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Post by Whovitt on Feb 18, 2020 13:40:48 GMT
I don't disbelieve you, but I won't set my expectations too high. While I genuinely do enjoy the majority of Big Finish's output, I don't tend to find it as amazing as most people do. It's all consistently "good", but I draw pretty rough lines between "good" and "great" (let alone amazing ) and most people's "great" only tends to make my "good". (Maybe that means I should lower my standards? Or maybe I'm just a grouch and not as easily impressed? If I did lower my standards though and something really amazing does come along, I wouldn't appreciate it as much as everything would seem so normally "great". It's all a bit of a lose-lose ) It's all subjective so as long as you're enjoying most of the audios you buy, that's all that matters I guess? And it's all relative - I can certainly point to audios which are my top favourites, so I'm still sorting and ranking them and can point to a few which stand above the rest, however I might express the rankings, if that makes sense.
I probably enjoyed this story even more because it did surpass my expectations. I was looking forward to it least because Danny Pink - and I enjoyed it most, because Danny Pink! Not for the first time, BF's writers (Mark Morris in this case) have transformed my opinion of a TV character. (For me, Mel is the ultimate example of this. Awful character in S24 imo, excellent in BF right from her first appearance in Pompeii.) To be fair, I definitely don't have any expectations for a Danny episode, so I'm hopefully going to be just as pleasantly surprised as you were
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 14:13:24 GMT
I don't disbelieve you, but I won't set my expectations too high. While I genuinely do enjoy the majority of Big Finish's output, I don't tend to find it as amazing as most people do. It's all consistently "good", but I draw pretty rough lines between "good" and "great" (let alone amazing ) and most people's "great" only tends to make my "good". (Maybe that means I should lower my standards? Or maybe I'm just a grouch and not as easily impressed? If I did lower my standards though and something really amazing does come along, I wouldn't appreciate it as much as everything would seem so normally "great". It's all a bit of a lose-lose ) It's all subjective so as long as you're enjoying most of the audios you buy, that's all that matters I guess? And it's all relative - I can certainly point to audios which are my top favourites, so I'm still sorting and ranking them and can point to a few which stand above the rest, however I might express the rankings, if that makes sense.
I probably enjoyed this story even more because it did surpass my expectations. I was looking forward to it least because Danny Pink - and I enjoyed it most, because Danny Pink! Not for the first time, BF's writers (Mark Morris in this case) have transformed my opinion of a TV character. (For me, Mel is the ultimate example of this. Awful character in S24 imo, excellent in BF right from her first appearance in Pompeii.) We're similiar in this (again!). I enjoy rankings, and analysing them, but I must admit to finding it hard to do myself. My general rule is a bit different. I know Audio dislikes 10/10 scores as that's saying something is perfect wheras I have no issue with them as I think something can still be imperfect yet achieve everything it's actually setting out to do perfectly. Perfectly itself, in essence. You and I love old horrors..I'd say a lot of my Hammer and Amicus love falls in there. Perfect films? No -there's no chance of them troubling the legendary Sight And Sound list of lists when it next happens in 2022 - but a film like Frankenstein Created Woman or From Beyond The Grave is EXACTLY what is needs to be and is attempting. So..10/10. BF, for example, one of my all time favourites is Excelis Dawns. People think I'm joking when I describe it as one of my favourite BF titles ever but it's everything I want from it and more. Ditto The Scorchies, or The Time Museum and so many others. There are Big Finish releases that might be "better" but I find them unambitious and middle of the road with no ambition other than to play it safe for 2 hours. That kind of release never gets top marks in my book. We do disagree a bit on Mel though, I like her on TV more than most! To see someone bouncy and fun who actively wants to be there again? What a breath of fresh air! Plus when I was but a bairn I had a Sooty video with Bonnie Langford guesting so she's probably the first Who companion I knew!
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Post by OneTen on Feb 18, 2020 14:24:05 GMT
BF, for example, one of my all time favourites is Excelis Dawns. People think I'm joking when I describe it as one of my favourite BF titles ever but it's everything I want from it and more. Who are these people who think you are joking? Doesn't everyone love Excelis Dawns? It's fabulous
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 18, 2020 19:03:01 GMT
BF, for example, one of my all time favourites is Excelis Dawns. People think I'm joking when I describe it as one of my favourite BF titles ever but it's everything I want from it and more. Who are these people who think you are joking? Doesn't everyone love Excelis Dawns? It's fabulous I only just recently have listened to it and it is indeed very fun.
I was a bit surprised that it does not get higher ratings... although, of course, Iris is not to everyone's taste.
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Post by polly on Feb 18, 2020 20:25:33 GMT
We're similiar in this (again!). I enjoy rankings, and analysing them, but I must admit to finding it hard to do myself. My general rule is a bit different. I know Audio dislikes 10/10 scores as that's saying something is perfect wheras I have no issue with them as I think something can still be imperfect yet achieve everything it's actually setting out to do perfectly. Perfectly itself, in essence. You and I love old horrors..I'd say a lot of my Hammer and Amicus love falls in there. Perfect films? No -there's no chance of them troubling the legendary Sight And Sound list of lists when it next happens in 2022 - but a film like Frankenstein Created Woman or From Beyond The Grave is EXACTLY what is needs to be and is attempting. So..10/10. BF, for example, one of my all time favourites is Excelis Dawns. People think I'm joking when I describe it as one of my favourite BF titles ever but it's everything I want from it and more. Ditto The Scorchies, or The Time Museum and so many others. There are Big Finish releases that might be "better" but I find them unambitious and middle of the road with no ambition other than to play it safe for 2 hours. That kind of release never gets top marks in my book. We do disagree a bit on Mel though, I like her on TV more than most! To see someone bouncy and fun who actively wants to be there again? What a breath of fresh air! Plus when I was but a bairn I had a Sooty video with Bonnie Langford guesting so she's probably the first Who companion I knew! Yeah I'm good with 10/10 as well. I agree with your definition - complete fulfillment of the premise or remit of the piece coupled with top-flight execution. And while I wouldn't say favourite, Excelis Dawns is a scream, and I can totally see why someone would love it.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 18, 2020 20:42:49 GMT
Just to interject, 10 out of 10 equals perfection. So yes, I chuckle at all the 9/10 or 10/10 or 5/5 reviews that get read out. The problem is saying something is perfect in a critique/review format has always struck me as faulty. When I used to write for the DVD Verdict we used a A thru F ranking system and it drove me nuts. It is why I think Siskel & Ebert became so popular. They didn't us stars or numbers, they went thumbs up or thumbs down after talking about it. I would propose a 4-tiered system. Hated it/Disliked it/Liked it/Loved it. Anyway, this isn't something I've thought about much. Nope. Not at all.
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Post by frisby78 on Feb 18, 2020 21:28:49 GMT
Maybe I'm a simple chap but if I get personal enjoyment and it makes me happy it gets a 5/5 from me.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 18, 2020 22:18:21 GMT
Maybe I'm a simple chap but if I get personal enjoyment and it makes me happy it gets a 5/5 from me. I would argue there is a difference between personal listening and someone listening critically who is writing a review to be published.
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Post by frisby78 on Feb 18, 2020 22:21:51 GMT
Maybe I'm a simple chap but if I get personal enjoyment and it makes me happy it gets a 5/5 from me. I would argue there is a difference between personal listening and someone listening critically who is writing a review to be published. Oh I agree. They would listen for elements I would not think about. However in the other hand, personal enjoyment may sway a critical review.
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Post by OneTen on Feb 19, 2020 13:32:20 GMT
Just to interject, 10 out of 10 equals perfection. If it's a 10-point system, wouldn't 10/10 mean it's in the top-decile, rather than actual perfection? (Or if it's criterion referenced rather than normative, which I guess reviews mostly are, it scores >90%). Of course that's academic in the case of Excelis Dawns since it's impossible to conceive of any improvement
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Post by number13 on Feb 19, 2020 13:49:39 GMT
It's all subjective so as long as you're enjoying most of the audios you buy, that's all that matters I guess? And it's all relative - I can certainly point to audios which are my top favourites, so I'm still sorting and ranking them and can point to a few which stand above the rest, however I might express the rankings, if that makes sense.
I probably enjoyed this story even more because it did surpass my expectations. I was looking forward to it least because Danny Pink - and I enjoyed it most, because Danny Pink! Not for the first time, BF's writers (Mark Morris in this case) have transformed my opinion of a TV character. (For me, Mel is the ultimate example of this. Awful character in S24 imo, excellent in BF right from her first appearance in Pompeii.) We're similiar in this (again!). I enjoy rankings, and analysing them, but I must admit to finding it hard to do myself. My general rule is a bit different. I know Audio dislikes 10/10 scores as that's saying something is perfect wheras I have no issue with them as I think something can still be imperfect yet achieve everything it's actually setting out to do perfectly. Perfectly itself, in essence. You and I love old horrors..I'd say a lot of my Hammer and Amicus love falls in there. Perfect films? No -there's no chance of them troubling the legendary Sight And Sound list of lists when it next happens in 2022 - but a film like Frankenstein Created Woman or From Beyond The Grave is EXACTLY what is needs to be and is attempting. So..10/10. BF, for example, one of my all time favourites is Excelis Dawns. People think I'm joking when I describe it as one of my favourite BF titles ever but it's everything I want from it and more. Ditto The Scorchies, or The Time Museum and so many others. There are Big Finish releases that might be "better" but I find them unambitious and middle of the road with no ambition other than to play it safe for 2 hours. That kind of release never gets top marks in my book. We do disagree a bit on Mel though, I like her on TV more than most! To see someone bouncy and fun who actively wants to be there again? What a breath of fresh air! Plus when I was but a bairn I had a Sooty video with Bonnie Langford guesting so she's probably the first Who companion I knew! Yes, that makes sense - something is 'perfect' in that way if it does exactly what its creator intended. Without wanting to sound pretentious (moi?!) I vaguely think there was a concept of exactly that in ancient Greek philosophy (yes I probably was watching BBC4!) but I can't remember for sure or what the word was they used to describe it. So maybe in modern lingo it could be 'a Ronseal' - something which does what it says on the tin!
I also liked Mel's energy and fun and I remember her being described to us in that way before she appeared in the show - the idea of a very modern 80s Companion - and the aerobics and 'power walking' were certainly very 80s! But they also told us that Mel was a 'young professional', a very intelligent computer programmer with an amazing memory. Great I thought, a Companion for the times (being just a couple of years older and I knew a sort of 'semi-Mel' or two back then, minus the extra-special memory of course!) And she's a good character in the end of the 'Trial' season with Sixie, but I was very disappointed by S24 Mel - all running and SCREAMING!
She wasn't the first clever Companion to suffer in that way but had I been watching 20 years before then I'd have seen Zoe getting some stories where she used her amazing intelligence and logic skills - 'The Krotons' or 'The Invasion'. TV Mel came off worst of all imo and I really disliked it. I wish we could have had stories like 'Spaceport Fear' or 'The High Price of Parking' where there's still danger to run from sometimes (it's Who!) but Mel also gets to show her abilities and drive the story. And no screaming! I roared with laughter at her line in 'The One Doctor' (love that story!) {Spoiler} 'You'll know if I get scared 'cause I'll scream the paint off the walls!'
I can easily imagine Bonnie with Sooty though I never saw it - it's fun how those memories stay with us. I've always been a fan of 'Yes, Minister' and the three wonderful leads, but for me 'Bernard' was also very much 'Mr. Derek' because that's how I first saw him, as Basil Brush's chum on fun Saturday evenings along with 'Doctor Who' in the Pertwee years.
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ljwilson
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It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Feb 19, 2020 14:24:10 GMT
the**********.com has the best approach, giving the ratings a 1 to 100 spread (like a 6.2).
Unless you are someone called Spacefritter who seems to give all stories a 10 out of 10, with reviews like 'quite and interesting story but loses it's way a bit in part 3...'. But sod it, 10 out of 10 anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 18:02:39 GMT
Just to interject, 10 out of 10 equals perfection. If it's a 10-point system, wouldn't 10/10 mean it's in the top-decile, rather than actual perfection? (Or if it's criterion referenced rather than normative, which I guess reviews mostly are, it scores >90%). Of course that's academic in the case of Excelis Dawns since it's impossible to conceive of any improvement It's why I've given 5/5s this year - they've been.....90%ish kinda episodes so 4/5, 80%, seems too harsh. I don't think there's much to be gleamed from ratings on our small scale but I do enjoy them on larger scales - lists compiled by Sight & Sound or Doctor Who Magazine etc. On our kind of level, with only a few dozen regulars, what they're saying is more substantive than what they'd rate it as. It's one reason I do try and post somewhat in depth thoughts where possible.
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Post by polly on Feb 19, 2020 19:08:24 GMT
If you ask me if you're not going to use the entire ratings scale, then it needs to be overhauled. I hated when game magazines and websites would use 7/10 for "Okay" and everything 6 or less being mediocre to bad. That's not how a 10-point scale works. 6 should be slightly above average, not "meh." Conversely, I don't care for the Rotten Tomatoes binary system either because liked/disliked doesn't allow for degrees.
Me, I think something like: Awful > Subpar > Average/OK > Good > Excellent will cover most eventualities.
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ljwilson
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It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Feb 19, 2020 19:25:31 GMT
If you ask me if you're not going to use the entire ratings scale, then it needs to be overhauled. I hated when game magazines and websites would use 7/10 for "Okay" and everything 6 or less being mediocre to bad. That's not how a 10-point scale works. 6 should be slightly above average, not "meh." Conversely, I don't care for the Rotten Tomatoes binary system either because liked/disliked doesn't allow for degrees. Me, I think something like: Awful > Subpar > Average/OK > Good > Excellent will cover most eventualities. I'm with you there Polly! A 6 is good because it is over half way up the scale. 5 is average and a 4 is generally crap.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 19:59:56 GMT
the**********.com has the best approach, giving the ratings a 1 to 100 spread (like a 6.2). Unless you are someone called Spacefritter who seems to give all stories a 10 out of 10, with reviews like 'quite and interesting story but loses it's way a bit in part 3...'. But sod it, 10 out of 10 anyway. I think such ratings help offset/balance out those who give low ratings such as 1's or 2's just because they can, or as has been raised before by the site owner/administrator, because they have a 'thing' about a certain writer or two. Anyhow, being Audio, what is clearly needed is for all ratings to go up to 11. One louder, you may say. For added impact.
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ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
Likes: 5,063
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Post by ljwilson on Feb 19, 2020 20:27:49 GMT
the**********.com has the best approach, giving the ratings a 1 to 100 spread (like a 6.2). Unless you are someone called Spacefritter who seems to give all stories a 10 out of 10, with reviews like 'quite and interesting story but loses it's way a bit in part 3...'. But sod it, 10 out of 10 anyway. I think such ratings help offset/balance out those who give low ratings such as 1's or 2's just because they can, or as has been raised before by the site owner/administrator, because they have a 'thing' about a certain writer or two. Anyhow, being Audio, what is clearly needed is for all ratings to go up to 11. One louder, you may say. For added impact. A good point daver. I feel the urge to listen to an obscure 60s track that goes 'gimme some mon-ay!'
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 22:39:23 GMT
A 6 is good because it is over half way up the scale. 5 is average and a 4 is generally crap. For me, on a ten mark scale 5 is average because it's half way, 4 is then below average and 6 is above average... crap would actually be a 1 !!! (And I've only ever given three Big Finish audios a rating of 1 on The **** ****** ratings website, from twenty years of Big Finish audios.) However, individual ratings are subjective and it's only when you get a larger pool of ratings as Davy mentioned that you can get an overall feel of a story's merit, which I do find is interesting ... but that still doesn't mean much at the end of the day if you dislike a story and everyone else gives it 10/10!
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Post by coffeeaddict on Feb 19, 2020 23:42:17 GMT
It's all subjective so as long as you're enjoying most of the audios you buy, that's all that matters I guess? And it's all relative - I can certainly point to audios which are my top favourites, so I'm still sorting and ranking them and can point to a few which stand above the rest, however I might express the rankings, if that makes sense. I probably enjoyed this story even more because it did surpass my expectations. I was looking forward to it least because Danny Pink - and I enjoyed it most, because Danny Pink! Not for the first time, BF's writers (Mark Morris in this case) have transformed my opinion of a TV character. (For me, Mel is the ultimate example of this. Awful character in S24 imo, excellent in BF right from her first appearance in Pompeii.) To be fair, I definitely don't have any expectations for a Danny episode, so I'm hopefully going to be just as pleasantly surprised as you were I haven't even made it through the first episode and I started it Monday - admittedly I was too busy to pay much attention to it, but when I was tuned in, I found Dudman's attempt at 12 so bad I would turn it off.
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Post by Whovitt on Feb 20, 2020 2:28:37 GMT
To be fair, I definitely don't have any expectations for a Danny episode, so I'm hopefully going to be just as pleasantly surprised as you were I haven't even made it through the first episode and I started it Monday - admittedly I was too busy to pay much attention to it, but when I was tuned in, I found Dudman's attempt at 12 so bad I would turn it off. Dudman is putting on a good voice, I will give him that. It just isn't the voice of Peter Capaldi. It's about 50% of the way there, but after his amazing 10 and 11 impressions this one just isn't up to scratch.
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