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Post by sailorhaumea on Apr 12, 2017 3:30:29 GMT
Here's another tricky question.
I tend to say that this is the order that the stuff for the Master goes in between Survival and the TV movie:
Survival
Stop the Pigeon
Prime Time
First Frontier - The Master regenerates
Housewarming
Happy Endings - afterwards, the Master regresses back to Ainley
Omegamorphosis
Dust Breeding
Master - afterwards, Death restores the Master's Trakenite body
Prisoners of Time
The Eight Doctors - the Master has one more plan before getting killed
Destiny of the Doctors
TV movie
But my friends seem to disagree, placing Destiny of the Doctors during Ainley 1.0, despite it being readily apparent that the game is intended to lead into the TV movie.
What do you guys think?
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Post by CookieMaster on Apr 12, 2017 6:24:21 GMT
Its no easy task piecing together this era of his life. In its most basic form, for me, it simply goes Ainley-Beevers-Tipple, with Tipple possibly being the faux-regeneration from First Frontier and almost on the verge of total reversion back to Beevers by the opening of the TVM. The book form of First Frontier isn't quite what happens in my mind (waits for adaption...), so I don't need to worry about Ainley being there.
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Post by constonks on Apr 15, 2017 14:25:24 GMT
Well I've usually ignored Destiny of the Doctors but given that the Master gets dragged off by "those monsters" it's safe to say it doesn't have to be a prologue to the movie.
I personally have all Ainley stuff before Dust Breeding, including First Frontier etc. with the Basil Rathbone Master. That way, we can just assume that after Master, the Master just stole another body shaped like Gordon Tipple.
As for The Eight Doctors, I count the scene with the Morgs as right after his degeneration following Happy Endings, while the scene with the Daleks is in his Tipple body.
Oh! And I have First Frontier as directly after Survival as the text clearly states that he jumped right from the Cheetah Planet to Earth in the 50s, whereas the BBC Books Master-is-still-infected stories say nothing of the sort.
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Post by sailorhaumea on Apr 15, 2017 17:55:12 GMT
Well I've usually ignored Destiny of the Doctors but given that the Master gets dragged off by "those monsters" it's safe to say it doesn't have to be a prologue to the movie. I personally have all Ainley stuff before Dust Breeding, including First Frontier etc. with the Basil Rathbone Master. That way, we can just assume that after Master, the Master just stole another body shaped like Gordon Tipple. As for The Eight Doctors, I count the scene with the Morgs as right after his degeneration following Happy Endings, while the scene with the Daleks is in his Tipple body. Oh! And I have First Frontier as directly after Survival as the text clearly states that he jumped right from the Cheetah Planet to Earth in the 50s, whereas the BBC Books Master-is-still-infected stories say nothing of the sort. I get the impression that Ainley actually felt like "those monsters" were planning to execute him, given how he's pleading with the Doctor and Graak to help him. |
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Post by sailorhaumea on Apr 15, 2017 17:58:29 GMT
Does this work?
Survival
First Frontier
Housewarming
Happy Endings
The Master regresses back to Ainley
Stop the Pigeon
Prime Time
Prisoners of Time
Destiny of the Doctors
Dust Breeding
Master
The Eight Doctors
TV Movie
Hang on, didn't the regeneration into Rathbone cure the Cheetah virus? Why would it come back?
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Post by constonks on Apr 15, 2017 20:33:26 GMT
Does this work? Survival First Frontier Housewarming Happy Endings The Master regresses back to Ainley Stop the Pigeon Prime Time Prisoners of Time Destiny of the Doctors Dust Breeding Master The Eight Doctors TV Movie Hang on, didn't the regeneration into Rathbone cure the Cheetah virus? Why would it come back? Yeah, but if he degenerates back to his previous form (a process we know little about other than the fact that he was looking for yet another new body while still Rathbone), then his "previous form" could easily be Cheetah-Ainley rather than plain vanilla Ainley. That order is exactly what I have in my own timeline, though! |
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Post by sailorhaumea on Apr 15, 2017 20:58:11 GMT
Does this work? Survival First Frontier Housewarming Happy Endings The Master regresses back to Ainley Stop the Pigeon Prime Time Prisoners of Time Destiny of the Doctors Dust Breeding Master The Eight Doctors TV Movie Hang on, didn't the regeneration into Rathbone cure the Cheetah virus? Why would it come back? Yeah, but if he degenerates back to his previous form (a process we know little about other than the fact that he was looking for yet another new body while still Rathbone), then his "previous form" could easily be Cheetah-Ainley rather than plain vanilla Ainley. That order is exactly what I have in my own timeline, though! I'm wondering where to slot Omegamorphosis in. |
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Post by sherlock on Apr 15, 2017 21:59:14 GMT
Yeah, but if he degenerates back to his previous form (a process we know little about other than the fact that he was looking for yet another new body while still Rathbone), then his "previous form" could easily be Cheetah-Ainley rather than plain vanilla Ainley. That order is exactly what I have in my own timeline, though! I'm wondering where to slot Omegamorphosis in. Depending on explicit The Eight Doctors is in describing the Master, it could go between Master and The Eight Doctors. I believe it depicts him hunting for a new body, and as he's not in a scarred body in The Eight Doctors or the Movie it could be he found a new body to hijack after the events of Omegamorphosis, presumably resembling Gordon Tipple, then did the Deathworm stuff in The Eight Doctors and was then killed by the Daleks in the Movie. |
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Post by constonks on Apr 15, 2017 21:59:25 GMT
Yeah, but if he degenerates back to his previous form (a process we know little about other than the fact that he was looking for yet another new body while still Rathbone), then his "previous form" could easily be Cheetah-Ainley rather than plain vanilla Ainley. That order is exactly what I have in my own timeline, though! I'm wondering where to slot Omegamorphosis in. He's in a borrowed body, looking to steal another. Seven's alone, although that doesn't tell us much. Could be Ainley or Tipple. I have it as Tipple myself just to give that Master another story. sherlock above: Eight Doctors has two scenes with the Master and the deathworm: one is clearly Cheetah Ainley, when he gets the creature from the Morgs. The second leads into the TV Movie and is ambiguous about the Master involved. |
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Post by sherlock on Apr 15, 2017 22:45:42 GMT
I'm wondering where to slot Omegamorphosis in. He's in a borrowed body, looking to steal another. Seven's alone, although that doesn't tell us much. Could be Ainley or Tipple. I have it as Tipple myself just to give that Master another story. sherlock above: Eight Doctors has two scenes with the Master and the deathworm: one is clearly Cheetah Ainley, when he gets the creature from the Morgs. The second leads into the TV Movie and is ambiguous about the Master involved. So the placement of Omegamorphosis works if we assume the earlier scene of those two takes place long before the other when he was in infected Ainley form. So so we could go with: Survival First Frontier Housewarming Happy Endings -Eventual degeneration to Ainley- Stop the Pigeon Prime Time The Eight Doctors Scene 1 -Eventual curing of the Virus- Destiny of the Doctors Prisoners of Time Dust Breeding Master Omegamorphosis The Eight Doctors Scene 2 The TV Movie |
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Post by sailorhaumea on Apr 16, 2017 0:12:32 GMT
A bigger question is how to reconcile the multiple conflicting accounts of how the Master escaped the Eye of Harmony.
DWM can kinda work if we assume Kroton puts him back in the Eye of Harmony, but MacQueen claims he last saw the Doctor in the TV movie. So...huh?
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Post by constonks on Apr 16, 2017 0:45:34 GMT
A bigger question is how to reconcile the multiple conflicting accounts of how the Master escaped the Eye of Harmony. DWM can kinda work if we assume Kroton puts him back in the Eye of Harmony, but MacQueen claims he last saw the Doctor in the TV movie. So...huh? Does he say that? Thought he was just surprised to see him and mentioned the haircut. |
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Post by sherlock on Apr 16, 2017 9:06:14 GMT
A bigger question is how to reconcile the multiple conflicting accounts of how the Master escaped the Eye of Harmony. DWM can kinda work if we assume Kroton puts him back in the Eye of Harmony, but MacQueen claims he last saw the Doctor in the TV movie. So...huh? His memory might just be dodgy, given how much he's been through over the years some memories must have got lost along the way. My timeline has it: The Movie The Fallen The Glorious Dead (Ends with him getting trapped somewhere, might as well be the Eye of Harmony again) Forgotten (Escapes the Eye again) Mastermind Dark Eyes 2 Dark Eyes 3 UNIT: Dominion The Two Masters Dark Eyes 4 The Eleventh Doctor Year 2 (Don't know names of individual comics) Utopia Meanwhile an 'echo' of the Master is left behind in the TARDIS and pops up in the EDAs: The Eight Doctors Sometime Never... The Deadstone Memorial The Gallifrey Chronicles |
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Post by constonks on Apr 16, 2017 13:18:18 GMT
A bigger question is how to reconcile the multiple conflicting accounts of how the Master escaped the Eye of Harmony. DWM can kinda work if we assume Kroton puts him back in the Eye of Harmony, but MacQueen claims he last saw the Doctor in the TV movie. So...huh? His memory might just be dodgy, given how much he's been through over the years some memories must have got lost along the way. My timeline has it: The Movie The Fallen The Glorious Dead (Ends with him getting trapped somewhere, might as well be the Eye of Harmony again) Forgotten (Escapes the Eye again) Mastermind Dark Eyes 2 Dark Eyes 3 UNIT: Dominion The Two Masters Dark Eyes 4 The Eleventh Doctor Year 2 (Don't know names of individual comics) Utopia Meanwhile an 'echo' of the Master is left behind in the TARDIS and pops up in the EDAs: The Eight Doctors Sometime Never... The Deadstone Memorial The Gallifrey Chronicles Hm. I generally just put Sometime Never etc between The Glorious Dead and Forgotten. That way it's all the real Master. |
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Post by sherlock on Apr 16, 2017 13:22:43 GMT
His memory might just be dodgy, given how much he's been through over the years some memories must have got lost along the way. My timeline has it: The Movie The Fallen The Glorious Dead (Ends with him getting trapped somewhere, might as well be the Eye of Harmony again) Forgotten (Escapes the Eye again) Mastermind Dark Eyes 2 Dark Eyes 3 UNIT: Dominion The Two Masters Dark Eyes 4 The Eleventh Doctor Year 2 (Don't know names of individual comics) Utopia Meanwhile an 'echo' of the Master is left behind in the TARDIS and pops up in the EDAs: The Eight Doctors Sometime Never... The Deadstone Memorial The Gallifrey Chronicles Hm. I generally just put Sometime Never etc between The Glorious Dead and Forgotten. That way it's all the real Master. It could go there easily. It was my understanding that one of appearances of the Master referred to himself as an echo, implying the real deal was elsewhere, I could be wrong. |
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