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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 0:58:45 GMT
Hey everyone,
In the final year of Moffatt Who, I thought it might be a nice idea to look back at Steven Moffatt's contributions to Doctor Who across TV and print.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 6:02:06 GMT
Six years. Phew. Settle in folks, this is going to be a long one. As always, everything said is subjective, but written with necessary politeness and respect to the analysed era in question.
1. The Matt Smith Years
I enjoyed his first year and a half on the show, it was an interesting change to the aesthetic style of the programme and Matt Smith did rather well assuming the mantle from David Tennant and what must have been considered the golden years of the show up until that point. Time of the Angels / Flesh and Stone, Vincent and the Doctor and The Big Bang struck me as highlights of that season, what could be done when the show was firing on all cylinders. The story with van Gogh remains one of my favourite NuWho episodes across both producers so far purely because of the human drama so deftly woven around such a tragic figure from history. I even enjoyed Moffat's very soft reset button with the cracks in time essentially being a story arc to clean up the previous producer's story arcs. Dropping the Doctor's overt angst over the Last Great Time War was a good step too, it was time for the show to start focussing on other things and pushing forward towards a new focus.
Unluckily, it was round about Let's Kill Hitler that I think this particular tenure lost the plot. Your mileage will vary depending on what you expect from the show, but I did not enjoy the tightening emphasis on the Ponds and their staying around for way longer than was necessary for their characters. I should not be wincing every time they are brought back after being given a departure, it's a move that makes me think you don't have any other ideas for companions. River Song is a fairly divisive character too, so unfortunately that didn't help to win me over either. Certain things began to become flanderised like the Doctor becoming so "wacky" that it was impossible to perceive him as a competent incarnation and efforts to mythologise him like his predecessors felt exceedingly out of place. Certain stories began to lack endings (who actually was Kovarian?) or were given the same ending repeatedly (Hide and Time Heist are a good example despite being spread across two separate lives) and there was a certain sense that characters were trying to morph out of Doctor Who into something different like Amy Pond and her Imaginary Friend. I loathed that tacked on opening they did for international releases with her monologue, it was the epitome of everything that the show was mutating into.
Nonetheless, there are still some highlights from the post-Let's Kill Hitler period. The Snowman is my stand-out pick of those later years, I'd have loved to see this extended into a NuWho three-parter (their answer to classic Who's six-parter) and just revelled in that setting and its characters, I was that pleased with it. The Crimson Horror strikes me as the kind of story that desperately needed to be a two-parter and could benefit from a really nice NA-style novelisation, it feels like there are large chunks of the narrative missing. Actually, that's pretty much my opinion of the Eleventh Doctor's twilight really. You get this sense that after The Angels Take Manhattan, everyone was idling until the eleventh hour arrived and spirited an entirely new man into the programme. Hide, The Crimson Horror, Cold War, all feel like missed opportunities. They're missing an extra dimension that could push them towards being really great stories rather than being just average.
However, it's The Day of the Doctor which I think is totemic of what the Moffat era didn't do well. The comedy is trite, stepping all over the drama, the characters farcical (You didn't try opening the door? No one thought to open the door? Seriously?) to the point of idiocy and the biggest flaw made itself manifest -- the reset button. Something that Doctor Who used to be very good at avoiding, but sadly not these days. Gallifrey wasn't destroyed as first thought, it was instead placed in a pocket dimension and each incarnation given amnesia... That's roughly half a decade of someone else's work dulled by a retcon that isn't even that imaginative. I like to remain as objective as possible because the man does try, but the decision to do it in such a way as it undercuts the whole RTD era really irks me even years later. It's like saying at the end of The Three Doctors -- "Oh, the Third Doctor was never exiled to begin with." Not that he was forgiven, not that we've moved forward, but that it never happened. What were we doing all those years?
2. The Peter Capaldi Years
Anyway, Smith vanishes and Capaldi is in his place. It's a bold new era for the show once again and to the Moffat era's credit, there is this spark of re-invigoration. True, Deep Breath feels a bit of a jumbled mess, even for a regeneration story and the sudden decision to question the Doctor's morality as an arc comes across as baffling considering his past history (just taking NuWho into account), but there's a real sense of experimental variety as almost every kind of story is tossed at the wall. It'd be difficult not to find at least one that's appealing, I had a lot of fun with Flatline. The Doctor and Clara's acquaintance deteriorated, culminating in a story that... You know, another thing I've noticed is how badly misused the great villains are. I'm not talking about Missy here (who's grown on me thanks to Michelle Gomez's performance), but the Daleks, Cybermen, even the Sontarans don't get out unscathed. The image of them milling about St Paul's Cathedral in Dark Water pales miserably in comparison to their march down the streets in The Invasion. We've lost something, you can feel it.
Finally, we come to the most recent season and the concept behind it was fantastically brave, if in need of fine tuning. Reducing the story count by having several appear as two-parters would have worked brilliantly if not for a few hiccups along the way. Aside from its seemingly meaningless title The Magician's Apprentice / The Witch's Familiar was a superb character study of Davros, one of the few characters whom you could place in a room with the Doctor and have him chat it out like what was done previously in Terror Firma. That could be the whole story and here it works really well, Missy and Clara too are nicely characterised and utilised. Under the Lake had good set-up, but was let down by not trying to switch genres midway and essentially repeating the same beats from the first half all over again. As an attempt to do a Seven Samurai plot, The Girl Who Died fared pretty well, but I honestly do not remember its follow up The Woman Who Lived at all. Not going to go into The Zygon Invasion and I didn't see Sleep No More. The end of the season started rather intelligently with Face the Raven and its lovely concept of trap streets in London, progressing into Heaven Sent's exploration of grief and fear, but...
Hell Bent fell flat on its face. Hard. I do not remember the Doctor's conversation with Me, I do not remember anything beyond him rescuing Clara because it was such a fundamental waste of a narrative. The return of Gallifrey was a bewilderingly plain affair, a story that could easily have been told on any other world with any other set of characters. This is one of the cornerstones of your mythos, a vital aspect of the show since its revival and to treat it in such feels like, well... What is there to say? It crosses over from being disappointing and just becomes depressing. The nadir of the Moffat era's burn out where they have been outdone by The Clone Wars television series. The Return of Dr. Mysterio was definitely a step in the right direction, but it is definitely time for a change.
I hope for the better and it's certainly not a moment too soon.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Feb 6, 2017 8:58:44 GMT
Simply put, the best of Moffat sits with the best of any of the others. Although he does sit at a smaller table than Williams and Holmes. The worst of Moffat sits with the worst of any of the others. Although he does sit a better stocked table than any other then Lloyd or RTD.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 6, 2017 10:36:16 GMT
In short, it was an era of experimentation that perhaps tried to play too big in too small an arena. I imagine the'll be people who will come on and say that this was their favourite era, and of course they can, but for me, the negatives are dangerously close to outweighing the positives.
All the broken promises, unresolved story threads, the dramatically underdeveloped and ultimately wasteful arcs of Heaven and Hybrid, the cackhanded way Gallifrey was brought back in Hell Bent and the confusing shifts in tone and audience from a writing standpoint. I love Smith, Hurt and Capaldi, I love and like quite a few episodes and I've never been bored by a Moffat script (annoyed for sure, but not bored), but I can't help get the feeling that Moffat's passion was missing for a long time, and he just did what social media told him to do.
Thankfully, Heaven Sent and Mysterio showed he still has some drive in him, and the quality of Sherlock S4 could well mean he may have found the energy again that was in S5 and the first half of S6, but if he had left in S7 or 8, I would've been fine.
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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 6, 2017 13:53:19 GMT
All in all, I think it was a pretty impressive run and I should probably be more grateful than I must often sound. If mistakes were made, maybe the show tried a little too hard to sort of be all things to everyone (maybe that helped to create minor annoyances that can lend a foothold to some unfair criticisms amid other criticisms that might be warranted) and using the show as a platform for test balloons (a number of which I think must have rapidly burst).
Both of those sound kind of like a show that isn't all that sure of itself, which is kind of sad because I'm generally so not fond of TV that if you can create something I'm excited about, you most likely have a really good idea what you're doing. (To be fair, I think a hefty percentage of my New Series peeves didn't necessarily begin with Moffat, either). There's still one more season left to totally disenchant me, lol, but in the long run Moffat probably deserves a big bow that he's gotten this far without me bagging the TV series already - that really is quite the achievement if I think about it.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Feb 6, 2017 14:16:09 GMT
Moffatt spread himself too thin i feel. He came up with some brilliant stories and threads but because he was doing other stuff as well, some of the landings didnt stick and he threw bits away in one lines at times and others saying oh dont worry that may not be true.
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Post by mrperson on Feb 6, 2017 18:57:59 GMT
Heh. I feel like I ought to have saved one of my less ranty rants in a word file or something.... I think the overall biggest issue is that he's always trying to go as big and grand as possible ("The doctor faces the most adjective+est noun In. The. UNIVERSE!!!", etc), building up these really intriguing plot arcs (well, the first couple) that fall apart. It's like he's making it up as he goes along, but unlike our titular character, he doesn't actually wrap it up neatly. I also never liked the increased focus on companion home/personal lives. 45 minutes is barely enough for an episode. With Amy & Rory, we had to constantly spend time on their relationship. Ditto Clara & Danny. Not interested. In a lot of ways, the Doctors' answers to the question at 4:00 get to what I think is the fundamental issue with the show these days: it doesn't matter how flashy your special effects (or your scripts, if you will). What matters is the writing and characterization. www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI5VCIxc9O4However, that was 1993. I do doubt whether the new series would have taken off if it looked just like the original. Obviously, they've got to put some effort into effects and presentation. But I think they could do with less fancy effects and more effort on making sure story and characterization are the main focus.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 23:26:15 GMT
Can I just say thanks to michaelhocking for this thread. I never knew it was there, but I feel positively liberated now that I've gotten all that off my chest. In a lot of ways, the Doctors' answers to the question at 4:00 get to what I think is the fundamental issue with the show these days: it doesn't matter how flashy your special effects (or your scripts, if you will). What matters is the writing and characterization. www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI5VCIxc9O4However, that was 1993. I do doubt whether the new series would have taken off if it looked just like the original. Obviously, they've got to put some effort into effects and presentation. But I think they could do with less fancy effects and more effort on making sure story and characterization are the main focus. Oh, if there had been a new series in 1993 I reckon it would have looked like Thirty Years in the TARDIS, which is by no means a bad thing. Exactly. There's a very good reason that people keep coming back to series like Doomwatch, The Avengers, Quatermass, The Twilight Zone, Blake's 7 and Sapphire and Steel in spite of their stark production values. It's their fascinating ability to tell a really damn good story with very little to go off and they often manage to upstage those of a big-budget Hollywood film because they have time to focus on fully-developed characters rather than set pieces. The unofficial Stranger story that Nick Briggs wrote round about that time called In Memory Alone is three figures, a night-lit train station and the mystery of their arrival. That's all and it's still one of my favourite not- Who stories to date because of how it uses its complete lack of anything to its advantage. It's very, very important to remember that Doctor Who is always about the people we meet from the Tribe of Gum to the Cheetah people and it's a show done as Jon Pertwee said with a genuine love for what's being produced because we care about the people on the sets, not about the sets themselves. Escalation is a very easy trap to fall into as well, wanting to do the same but more, the problem there is that you're trying to replicate an old hit rather than channelling something that could be just as good if it stood on its own merits. Earthshock is a terrific serial, but I wouldn't want it to be every serial, just as Goldfinger is an excellent film, but I wouldn't want it to be every Bond film.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Feb 7, 2017 1:24:48 GMT
Yes, but with him no longer showrunner I'd love to see him back in a year or two, when that pressure is off, with another Blink or The Empty Child, when he can just write a story, one story that's just great.
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Post by elkawho on Feb 7, 2017 4:15:34 GMT
Yes, but with him no longer showrunner I'd love to see him back in a year or two, when that pressure is off, with another Blink or The Empty Child, when he can just write a story, one story that's just great. I agree. I think he's a great writer when he's working within another person's vision (or with a partner) and has another person editing his work. He did great things with/for Mark Gatiss and RTD.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Feb 7, 2017 11:11:40 GMT
Mr Moffat remains one of my favourite writers because he gave us Press Gang and Coupling ("I've just been given the keys to the gateway to paradise and I've got too many legs!" is one of the best lines in a near-perfect half-hour of television) and a hell of a lot of brilliant episodes of Who. IMNSHO he has a better strike rate than many other TV writers (Sorkin, Whedon, Kelley, etc) and has a great feel for dialogue. However, I think three seasons of a show is about when he starts to become exhausted with an idea and needs to move on. I think he's taken great care of Doctor Who and has left it in a good place for future production teams.
In terms of episodes, I don't think he wrote anything that wasn't at least entertaining although there's a couple that I've only watched twice. I freaking loved Empty Child/ Doctor Dances, Blink, Silence In The Library/ Forest Of The Dead, The Eleventh Hour, Day Of The Doctor and Heaven Sent.
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Post by muckypup on Feb 7, 2017 11:48:54 GMT
He gave RTD the best episodes for his era, but as show runner his love of "being clever" has marred every season he has been show runner
There have been good, bad, ok, poor & down right abysmal episodes but for me his love of leaving stuff unexplained, over complex story arcs, timey whimey stuff & resets has spoilt the show for me.
There have been some of my favourite episodes ever during his reign....although he has not written then
He loves his companions more than doctor, and that's never a good thing.
But he handled the 50th stuff with a masterful hand, after tennant left he handled what could have been a tricky change over well & he creates good companions just over uses them.
When we look back on his reign in 10 years I think time will have ironed out the annoying factors and the arcs will not feel as bemusing viewed as a whole & not weekly
The bloke is spent, he needs a rest, he has taken on too much.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Feb 7, 2017 20:11:08 GMT
Well, I loved Series 5,8 and 9 for the most part, but wasn't keen on most of the S6-7 eps I did watch, I much prefer the 11th/12th Doctors as characters to 9/10 and I think Moffat was a more imaginative showrunner than RTD, always looking to challenge himself and experiment with the format...Moffat Who feels much broader in scope and closer to the Classic Series than Series 1-4 i.m.o, but perhaps lost the focus on the smaller picture and the central characters in the process...
With RTD Who you generally knew what to expect and it seemed to be ran as a well oiled machine, Moffat's era as Showrunner on the other hand often came across as furiously laying the tracks in front of an oncoming train and not knowing 100% where the train was going...
Series 9 is my favourite series of New Who, whilst S6 probably ranks as the last.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Feb 7, 2017 20:14:09 GMT
Here's a question for you, Moffat has written for Seven canonical Doctors, which one did he write best?:
5 8 The War Doctor 9 10 11 12
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Post by mark687 on Feb 7, 2017 20:17:15 GMT
Here's a question for you, Moffat has written for Seven canonical Doctors, which one did he write best?: 5 8 The War Doctor 9 10 11 12 10 and 12
Regards
mark687
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Feb 7, 2017 20:20:11 GMT
Here's a question for you, Moffat has written for Seven canonical Doctors, which one did he write best?: 5 8 The War Doctor 9 10 11 12 10 and 12
Regards
mark687
12 and 8. Actually I suppose you could argue he wrote for the 1st Doctor as well ''This is the Doctor calling the War Council of Gallifrey...'' not really enough to judge how he'd capture the character properly though...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 21:22:32 GMT
My opinions are as follows.
Favourite stories from the Steven Moffat era (so far) include The Beast Below, The Doctor's Wife, Amy's Choice, Vincent and the Doctor, Impossible Astronaut, God Complex, Closing Time, Doctor Widow and the Wardrobe, Asylum of the Daleks, Cold War, The Crimson Horror, The Day of the Doctor. Deep Breath, Kill the Moon, Flatline, Dark Water/Death in Heaven, Last Christmas/The Magician's Apprentice, Under the Lake, Before the Flood and The Return of the Doctor Mysterio.
Least favourites include Victory of the Daleks, Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang, Curse of the Black Spot, A Good Man Goes to War, Let's Kill Hitler, The Wedding of River Song, The Power of Three, The Bells of St John, Rings of Akhaten, Nightmare in Silver. In the Forest of the Night, Zygon Invasion/Inversion, Heaven Sent.
I took an age to find anything to like about Amy, and found Clara pretty likeable. I felt that Steven Moffat's seasons suffered because of their respective story arcs never being resolved in a particularly satisfying or entertaining way. I also really disliked the constant use of 'shup up' as a catch phrase.
Everything else I pretty much loved. The thing I love most though, is the fact that we still have 13 episodes under SM. I cannot wait to see them, am sad to see him go, but am eager to find out what Chris Chibnall has in store.
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Post by The Matt on Feb 8, 2017 12:38:18 GMT
Moffatt brought us series 5, which for me, is the best series of Nu-Who. I can remember waiting enthusiastically for S6, thinking it would be awesome but somewhere along the line they decided to turn 11 into a gurning buffoon. As S6 went on, my enjoyment went down. Same for S7.
So the Moffett era for me symbolizes the highest highs and the lowest lows since the show came back.
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