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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 0:38:28 GMT
Hey everyone,
Just wondering: do you think The Sandmen can be redeemed? Just think of them given the Big Finish treatment....  |
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Post by ollychops on Apr 3, 2017 1:23:39 GMT
The creatures from Sleep No More? No, I don't think so. I can't see what BF could do with them, especially since they didn't really do a lot in the episode itself. IMO, they shouldn't have even been in the episode - it could have had so much potential to be a good episode, but they went with sleep dust monsters. I know DW is a family show, but... really?
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Apr 3, 2017 2:54:52 GMT
I want to see where Gatiss wants to take them, he made reference to a loose trilogy of stories IIRC.
They're a very specific threat though, don't use the machine and they can't affect you, therefore the threat in Sleep No More was to Clara but not the Doctor.
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Post by fingersmash on Apr 3, 2017 3:14:46 GMT
"There is no such thing as a bad character, only a bad writer." So yes, they can be redeemed.
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Post by icecreamdf on Apr 3, 2017 4:12:52 GMT
I'm sure they can be redeemed. I'm just not sure if its really worth redeeming them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 4:13:47 GMT
I'm sure they can be redeemed. I'm just not sure if its really worth redeeming them.
Eh, give or take ten years, Big Finish probably will rise to the challenge. It's part of their appeal.
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Apr 3, 2017 7:08:55 GMT
I thought this was a pot shot at the Colin story
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 9:41:21 GMT
When I read the advance snippets before the episode aired, the Sandmen sounded fantastic. I loved the idea of creatures who come into being as a result of sleep deprivation. I have an irrational dislike of sleep myself and thought the concept sounded so sinister and creepy and abstract.
Then during the episode it was revealed that the creatures were actually formed of the crusty nuggets that build up in the corners of your eyes during sleep and my brain completely rejected it as too silly. I know this is a personal response, as you could equally argue it's all silly, but this completely stripped away the scariness for me.
So I think they could be redeemed and quite a creepy story could be built around them, but I'd prefer whoever did to focus more on the psychological aspect of creatures who sneak into existence when you don't get enough sleep and dial down the big, roaring, lumbering flakes of eye gunk :-)
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Post by sherlock on Apr 3, 2017 9:55:15 GMT
They could be redeemed, if Sleep No More had actually made any sense. The Sandmen were alright as monsters, though still not entirely clear what they were (people transformed into sleep dust? Sleep dust in the shape of the people it had consumed?) and all they did was lumber around. If the episode they were in had made any sense (I mean seriously, what was the villain's plan in Sleep No More, it seems to change every five minutes) they might have been more effective, one feeling I never expected to have at the end of an episode is: What Is Happening? I was genuinely confused and not in a good way, in an annoying way. A re-watch didn't clear it up much either.
Found-footage is a genuinely good idea, but I hate it when it's used as an excuse for not telling the viewer what's actually happening.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 3, 2017 9:56:24 GMT
The problem with the EP is that the found footage was deliberately skewed towards the Sandman however it made the entire ep so dull. So no I'm in no hurry for them to get the BF treatment.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 11:24:28 GMT
Yes. Of course. But despite Mark's idea for a sequel, it's not happening this year and next year? Well, it's not Steven Moffat's call anymore and we've no idea if Chris Chibnall will still use Gatiss as a writer, and if he did that he'd want a sequel to a (by-then) 3 year old episode that had one of the lowest AI scores and ratings combos in Nu-Who. Personally, I didn't mind Sleep No More. If only because it gave me Reece Shearsmith in Who. He, along with Capaldi, Ruth Wilson and Chiwitel Ejifor, has been my shortlist of future Doctors for years now. |
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Post by constonks on Apr 3, 2017 12:03:41 GMT
I'm sure they can be redeemed. I'm just not sure if its really worth redeeming them.
Eh, give or take ten years, Big Finish probably will rise to the challenge. It's part of their appeal.
Of course, there are still no Bandril, Borad or Plasmaton audios... |
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Post by number13 on Apr 3, 2017 12:07:49 GMT
When I read the thread title I thought it meant the true Sandmen, from 'The Entropy Plague'.
A great concept for monsters who fit their decaying world perfectly, in a great story.
(I had already forgotten the TV ones were even called Sandmen, not so great.)
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Post by mrperson on Apr 3, 2017 15:23:36 GMT
No.
It could have been a disease that slowly wastes a body a way, it could have been a disease that makes people hallucinate that others are turning into sandmen (and then kill them), it could have been any number of things. But it was an electronic signal that makes your body convert itself into dried mucous, which is magically ambulatory despite having no apparent structure other than an outer "skin". Too much silly for me.
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Post by mrperson on Apr 3, 2017 15:25:26 GMT
When I read the thread title I thought it meant the true Sandmen, from 'The Entropy Plague'. A great concept for monsters who fit their decaying world perfectly, in a great story. (I had already forgotten the TV ones were even called Sandmen, not so great.) Didn't work well for me either, but I chose to give it a pass as they were in an alternate universe whose physics were largely the same but not necessarily fully explored. Maybe there was some bizarro quirk that allowed for a physical embodiment of a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system. But if they tried that set in this universe, I'd be rolling my eyes. Terms of art from physics/thermodynamics do not have phsyical embodiments, period. |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Apr 3, 2017 15:32:53 GMT
They don't need to be redeemed. People only hated them because the show tried to do something different by utilising the found footage format.
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Post by barnabaslives on Apr 3, 2017 17:22:00 GMT
I also had trouble taking them seriously and thought the premise of being menaced by eye bogeys was kind of silly, and couldn't think of any Doctor's era where they wouldn't seem that way. Terms of art from physics/thermodynamics do not have physical embodiments, period. It's for their own good, really... If The Second Law of Thermodynamics were a person, I'd be likely to give them a sound thrashing for crimes against humanity. |
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Post by shallacatop on Apr 3, 2017 18:36:18 GMT
I think Sleep No More is *brilliant*. An extended episode of Inside No. 9 guest starring Peter Capaldi as the Doctor? And he loses in the end? What's not to love!
As for redeeming the Sandmen? I don't think they were poor to warrant redeeming. I would love a sequel to Sleep No More though, where the TARDIS lands somewhere in the infected solar system. I think it's important that the events of the story aren't undone and it would be written by Mark Gatiss. I don't think either would happen, so I'm very happy for Sleep No More to remain an oddity in the Doctor Who canon. And it's all the more better for it.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 3, 2017 18:38:01 GMT
When I read the thread title I thought it meant the true Sandmen, from 'The Entropy Plague'. A great concept for monsters who fit their decaying world perfectly, in a great story. (I had already forgotten the TV ones were even called Sandmen, not so great.) Didn't work well for me either, but I chose to give it a pass as they were in an alternate universe whose physics were largely the same but not necessarily fully explored. Maybe there was some bizarro quirk that allowed for a physical embodiment of a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system. But if they tried that set in this universe, I'd be rolling my eyes. Terms of art from physics/thermodynamics do not have phsyical embodiments, period. Thank you! (Recalls raging argument with a friend, who is actually lovely, who ranted about economic growth violating the second law of thermodynamics.) |
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Post by number13 on Apr 3, 2017 20:20:53 GMT
When I read the thread title I thought it meant the true Sandmen, from 'The Entropy Plague'. A great concept for monsters who fit their decaying world perfectly, in a great story. (I had already forgotten the TV ones were even called Sandmen, not so great.) Didn't work well for me either, but I chose to give it a pass as they were in an alternate universe whose physics were largely the same but not necessarily fully explored. Maybe there was some bizarro quirk that allowed for a physical embodiment of a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system. But if they tried that set in this universe, I'd be rolling my eyes. Terms of art from physics/thermodynamics do not have phsyical embodiments, period. I liked 'The Entropy Plague' Sandmen and the obvious problems with the laws of physics didn't bother me, in a story which also had space pirates with a spaceship plus accents straight out of Treasure Island and robots powered by coal and steam because that form of energy was somehow exempt, not being electrical energy you see...! (Never mind the bio-electrical energy in the bodies of all the characters!) I think the laws of physics are best kept in a pocket dimension while watching 'Doctor Who', for their own safety! |
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