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Post by tuigirl on Jul 9, 2020 17:29:18 GMT
I just wanted to say WTF? is this and move on and not consider myself particularly excited... Then I realized this is supposed to be the Main Range. And I have subscribed. . Oookayyy then.... Edit: I see we also get one story by Mr. Dorney. So how bad could it be? We will find out. I just had hoped for something else than a shouty Dalek anthology for the end of the main range....
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 9, 2020 17:47:42 GMT
I think I've got Time War fatigue!
That's fine though. It's clearly a big seller, and BF are certainly making the most of it. It just means I've got more cash to spend on other things. That 'Masterful' set is looking very tempting ...
Ive just seen the news story. "... with a small “rep company” of brilliant actors including Nicholas Briggs ..."
Right then.
What’s wrong with nick Briggs acting? Seems a bit harsh I've not been overly impressed by anything I've heard him in, Sherlock Holmes, Frankenstein for example. He has his talents but acting is not one of them, he sounds more like an Am-Dram actor.
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Post by project37 on Jul 9, 2020 18:57:07 GMT
The covers are certainly amazing and I like the format of eight shorter stories, but the idea of the Fifth Doctor in the Time War isn't particularly appealing. Hopefully it's a hit, though. Speaking for myself, I can wait on reviews and an inevitable sale. Plenty of other stuff to enjoy in the meantime.
Holding out hope for some Out of Time news soon.
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Post by stcoop on Jul 9, 2020 19:06:05 GMT
Whatever they need to do to pay the bills I suppose, but they're really running it into the ground at this point.
And how many memory wipes are we up to now to keep the Doctor from remembering his future?
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Post by polly on Jul 9, 2020 20:22:54 GMT
Hm. Well. I'm not sure what to make of this one. On the one hand, if the Time War was truly as destructive and all-encompassing as it was made out to be during the RTD days, I'm not opposed to earlier Doctors getting the occasional hint that something bad was coming at the other end of his time stream.
I just don't want it to be out-and-out Time War material that has to be explained away as the Doctor forgot, or he just didn't tell anyone.
Overall, I am in the camp who believes that actually showing the Time War was a mistake and it undercut the mystique and incomprehensible nature of such a conflict. If you must show it, it should be cosmic horror and collapsing reality, not Dalek shoot em ups. They had an evocative mystery and they've killed it with answers.
But that genie is well and truly out of the bottle, never to return.
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Post by grinch on Jul 9, 2020 20:27:03 GMT
Hm. Well. I'm not sure what to make of this one. On the one hand, if the Time War was truly as destructive and all-encompassing as it was made out to be during the RTD days, I'm not opposed to earlier Doctors getting the occasional hint that something bad was coming at the other end of his time stream. I just don't want it to be out-and-out Time War material that has to be explained away as the Doctor forgot, or he just didn't tell anyone. Overall, I am in the camp who believes that actually showing the Time War was a mistake and it undercut the mystique and incomprehensible nature of such a conflict. If you must show it, it should be cosmic horror and not Dalek shoot em ups. They had an evocative mystery and they've killed it with answers. But that genie is well and truly out of the bottle, never to return. As much as I’ve accepted what Big Finish have done with the Time War (even if I don’t always agree with it) a part of me agreed with you and thinks it was far too big in scope to ever capture fully or satisfactorily. Sometimes it does just come across like it’s the Great War or the Second World War. But in space. And with murderous cyborgs. I rather liked the idea they suggested in one of the Companion Chronicles that effects from the Time War would reverberate throughout the Doctor’s timeline. Hence the Player making an appearance alongside the First Doctor but they have yet to follow up on that idea unfortunately.
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Post by polly on Jul 9, 2020 20:31:01 GMT
As much as I’ve accepted what Big Finish have done with the Time War (even if I don’t always agree with it) a part of me agreed with you and thinks it was far too big in scope to ever capture fully or satisfactorily. Sometimes it does just come across like it’s the Great War or the Second World War. But in space. And with murderous cyborgs. I rather liked the idea they suggested in one of the Companion Chronicles that effects from the Time War would reverberate throughout the Doctor’s timeline. Hence the Player making an appearance alongside the First Doctor but they have yet to follow up on that idea unfortunately. Well, that's the thing. A Time War would by its very nature have to be unfathomable, so you can't really play it like Space WWII as you say. I don't recall the Player, but I do seem to remember one of the CC box sets had Time War Daleks monitoring the First Doctor throughout, or something to that effect. That sort of hint/small crossover I can readily accept.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 9, 2020 20:35:04 GMT
As much as I’ve accepted what Big Finish have done with the Time War (even if I don’t always agree with it) a part of me agreed with you and thinks it was far too big in scope to ever capture fully or satisfactorily. Sometimes it does just come across like it’s the Great War or the Second World War. But in space. And with murderous cyborgs. I rather liked the idea they suggested in one of the Companion Chronicles that effects from the Time War would reverberate throughout the Doctor’s timeline. Hence the Player making an appearance alongside the First Doctor but they have yet to follow up on that idea unfortunately. Well, that's the thing. A Time War would by its very nature have to be unfathomable, so you can't really play it like Space WWII as you say. I don't recall the Player, but I do seem to remember one of the CC box sets had Time War Daleks monitoring the First Doctor throughout, or something to that effect. That sort of hint/small crossover I can readily accept. Yeah, the Player was in the last story of that Boxset. He went back to sort out the damage caused by the Daleks.
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Post by grinch on Jul 9, 2020 20:38:12 GMT
Well, that's the thing. A Time War would by its very nature have to be unfathomable, so you can't really play it like Space WWII as you say. I don't recall the Player, but I do seem to remember one of the CC box sets had Time War Daleks monitoring the First Doctor throughout, or something to that effect. That sort of hint/small crossover I can readily accept. Yeah, the Player was in the last story of that Boxset. He went back to sort out the damage caused by the Daleks. Thank you. Thought I’d remembered that correctly. Also allegedly became a villain at some point if the mention from Dark Universe is anything to go by. Honestly wouldn’t surprise me at this point now that I think about it if the Second Doctor ended up becoming involved, albeit perhaps tangentially in the Time War, if they are really doing Series 6B stories. Which to be honest I’m still not a fan of the idea but that’s just my opinion.
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Post by antartiks on Jul 9, 2020 20:42:55 GMT
Hm. Well. I'm not sure what to make of this one. On the one hand, if the Time War was truly as destructive and all-encompassing as it was made out to be during the RTD days, I'm not opposed to earlier Doctors getting the occasional hint that something bad was coming at the other end of his time stream. I just don't want it to be out-and-out Time War material that has to be explained away as the Doctor forgot, or he just didn't tell anyone. Overall, I am in the camp who believes that actually showing the Time War was a mistake and it undercut the mystique and incomprehensible nature of such a conflict. If you must show it, it should be cosmic horror and not Dalek shoot em ups. They had an evocative mystery and they've killed it with answers. But that genie is well and truly out of the bottle, never to return. As much as I’ve accepted what Big Finish have done with the Time War (even if I don’t always agree with it) a part of me agreed with you and thinks it was far too big in scope to ever capture fully or satisfactorily. Sometimes it does just come across like it’s the Great War or the Second World War. But in space. And with murderous cyborgs. I rather liked the idea they suggested in one of the Companion Chronicles that effects from the Time War would reverberate throughout the Doctor’s timeline. Hence the Player making an appearance alongside the First Doctor but they have yet to follow up on that idea unfortunately. I agree with you concerning the notion that too many TW stories sound like the Great War. I'm not fan of The Conscript from the first Eighth Doctor volume because I don't like the idea that Time Lords are similar to human soldiers. The best episodes are the ones which deal with the concept of Time or with some other alien planet's perspective. The Neverwhen, The Master of Callous or The Sky Man feel much more personal and interesting in my opinion.
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Post by grinch on Jul 9, 2020 20:53:07 GMT
As much as I’ve accepted what Big Finish have done with the Time War (even if I don’t always agree with it) a part of me agreed with you and thinks it was far too big in scope to ever capture fully or satisfactorily. Sometimes it does just come across like it’s the Great War or the Second World War. But in space. And with murderous cyborgs. I rather liked the idea they suggested in one of the Companion Chronicles that effects from the Time War would reverberate throughout the Doctor’s timeline. Hence the Player making an appearance alongside the First Doctor but they have yet to follow up on that idea unfortunately. I agree with you concerning the notion that too many TW stories sound like the Great War. I'm not fan of The Conscript from the first Eighth Doctor volume because I don't like the idea that Time Lords are similar to human soldiers. The best episodes are the ones which deal with the concept of Time or with some other alien planet's perspective. The Neverwhen, The Master of Callous or The Sky Man feel much more personal and interesting in my opinion. That’s the one I was thinking of to be honest. Wouldn’t have been so jarring had it been say human soldiers from Earth’s past that had been conscripted to fight in the Time War but the sufficiently more advanced and alien Time Lords running WWII style boot camps? Just doesn’t work. Exactly. I’d love to see a series of Short Trips or some other releases which focused on characters outside of the Doctor and Gallifreyans and examine their perspective on the Time War. Could have one be focused on one of the higher races who is able to bear witness to the full devestation the war is creating on the universe or an ordinary human who suddenly begins to realise there are suddenly a great many contradictions around him. Missing days, people suddenly changing (“Could have sworn that the name of the diner was Bel’s not Mel’s...”) etc. Imagine something akin to Alan Bennett’s Talking Heads series as an example. It’s why the War Master range is one of my favourite TW related releases. Goes to show how desperate things have become that the Time Lords effectively have to make use of one their most dangerous number. Like having a vicious dog on a rather long leash as I heard someone once use as an excellent comparison.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 20:59:10 GMT
I'm enjoying reading this discussion, but was getting confused as to why The War Master and The Eighth Doctor etc were getting involved with Torchwood. Then I realised the initials TW also stand for Time War!
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Post by polly on Jul 9, 2020 21:01:44 GMT
Yeah, the Player was in the last story of that Boxset. He went back to sort out the damage caused by the Daleks. Thank you. Thought I’d remembered that correctly. Also allegedly became a villain at some point if the mention from Dark Universe is anything to go by. Honestly wouldn’t surprise me at this point now that I think about it if the Second Doctor ended up becoming involved, albeit perhaps tangentially in the Time War, if they are really doing Series 6B stories. Which to be honest I’m still not a fan of the idea but that’s just my opinion. Ohhhhh right. Thank you. It's been a couple years. As for 6B...no thanks. War Games is a great ending, leave it alone.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 21:16:57 GMT
“So what we have in Shadow of the Daleks Parts 1 and 2 are eight half-hour stories, in which the Doctor lands in different times, different places... and keeps meeting the same faces, but as different people. The mystery is heightened by the oblique appearances of Daleks..." I may well be in the minority here going on comments on the forum tonight but I'm rather intrigued by the idea of Shadow of the Daleks. Granted we have had a fair few stories based at the heart of the war in recent years, but David Richardson's words above suggest (at least to me) that this time the war might play an indirect part, perhaps with the Fifth Doctor dealing with the consequences of the..'ripples'.. in the fabric of the universe as a result of the conflict at it's heart. Perhaps this time the war will remain (for now) an unknown mystery to the Time Lord rather than necessitating the need for another bout of amnesia or a memory wipe. Certainly eight bite sized chunks of storytelling spread across two audios over two months rather than sixteen hours of storytelling spread across four boxsets over several months is a bonus. Hmmm..think I've just talked myself into buying both. First time for everything I guess. Just a question of when..
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Post by xlozdob on Jul 9, 2020 21:35:10 GMT
“So what we have in Shadow of the Daleks Parts 1 and 2 are eight half-hour stories, in which the Doctor lands in different times, different places... and keeps meeting the same faces, but as different people. The mystery is heightened by the oblique appearances of Daleks..." I may well be in the minority here going on comments on the forum tonight but I'm rather intrigued by the idea of Shadow of the Daleks. Granted we have had a fair few stories based at the heart of the war in recent years, but David Richardson's words above suggest (at least to me) that this time the war might play an indirect part, perhaps with the Fifth Doctor dealing with the consequences of the..'ripples'.. in the fabric of the universe as a result of the conflict at it's heart. Perhaps this time the war will remain (for now) an unknown mystery to the Time Lord rather than necessitating the need for another bout of amnesia or a memory wipe. Certainly eight bite sized chunks of storytelling spread across two audios over two months rather than sixteen hours of storytelling spread across four boxsets over several months is a bonus. Hmmm..think I've just talked myself into buying both. First time for everything I guess. Just a question of when.. Yeah... all the "criticism" seems to come from assumptions that go against what they've told us about these releases. Neither the Daleks nor the Time War are supposed to play a big part; maybe they're behind, but their actual presence is tangential (first and last story, it seems). I'm not a big fan of Five, the Daleks, or the general feel of no overarcing plan with the Time War releases, but this seems to be a sidestep from how all of those are normally handled, and a great way to make the most of what they have, with an amazing lineup of writers (most of the stories sound good too). MR releases rarely interest me but this one definitely caught my attention.
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Post by number13 on Jul 9, 2020 22:02:28 GMT
“So what we have in Shadow of the Daleks Parts 1 and 2 are eight half-hour stories, in which the Doctor lands in different times, different places... and keeps meeting the same faces, but as different people. The mystery is heightened by the oblique appearances of Daleks..." I may well be in the minority here going on comments on the forum tonight but I'm rather intrigued by the idea of Shadow of the Daleks. Granted we have had a fair few stories based at the heart of the war in recent years, but David Richardson's words above suggest (at least to me) that this time the war might play an indirect part, perhaps with the Fifth Doctor dealing with the consequences of the..'ripples'.. in the fabric of the universe as a result of the conflict at it's heart. Perhaps this time the war will remain (for now) an unknown mystery to the Time Lord rather than necessitating the need for another bout of amnesia or a memory wipe. Certainly eight bite sized chunks of storytelling spread across two audios over two months rather than sixteen hours of storytelling spread across four boxsets over several months is a bonus. Hmmm..think I've just talked myself into buying both. First time for everything I guess. Just a question of when.. I also like the sound of this very much. I like the idea that they are sort of channelling the Hartnell era a bit in structure (not for the first time, we had the cracking series 8 of the 4DAs) and it's an eight-parter with individual episode names (now that's real B&W era!) and Daleks out there, but not always 'there'. Stories which could go anywhere, do anything, but part of a whole.
(Will it be BF's "'The Chase' meets the more off-the-wall bits of 'The Dalek Masterplan'"? I demand a Mire Beast! )
And it's a good inventive response by BF to the practical necessities of current times. WIth great writers!
My (nearly final) MR Sub has been going through a very rare rocky patch; of the last six releases I loved one, liked two, didn't like two - and one went AWOL! But now, 'Ghost Station' is an excellent taster of 'Time Apart', then we have Hex back and now these, all sounds very promising indeed.
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Post by antartiks on Jul 9, 2020 22:28:32 GMT
I agree with you concerning the notion that too many TW stories sound like the Great War. I'm not fan of The Conscript from the first Eighth Doctor volume because I don't like the idea that Time Lords are similar to human soldiers. The best episodes are the ones which deal with the concept of Time or with some other alien planet's perspective. The Neverwhen, The Master of Callous or The Sky Man feel much more personal and interesting in my opinion. That’s the one I was thinking of to be honest. Wouldn’t have been so jarring had it been say human soldiers from Earth’s past that had been conscripted to fight in the Time War but the sufficiently more advanced and alien Time Lords running WWII style boot camps? Just doesn’t work. Exactly. I’d love to see a series of Short Trips or some other releases which focused on characters outside of the Doctor and Gallifreyans and examine their perspective on the Time War. Could have one be focused on one of the higher races who is able to bear witness to the full devestation the war is creating on the universe or an ordinary human who suddenly begins to realise there are suddenly a great many contradictions around him. Missing days, people suddenly changing (“Could have sworn that the name of the diner was Bel’s not Mel’s...”) etc. Imagine something akin to Alan Bennett’s Talking Heads series as an example. It’s why the War Master range is one of my favourite TW related releases. Goes to show how desperate things have become that the Time Lords effectively have to make use of one their most dangerous number. Like having a vicious dog on a rather long leash as I heard someone once use as an excellent comparison. Yes, I agree with everything you said. That's also the reason why I love the War Master so much. We know he doesn't shy away from toying with the universe and that's why I love Anti-Genesis in particular. It could almost be seen as a "what if the War Master won ?" I think BF once described him as the Hannibal Lecter of the Master incarnations and that sums him up perfectly. As far as we know, every Master is evil. But Jacobi takes it to a whole other level. When he pops up, you know everyone around him is about to die by his hand eventually. He's the perfect incarnation for the Time War and his range is currently one of BF's best ranges, period. The Time Lords have become desperate and I find it very amusing how it bites them in the ass in the end because they have to rely upon someone who thrives in such a devastating context.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 22:42:16 GMT
Certainly eight bite sized chunks of storytelling spread across two audios over two months rather than sixteen hours of storytelling spread across four boxsets over several months is a bonus. 100% this!
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Post by Jeedai on Jul 10, 2020 4:18:11 GMT
I'm finding this Fifth Doctor Time War 'serial' pretty interesting. I'll probably be picking it up.
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Post by pawntake on Jul 10, 2020 8:23:28 GMT
Certainly eight bite sized chunks of storytelling spread across two audios over two months rather than sixteen hours of storytelling spread across four boxsets over several months is a bonus. 100% this! Lets hope this is a glimpse of the re-launch!!Or one aspect of it anyway!! 2
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