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Post by antartiks on May 14, 2021 15:38:46 GMT
Shame it had to be the 50th episode of the Main Range, with Tennant as a guest. I was really looking forward to this release. Here's to hoping it'll come out someday.
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Post by muddyviolet on May 14, 2021 15:41:15 GMT
Yep The Release has vanished off the site completely even entering it into the search bar is nothing Even trying to enter its page www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/torchwood-absent-friends-2404 gives you nothing, considering what's happened with John Barrowman its probably appropriate but, its a shame that it'll never be released.
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Post by theillusiveman on May 14, 2021 16:07:59 GMT
Well i found it on my order page- the thumbnail had been removed so i didnt notice it so thankfully its still there but yeah just scary that they would do this without warning before hand
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on May 14, 2021 17:22:33 GMT
The Barrowman release being pulled is now on BBC news website
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2021 17:38:40 GMT
Unless there are new John Barrowman stories that we don't know about this does seem a bit like cancel culture gone mad. Barrowman was stupid and immature to wave his willy around for a bit of a laugh but it's not like he abused his power to bully and abuse anyone or prey on them etc.. (That we know of.) I also thought that John Barrowman had apologised for that silly behaviour many years ago, so those allegations are not a secret. I know nobody at Big Finish and the BBC would want to take a risk with John Barrowman at this moment in time, but unless there are more nasty stories to come out I don't think this release should be cancelled on the basis of those old stories that even John Barrowman knows were silly and he's apologised for. People are allowed to make mistakes.
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Post by anothermanicmondas on May 14, 2021 17:39:31 GMT
mentioned in the week's news updates on BF site "◉ TORCHWOOD MONTHLY RANGE UPDATE | Big Finish has taken the decision to remove Torchwood: Absent Friends from the Monthly Range release schedule and has no plans to publish this title at this time.
Please note: all bundle pre-orders for the Torchwood Monthly Range stories 49-54 or 49-60 will feature an alternative title in its place.
Listeners who have pre-ordered this title as an individual purchase and would like to request a refund can do so by contacting the Sales team via bigfinish.com/contact. We thank you in advance for your patience as our Sales team processes your request. Refunds may take a number hours to complete but will be honoured. "
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 14, 2021 17:50:02 GMT
Unless there are new John Barrowman stories that we don't know about this does seem a bit like cancel culture gone mad. Barrowman was stupid and immature to wave his willy around for a bit of a laugh but it's not like he abused his power to bully and abuse anyone or prey on them etc.. (That we know of.) I also thought that John Barrowman had apologised for that silly behaviour many years ago, so those allegations are not a secret. I know nobody at Big Finish and the BBC would want to take a risk with John Barrowman at this moment in time, but unless there are more nasty stories to come out I don't think this release should be cancelled on the basis of those old stories that even John Barrowman knows were silly and he's apologised for. People are allowed to make mistakes.
In the other thread more specifically about him there's evidence that after he apologised he carried on with his behaviour.
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Post by BHTvsTFC on May 14, 2021 18:00:51 GMT
Unless there are new John Barrowman stories that we don't know about this does seem a bit like cancel culture gone mad.
I am inclined to agree with this. I've always had a personal dislike for John Barrowman; I find him egotistical, self superior and unpleasant to watch. But people make mistakes, and I wouldn't want to see anyone f*cked over for something relatively minor that has been previously addressed and dealt with. I have wondered before and even created a thread on here about the consequences of cancel culture and what happens next - is there room for forgiveness and can people move on. Of course if there is more to this case than we already know about then the decision could be more justifiable we will have to wait and see with that one. I have listened to many of the non-Barrowman Torchwood releases and have enjoyed them, but the thing I'm starting to think about is what will happen to all the previous releases starring him? I notice you can still order Dalek Empire 4 or The Ninth Doctor Chronicles starring Noel Clarke and Bruno Langley respectively. Likewise, scandal didn't prevent James Dreyfuss' stories being released and on schedule, and remaining on sale. I didn't know anything about Tracy Ann Oberman being transphobic either; one of the issues with cancel culture is people can be selective in who they like to cancel. With Absent Friends I'm sure the only losers will sadly be Big Finish who at the time hired the actor in good faith. Barrowman's attitude was known at the time, and he had gone on record apologising for it in the past. He will have been paid for his performance and, unless he gets royalties, won't benefit one way or another if the story is released. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
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Post by ollychops on May 14, 2021 18:12:23 GMT
Shame but understandable given the circumstances. Hopefully it will see a release at some point though. The email sounds like it's not coming out for a while, if ever. Yeah, they leave it vague enough so that they could release it in the future if they choose to.
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Post by Star Platinum on May 14, 2021 18:20:33 GMT
Unless there are new John Barrowman stories that we don't know about this does seem a bit like cancel culture gone mad.
I am inclined to agree with this. I've always had a personal dislike for John Barrowman; I find him egotistical, self superior and unpleasant to watch. But people make mistakes, and I wouldn't want to see anyone f*cked over for something relatively minor that has been previously addressed and dealt with. I have wondered before and even created a thread on here about the consequences of cancel culture and what happens next - is there room for forgiveness and can people move on. Of course if there is more to this case than we already know about then the decision could be more justifiable we will have to wait and see with that one. I have listened to many of the non-Barrowman Torchwood releases and have enjoyed them, but the thing I'm starting to think about is what will happen to all the previous releases starring him? I notice you can still order Dalek Empire 4 or The Ninth Doctor Chronicles starring Noel Clarke and Bruno Langley respectively. Likewise, scandal didn't prevent James Dreyfuss' stories being released and on schedule, and remaining on sale. I didn't know anything about Tracy Ann Oberman being transphobic either; one of the issues with cancel culture is people can be selective in who they like to cancel. With Absent Friends I'm sure the only losers will sadly be Big Finish who at the time hired the actor in good faith. Barrowman's attitude was known at the time, and he had gone on record apologising for it in the past. He will have been paid for his performance and, unless he gets royalties, won't benefit one way or another if the story is released. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. There’s a few minor differences between the Dreyfus & Clarke scandals and their releases and this one. Psychic Circus was released months after the Dreyfus scandal hit, during that period between scandal and release. During that time it seems like BF actively avoided marketing that story. DE 4 was released almost 16 or so years ago, frankly I doubt it’s moving many copies any more. As for Barrowman, absent friends would have dropped right in the middle of this scandal, and BF has been marketing it a fair bit these last few months. Hell, I’d argue that it was this years Tent pole release for Torchwood. If this had been say December’s release, I think we’d have seen a quiet release, if anything. I’m not surprised the release has been cancelled, but I can understand it. We’ll see where the court of public opinion takes us, but I think we’ll get this release at some point. As for Barrowman’s future at BF, I don’t expect any releases for a while, but long term? No idea. I just hope he doesn’t sink the entire Torchwood brand.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 14, 2021 18:29:34 GMT
I am inclined to agree with this. I've always had a personal dislike for John Barrowman; I find him egotistical, self superior and unpleasant to watch. But people make mistakes, and I wouldn't want to see anyone f*cked over for something relatively minor that has been previously addressed and dealt with. I have wondered before and even created a thread on here about the consequences of cancel culture and what happens next - is there room for forgiveness and can people move on. Of course if there is more to this case than we already know about then the decision could be more justifiable we will have to wait and see with that one. I have listened to many of the non-Barrowman Torchwood releases and have enjoyed them, but the thing I'm starting to think about is what will happen to all the previous releases starring him? I notice you can still order Dalek Empire 4 or The Ninth Doctor Chronicles starring Noel Clarke and Bruno Langley respectively. Likewise, scandal didn't prevent James Dreyfuss' stories being released and on schedule, and remaining on sale. I didn't know anything about Tracy Ann Oberman being transphobic either; one of the issues with cancel culture is people can be selective in who they like to cancel. With Absent Friends I'm sure the only losers will sadly be Big Finish who at the time hired the actor in good faith. Barrowman's attitude was known at the time, and he had gone on record apologising for it in the past. He will have been paid for his performance and, unless he gets royalties, won't benefit one way or another if the story is released. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. There’s a few minor differences between the Dreyfus & Clarke scandals and their releases and this one. Psychic Circus was released months after the Dreyfus scandal hit, during that period between scandal and release. During that time it seems like BF actively avoided marketing that story. DE 4 was released almost 16 or so years ago, frankly I doubt it’s moving many copies any more. As for Barrowman, absent friends would have dropped right in the middle of this scandal, and BF has been marketing it a fair bit these last few months. Hell, I’d argue that it was this years Tent pole release for Torchwood. If this had been say December’s release, I think we’d have seen a quiet release, if anything. I’m not surprised the release has been cancelled, but I can understand it. We’ll see where the court of public opinion takes us, but I think we’ll get this release at some point. As for Barrowman’s future at BF, I don’t expect any releases for a while, but long term? No idea. I just hope he doesn’t sink the entire Torchwood brand. It was Barrowman's repeated 'tent pole release' which got him & BF into this mess!
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Post by shallacatop on May 14, 2021 18:34:26 GMT
I am surprised that the release has been pulled completely, with the indication there’s no plans to release it at all. Of course, they have left it open to release at some point in the future, but going down the refund route does show it’s likely to be some lost story.
With it having involvement from the Doctor and being specifically written so a Doctor Who / Tenth Doctor fan can consume without the baggage / adult nature of Torchwood, I can absolutely see why they’d knock the release on the head. The BBC has to protect its family brand, particularly when one of, if not the, biggest Doctor is the star of the show. And I think that matters to them much more than having it out there.
Would be interesting to see if the Doctor dialogue can be repurposed anywhere. Obviously not in its entirety, but maybe clips for cameos and whatnot.
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Post by tuigirl on May 14, 2021 18:51:50 GMT
Hmmm. Shame. I repeat myself, but I still do not think Barrowman is malicious. I agree that he should get his bottom kicked, but I am not sure throwing him under a bus is the way to go. Actually, I find this slightly scary.
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Post by ryan on May 14, 2021 19:02:26 GMT
No more purchases from Big Finish from me, at least until Absent Friends is released.
From what I can see, John Barrowman apologised for his behaviour and has addressed it ever since.
As much as I hugely respect the creative team at Big Finish, I can't justify giving my money to a company that throws one of its actors under the bus for incidents that they were most likely already aware of and aren't even being formally investigated.
Leaving the press to announce the news shows cowardice and a blatant disrespect for their customers too.
So long for now, Big Finish. It was fun while it lasted.
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Post by stcoop on May 14, 2021 19:06:05 GMT
Hmmm. Shame. I repeat myself, but I still do not think Barrowman is malicious. I agree that he should get his bottom kicked, but I am not sure throwing him under a bus is the way to go. Actually, I find this slightly scary. We're not talking about a teenager who makes a bad decision that comes back to haunt them later in life, he was in his late 30s when he started on the shows. Plus we also know that the behaviour carried on years past the point we were told it had stopped.
And as we know from many of the #metoo stories (and I acknowledge this is not the same thing) there's many reasons why people can be reluctant to come forward and complain about upsetting and inappropriate behaviour, so silence does not equal approval.
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Post by masterdoctor on May 14, 2021 19:08:56 GMT
Disappointed for sure, but considering that Barrowman didn't stop when he was formally reprimanded and it has continued, I see no reason to really defend him, and support Big Finish's move, even if it has been communicated as well as it should be.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2021 19:23:47 GMT
I think that the losers here are those of us who were prepared to put in the past and move on. Those most unforgiving had long ago chosen to boycott him. I suspect that his cancellation was not owing to feared loss of sales but the vociferous nature of those who weren't fans of his anyway. Barrowman is hopefully better off financially than most of us and can still find work in a post watershed entertainment world for the time being, but it seems that many fans have not been given the chance to vote with their wallets. I have said it before, I personally like him and do not believe him ill natured towards others, just 'larger than life' (no sniggering at the back there). It seems beyond most of us to think of contemplating such antics but I do get the impression that actors letting off steam behind the scenes have traditionally messed around, sometimes overstepping or misjudging their company. Perhaps he harks to a past where a Gay man in shared sex dressing rooms could prank the ladies in an un-sexual manner. He did after all make his name in the West End shows. Anyhow - it won't put me off watching/listening to Captain Jack - I can make the separation in this instance, unlike the ilk of Noel Clarke et al. I really do not see them as being equivalent. No need for Christopher Plummer (well its a bit late now actually) to re-record his scenes.... I read this last night - a strangely timely posting from the notorious diaries of Kenneth Williams. I knew of a colleague who binned his copy after reading as he was so disappointed to learn of the ugly character behind the on-screen personality:
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Post by tuigirl on May 14, 2021 19:43:59 GMT
No more purchases from Big Finish from me, at least until Absent Friends is released. From what I can see, John Barrowman apologised for his behaviour and has addressed it ever since. As much as I hugely respect the creative team at Big Finish, I can't justify giving my money to a company that throws one of its actors under the bus for incidents that they were most likely already aware of and aren't even being formally investigated. Leaving the press to announce the news shows cowardice and a blatant disrespect for their customers too. So long for now, Big Finish. It was fun while it lasted. Hmm... I do get where you are coming from... however, that reaction is a bit extreme. It would punish also all the other good people working for BF. And I am sure that one of the main reasons the release was pulled was the BBC covering their bottoms. So BF do not carry most of the fault.
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Post by ollychops on May 14, 2021 19:46:04 GMT
Going by the wording, I'm not convinced that the release is being dropped completely. I think they've left it intentionally vague to see how things go and what Barrowman chooses to do in the aftermath of this. If it does end up being dropped completely, ignoring the fact that we'll be losing out on a Ten/Jack story, it's a shame for all the other people involved who put a lot of hard work into this release only for it to be cancelled because of one person's actions.
Also, I'm surprised how much negativity to the announcement I've seen... I thought I'd see more people praising BF for this, but people on Twitter seem to be pretty mad about it...
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Post by tuigirl on May 14, 2021 19:51:48 GMT
Hmmm. Shame. I repeat myself, but I still do not think Barrowman is malicious. I agree that he should get his bottom kicked, but I am not sure throwing him under a bus is the way to go. Actually, I find this slightly scary. We're not talking about a teenager who makes a bad decision that comes back to haunt them later in life, he was in his late 30s when he started on the shows. Plus we also know that the behaviour carried on years past the point we were told it had stopped.
And as we know from many of the #metoo stories (and I acknowledge this is not the same thing) there's many reasons why people can be reluctant to come forward and complain about upsetting and inappropriate behaviour, so silence does not equal approval.
What shocks me most is the moral dissonance I am experiencing right now. I personally, in my own little fandom bubble.
The story is also quite big in my German fan circles. Shock, horror.
At the same time, we have a whole bunch of famous German actors, some of whom I am/ was (undecided as of yet) a fan of and who I admire... and they published some nasty videos condemning the COVID measures of the government and making fun of the health services. These actors actively cause grief and harm and discord in the population and might even cause deaths because they empower the anti COVID protesters.
And somehow, Barrowman, who is just an idiot with a d*ck obsession, is seen as somehow WORSE?
I am sorry, but I cannot compute this. At all.
I am confused and not really sure who I should follow or hate anymore.
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