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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 2:00:50 GMT
Hey everyone,
Why all the hate for Rose? For me, so much of her actions can be explained by her being nineteen. Any newcommers, this is a forum for polite and civil discussion - on both sides. Please be respectful. |
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Post by fingersmash on Feb 6, 2017 2:32:09 GMT
For me, it's not her time as companion it's her appearances in series 4. She almost destroyed two universes to get to the Doctor and gets rewarded for it by getting a clone that will age with her and (if you believe the deleted scene) a TARDIS.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 2:47:15 GMT
For me, it's not her time as companion it's her appearances in series 4. She almost destroyed two universes to get to the Doctor and gets rewarded for it by getting a clone that will age with her and (if you believe the deleted scene) a TARDIS.
I don't remember it being like that, though? I'm not the biggest fan of Rose's return, either (although probably a good thing in the long-run in RTD'S plan to restablish the franchise, in getting the audience to let go of Rose and getting the audience to expect the unexpected from the franchise). We know that alterante Torchwood were developing the Reality Canon, but I'm sure given the effects of inter-reality travel in Doomsday, they were making contigiences for it not to damage reality. It's only because their universe is dying and the void is 'dead' that Rose decides to take the risk to travel to the main Doctor Who universe - and that's to save all of reality.
As for the clone, I'm not the biggest fan of it either, (particularly given Ten-Two's rather direct and bloodthirsty methods). She's never given time to think about it and while I'm not the biggest fan of The Doctor/Rose's relationship, it really seems that the idea of being in a long-standing relationship is paltable to her when he dealt with some of his Time War baggage. It's more about giving Ten some peace - that a mortal life would allow him to deal with the darkness of the Time War, instead of all enterity which RUBS me the wrong way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 2:48:54 GMT
Is there all that much hate these days? I honestly don't keep up with online discussions of the new series as the arguments never change but from what I have seen in passing on FB...Clara is the one that gets a lot more grief than Rose.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 2:55:17 GMT
Is there all that much hate these days? I honestly don't keep up with online discussions of the new series as the arguments never change but from what I have seen in passing on FB...Clara is the one that gets a lot more grief than Rose.
I haven't dared to check it out! My wandering elsewhere on the 'net have lead me to stick with The Divergent Universe  But, I'm aware, it's been there for quite sometime.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Feb 6, 2017 3:38:54 GMT
I don't hate Rose, I just don't like Rose, and I hope she manages to stay gone in her other universe. I just found her annoying, and not my least favorite companion, Chameleon takes that honor, so there is that.
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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 6, 2017 3:41:29 GMT
I think Rose is really the first Soapy Companion from TV and the first one for the writers to "do stuff to". By the time they are done "doing stuff" to them, it's lucky if the companion is comprehensible let alone likable (sadly I think they've done the same with Clara, I don't even actually know how many of her there are now). Before that companions seemed more of a fixed point and you like 'em (or not) and that was basically that, whereas some of what they've done with Rose or Clara probably still make it a bit difficult for me to go back and watch certain NS episodes.
Of course, I fault the writers for being too busy "doing stuff" rather than Rose or Billie Piper and likewise with Clara and Jenna. I manage to like them well enough in spite of all the "stuff that's been done" to these characters, so I'd be thrilled to hear them in Big Finish audios. (Not overlooking that I have a DOTD story with Clara, but I've somehow succeeded in saving it along with Catherine Tate's DOTD appearance and a few other things that there aren't enough of).
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Post by agentten on Feb 6, 2017 3:54:02 GMT
If you look long enough, there's hate from pretty much everything, from show runners to Doctors to companions. It seems to be the nature of fandom on the internet. Rose happens to be my favorite companion, though, and Ten and Rose my favorite Tardis team.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 4:53:55 GMT
Honestly, I was never really bothered by Rose. She isn't my favourite companion for the Tenth Doctor, but I don't understand the sometimes overwhelming hate that I see crop up on certain sites. Oh, maybe I do. It could have something to do with ship-to-ship combat. At the very least, her soap operatic qualities aren't nearly comparable to Kara Thrace or any of the other Battlestar Galactica characters where it just becomes unmanageable after a certain point. Clara is the one that gets a lot more grief than Rose. Unfortunately, Clara's characterisation is all over the place towards the latter half of her time on the show (compare her appearance in Deep Breath with Face the Raven and you'll see what I mean) and she really seemed to suffer from Adric syndrome prior to Death in Heaven. That is to say, there is a fundamental justification for the character's more questionable, nay unconscionable actions that we are not seeing. With Adric, it was that he was feeling more and more out of place with this new incarnation of the Doctor. In a flash, his mentor whom he had known for a couple days, spiriting him away from his home had turned into someone completely different and as an adolescent he didn't handle that transition well. Clara... Hmm... I think she was always an outsider, even in her normal life on Earth. She never really seem to fit in anywhere, probably why she went for the ex-soldier who too felt out of place. She's a survivor, grabbing the Doctor's keys and throwing them into a volcano is very calculated for a fit of grief, so I think she's very reserved and refractive. Maybe that's why Face the Raven ended up the way it did, the Doctor tried talking to her about what had happened and she didn't move. |
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 6, 2017 10:24:18 GMT
From what I've noticed, a lot of it stems from her sometimes too carefree attitude and what is seen as her kinda poor treatment of Mickey. Especially at the end of Rose when she says goodbye and then when she hears him being accused of murder - it can be percieved as insensitive.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 12:00:27 GMT
I didn't realise there was much hate for Rose. Again, it seems Clara gets all the grief at the moment, because ... well who knows? I'm surprised Amy remains unscathed, I thought she was a less pleasant personality than the other two, what with her treatment of Rory and bizarre attempted seduction of the Doctor on the eve of her wedding.
I loved Rose. I thought she was the ideal companion to kick off the relaunched show. Perhaps it is because she is the only companion The Doctor has ever fallen for that causes the dislike.
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Post by mrperson on Feb 6, 2017 16:52:50 GMT
I remember finding her annoying and also harboring a very strong dislike for any sort of Doctor-Human romance (I also tend to ignore the movie's "half human" business). But, I don't remember exactly why she annoyed me. Been several years since I watched anything earlier than S5.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 21:58:14 GMT
Rose was a bit annoying with the Tenth Doctor, but I didn't hate her.
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Post by icecreamdf on Feb 7, 2017 5:24:05 GMT
For me, it's not her time as companion it's her appearances in series 4. She almost destroyed two universes to get to the Doctor and gets rewarded for it by getting a clone that will age with her and (if you believe the deleted scene) a TARDIS. She didn't almost destroy two universes. The reality cannon didn't actually work at first. Davros' reality bomb caused the walls of the universes to collapse, and that allowed the reality cannon to work. |
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Post by acousticwolf on Feb 7, 2017 9:00:31 GMT
I don't hate Rose (hate is far too strong a word to use in general) but I really dislike her. The way she treats Mickey throughout is appalling and I never got the romance thing with Ten. Nine I could understand, but Ten was off with whoever was around at the time - just look at Madame De Pompadour. If she had come on board, it would have been "thanks and goodnight" for Rose. For me the whole relationship thing didn't work, just seemed to be a plot device ... Bad Wolf girl on the other hand was great Cheers Tony |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 22:48:12 GMT
From what I've noticed, a lot of it stems from her sometimes too carefree attitude and what is seen as her kinda poor treatment of Mickey. Especially at the end of Rose when she says goodbye and then when she hears him being accused of murder - it can be percieved as insensitive.
Eh, in Rose, Mickey is the very definition of a crap boyfriend - going down to the pub after your girlfriend was nearly killed in an expolsion after giving her five munutes of comfort? It struck me she very much, given her situation, settled for him and let's not forget he was content to leave The Doctor to die. After saving the world and given the madning impossible gift of traveling in time, Rose saw that she could be more and she was worth something. They had the breakup. I'd dropped him like a stone, too.
I do think she treated Mickey badly, afterwards, though, but it also struck me as being realistic for people who do get opportunties to get out of their situation or move away and have different experiences and don't fit into their hometown or previous relationships. They couldn't have the break up talk in Aliens of London and World War Three and Rose felt she owed him so much. And to me, it's understandable that she would - she ddin't know if The Doctor liked her or if he could even do things like that, her insecurties about traveling with The Doctor - would he grow tired of her? Did he just need someone to be there for him deal with his trauma? Did he make a mistake in picking her? (Not to menticon the events of Father's Day) But she waited too long and by Boom Town, both of them needed to deal with how she'd changed and it was abundactly clear that he didn't fit in her new life. And to be fair, I think while Rose does deserve a lot of the blame and not disregarding Mickey's time in jail, Mickey isn't enterily blameless, either. Both of them knew Rose had changed and both needed to address the situation like the adults you find yourself being at nineteen.
They tried being friends afterwards and as awful as it was seeing Rose backslide on New Earth with that friendly kiss on the head, I think it's important to remember that Jack was gone. Rose didn't want to worry her Mum too much and she needed someone else to help her deal with The Doctor's regeneration. Meeting Sarah Jane and reliasing that her relationship with The Doctor might not be tenable was a huge driving force in letting Mickey stay onboard the TARDIS (and Doctor what were you doing when inviting Mickey onboard? Really? Talk it out, you idioit) As hard as it was for Mickey, he knew what he was getting into when he stepped through those TARDIS doors, even if he didn't want to admit it. Let's not forget the added difficulty of just how close-knit The Powell Estate probably is and how that affected both of them.
And I think with Jake, Mickey finally reliased what it was like to be be in a relationship with someone where your not what they need and feel obligated to stay nd someone trying to hang on to you, even for different reasons. Also, I think Mickey was always a bit lost after his Nan died and I think he found a support structure in both Rose and Jackie, something he only really dealt with in looking after his alterante Grandmother.
As for her carefree attiude, Rose was rubbing off on a certain Time Lord and let's not forget she was an estate kid. She didn't have to worry about money and she could go anywhere and everywhere!
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Post by mrperson on Feb 7, 2017 23:18:41 GMT
^^
I think I need to rewatch new S1-S4. Seems I have forgotten quite a bit.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 8, 2017 3:24:12 GMT
My problem with Rose was that her story was told. Done. Finished. With series 4 RTD went back to a well that had already been used up. There should have been nothing from Rose after series 2 except for 10's last moment on earth before he regenerated in the TARDIS.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 4:04:11 GMT
My problem with Rose was that her story was told. Done. Finished. With series 4 RTD went back to a well that had already been used up. There should have been nothing from Rose after series 2 except for 10's last moment on earth before he regenerated in the TARDIS.
As much as we might not like it, I think it was crucial for the revival audience to let go of Rose and establish the rotating format of companions. For the revival audience, Doctor Who was very much The Doctor and Rose's story (with series one/season twenty-seven being very much her story) and her spectre very much hung over the show. That's not Doctor Who to us, but that's what Doctor Who was to a massive audience. Martha had been favourably recieved, but series four/season forty was VERY much establishing change was part of the show's format (particularly with Tate's casting and Billie Pipper's success elsewhere) and that The Doctor's companions would come and go. Giving a firm, concrete resolution to that story was crucial in setting the format and that The Doctor's story would go on without her and made way for audiences to accept future Doctors.
Also, let's not forget that there was a huge push from revival fans for Rose's return, as well.
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Post by theotherjosh on Feb 9, 2017 11:34:05 GMT
My feelings towards Rose are cyclic. I loved her at first. She had pluck and agency, but more importantly, she was a great audience surrogate, which is what the first companion needed to be on the revived series.
I can't remember when I started actively disliking her, but I know that I really enjoyed this exchange from Bad Wolf, so it must have been by then:
The Anne Droid: So, Rose, what do you actually do?
Rose Tyler: I just travel about a bit. Bit of a tourist, I suppose.
The Anne Droid: Another way of saying unemployed?
Rose Tyler: No.
The Anne Droid: Have you got a job?
Rose Tyler: Well, not really, no.
The Anne Droid: Then you *are* unemployed. And yet you've still got enough money to buy peroxide.
I just downright hated her by the time the love story angle was front and center.
Now, though, I'm thinking that she wasn't too bad. I suppose part of this is the natural tendency of Doctor Who fans to retroactively appreciate older material when we contrast it against whatever's bothering us about the current output.
How do I feel now? Rose had the difficult job of easing new viewers into a new era of Doctor Who and I think she achieved that admirably. I also think that she overstayed her welcome, but that's hardly a problem unique to Rose.
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But, I'm aware, it's been there for quite sometime.
