the CIA and her appearances in Gallifrey
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jan 4, 2017 19:14:45 GMT
As someone with little knowledge of Ace, I always thought it would be ironic if The 7th Doctor rewrote time to stop Ace from dying then dropped off on Gallifrey to begin her timelord training...only for {Massive BBC EDA Spoiler} The 8th Doctor to kill her by accident when he destroys Gallifrey in 'The Ancestor Cell'
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 1:42:41 GMT
In Intervention Earth Ace says even she doesn't remember how she came to be on Gallifrey. I think it's Romana who ponders that events change to best fit the timeline as it stands at that point, meaning everything in Doctor Who-related fiction could have happened, just not relative to everything else or stories that contradict it. Season 6B happened when the Second Doctor has the Stattenheim remote control, but may not have happened at all outside of The Two Doctors. I do like the notion that after Ground Zero, the Doctor takes Ace to Gallifrey and that leads to her being revived, joining the CIA and her appearances in Gallifrey It feeds into ideas that would be explored in The Keep and Fire and Brimstone as well. The Threshold have a very keen interest in Crivello's Cauldron and it's somehow linked to the Time Lords.
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