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Post by MayoTango131 on Apr 12, 2017 15:41:02 GMT
As much as I appreciate the great effort of Big Finish audios, I must confess that I miss the old days of the Virgin Missing Adventures and the Past Doctor Adventures when they used to publish books with all the Doctors and not just the current incarnation. There is a lot of freedom in prose, the beauty of atmospheric writing and an imagination without limits to write stories that would be impossible to realize in TV and audio.
A few years ago we had only The Wheel of Ice, Harvest of Time and Engines of War. Would you like to have more adventures with the classic eight Doctors plus the previous new series Doctors in novels again?
A message for all Millennials: The books are great, it's like having a TV on your head.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 12, 2017 16:17:42 GMT
I sense I'm older than you but I loved the Target books when I was growing up because vhs or DVD? What that then? Literally the only way to relive a story, or enjoy it for the first time. Tomb of the Cybermen baffled me because Troughton was on the cover and as far as I knew the Doctor looked like Tom Baker! No idea what regeneration was then or that there had been earlier Doctors. Despite that Peter and Colin were more my Doctors due to my age.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Apr 12, 2017 16:20:56 GMT
I'm sure that once James Goss has wrung the last out of the Douglas Adams archive, they'll commission something with a different Doctor to the fourth. A message for all Millennials: The books are great, it's like having a TV on your head. Like, with subtitles? And having to to turn the pages manually, like a caveman?
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Post by sherlock on Apr 12, 2017 16:45:17 GMT
They seem to do one a year at the moment. Last year was In the Blood with the tenth Doctor, before that The Drosten's Curse with the fourth Doctor in 2015. No idea if there's one lined up for this year. There's also the e-books, though they are short. I'd like to see more, but also some more re-prints of classic novels.
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Post by relativetime on Apr 12, 2017 21:08:37 GMT
It would be nice to have a more frequent range of books for the classic Doctors again. There are just some stories Big Finish can't tell with certain characters anymore - the Brogadier, Sarah Jane, Liz Shaw, Evelyn - without resorting to recasting, short trips, or a lot of narration. Books have no such restriction (unless by copyright). I think that would be appealing to a lot of writers who've wanted to write another epic six parter (or longer) with Sarah Jane and the Doctor, but can't do it through audio.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 0:58:06 GMT
I'm sure that once James Goss has wrung the last out of the Douglas Adams archive, they'll commission something with a different Doctor to the fourth. A message for all Millennials: The books are great, it's like having a TV on your head. Like, with subtitles? And having to to turn the pages manually, like a caveman? Nah, nah, it's like... Christopher Lee reading out The Hobbit, except you're Christopher Lee. Millennial here. *cough* Millennial trying to write a past Doctor book here actually, now that I think about it... I think what's happened is that with the advent of the internet, those stories are still out there, they've just hidden away on fanfiction websites and blogs. Now, I know that "fanfiction" is a word that often gets thrown around as a synonym for garbage and bad stories certainly do exist, but the professional quality of some of these undiscovered stories is actually rather marvellous. Here's a series of stories leading to and from Scream of the Shalka, there's a short tale about Martha Jones becoming a role model to a girl from a plantation and way over there is a snippet about the explanation behind Z-67 Sullivan Gas. I think what they really need is what all stories need, a bit of a leg-up for exposure. I was a bit surprised that there wasn't a website that did precisely that and... turns out there is. Apparently, Calufrax exists for precisely that reason; people pop up their recommendations for Teaspoon and an Open Mind and give a reason for why it appeals to them. Actually... Why don't we have a thread like that here on Divergent Universe? There's a thought.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Apr 13, 2017 11:49:27 GMT
I do have an idea for a 12th Doctor Book which at the end of this year would become a Past Doctor adventure lol
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Apr 21, 2017 16:05:36 GMT
I wonder if BF had ever thought about trying to reacquire a prose license? A run of Past Doctor novels or short story compilations would perhaps be the easiest way to tackle the New Who doctors, given all the scheduling issues and muted reception to the Chronicles boxset.
I'd certainly like to see another War Doctor novel released at some point, Engines Of War was great...
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Post by constonks on Apr 22, 2017 0:48:30 GMT
There used to be over twenty novels a year, half covering the current Doctor, half covering past Docs. Now we usually get about four. Three current, one past (sometimes just a novelisation). Last year we got one whole novel.
It's sad, really. In comics and on audio, Doctor Who is thriving. But the section of the expanded universe that really kept the ship afloat during the Wilderness Years is barely around anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 2:46:23 GMT
There used to be over twenty novels a year, half covering the current Doctor, half covering past Docs. Now we usually get about four. Three current, one past (sometimes just a novelisation). Last year we got one whole novel. It's sad, really. In comics and on audio, Doctor Who is thriving. But the section of the expanded universe that really kept the ship afloat during the Wilderness Years is barely around anymore. It's weird because I remember the Tenth Doctor getting such a vibrant life in prose, I have very fond memories of Peacemaker and Prisoner of the Daleks. When he left the show, we'd seen so many aspects of him across both mediums that it felt as though his incarnation's life was whole. I'm not sure whether it was his immediate successor or the beginning of the Twelfth Doctor, but sometime just after the anniversary, there seemed like a shortfall of new prose stories. Doctor Who's appeal that had been wearing off for a little while by that point had sunk in. Maybe a side effect of that was that there isn't the market so much anymore? Paper books are costly to produce and if no one's buying them, then... well, money talks.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 3:42:42 GMT
There used to be over twenty novels a year, half covering the current Doctor, half covering past Docs. Now we usually get about four. Three current, one past (sometimes just a novelisation). Last year we got one whole novel. It's sad, really. In comics and on audio, Doctor Who is thriving. But the section of the expanded universe that really kept the ship afloat during the Wilderness Years is barely around anymore. It's weird because I remember the Tenth Doctor getting such a vibrant life in prose, I have very fond memories of Peacemaker and Prisoner of the Daleks. When he left the show, we'd seen so many aspects of him across both mediums that it felt as though his incarnation's life was whole. I'm not sure whether it was his immediate successor or the beginning of the Twelfth Doctor, but sometime just after the anniversary, there seemed like a shortfall of new prose stories. Doctor Who's appeal that had been wearing off for a little while by that point had sunk in. Maybe a side effect of that was that there isn't the market so much anymore? Paper books are costly to produce and if no one's buying them, then... well, money talks. Understandably in 2005 the books went from being aimed at older teenage boys and above to skewing all ages when the show came back. A perfectly good decision - the only one really - but one that stopped me buying them after checking out the first few Eccleston ones. They were OK adventures but they were like reading a run of the mill Target in terms of scope and prose. As someone who grew up with the VNAs and the Missing Adventures, then the 8DAs and PDAs it was too much of a regression for me to really get into. The books pre-2005 were never consistent but they were more advanced reads and being in my 20s when the show came back the new series books weren't for me, nor were they aimed at me. The tonal shift was like going from Torchwood to Sarah Jane Adventures and it happened relatively quickly once the show was on air again. Probably for the best - I don't know how old you were in the early 2000s but Who books were not as easy to find as a new series fan would imagine. I had to get the suitably titled John Smith's bookshop to order them in for me as they were never on shelves and even Forbidden Planet didn't carry them towards the end. It's a shame there couldn't have been more past Doctor stories written in a more mature style but I stuggle to be bitter about not getting more of the "adult" books - we got a few hundred titles out of it. Not a bad innings and we do get the odd few still. And it was undeniably exciting to see a whole new generation of fans come along and - gasp - Doctor Who to become mainstream. You'd see the books everywhere in the RTD era. In the Doctor Forever documentary series on the DVDs, we learned the Beeb were very, very keen to ensure the new Doctor would be the only "current" one and RTD had to personally intervene to prevent the licence for BF being pulled. Imagine a world where that happened...the Main Range would have ended at 65 or so. We'd have had No Lucie Miller. No Companion Chronicles. No Jago & Litefoot. No Tom Baker. Those New Who books and the rest of the new series merch nearly cost us the last 12 years!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 4:19:04 GMT
It's a shame there couldn't have been more past Doctor stories written in a more mature style but I stuggle to be bitter about not getting more of the "adult" books - we got a few hundred titles out of it. Not a bad innings and we do get the odd few still. And it was undeniably exciting to see a whole new generation of fans come along and - gasp - Doctor Who to become mainstream. You'd see the books everywhere in the RTD era. And there were a few books with a more mature subject matter that peeked through. The aforementioned Prisoner of the Daleks graphically murders its would-be companion material in the first chapter or so, Peacemaker has a very vivid sequence where a harmless, unarmed schoolteacher is shot in the gut and blood goes everywhere, The Stealers of Dreams is about the really scary power of rhetoric and what shape a society can take from it, etc. It never went so far as the VNA's idea (very typical of cyberpunk sci-fi) that human beings are often the real monsters, but they managed to squeeze some of the stronger ideas through for the new run. A bit more family friendly, but they're still lurking underneath. Most of them came from the old guard actually, Simon Messingham's The Doctor Trap really surprised me. In the Doctor Forever documentary series on the DVDs, we learned the Beeb were very, very keen to ensure the new Doctor would be the only "current" one and RTD had to personally intervene to prevent the licence for BF being pulled. Imagine a world where that happened...the Main Range would have ended at 65 or so. We'd have had No Lucie Miller. No Companion Chronicles. No Jago & Litefoot. No Tom Baker. Those New Who books and the rest of the new series merch nearly cost us the last 12 years! It's why I'm always in favour of letting fandoms create new material rather than trying to sink it like with Star Wars and Star Trek.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 4:58:19 GMT
Right, but I wasn't referring to "more adult" to mean things like people getting shot, or the subject matter itself. More the general prose styles, the themes underpinning a lot of the stories, the density and use of the language itself. Again, I've only read the first wave from years ago but they were written in a way that just didn't work for me as an adult beyond being fun little reads. I've no idea how old you are and if you were younger than me when reading them.They were too..I don't want to say juvenile as thats more dismissive that I intend (especially since they were supposed to be kid-friendly!)... but after a decade of the Virgin books, the BBC ones and the much underrated Telos Novellas the new series ones just weren't for me. Even though God knows some of the books in the wilderness years deserve to remain in the wilderness. What I guess I'm saying is that the new series essentially ended the commissioning of books for adults because for the first time since the Target heyday the market for Doctor Who was full of kids again and you don't get a Lawrence Miles or a David Bishop to write kids books. It meant that, as the OP implies, there was really a very sudden gap in the market thats never really been filled since. You wouldn't get an Alien Bodies, Damaged Goods, Witch Hunters or an Interference in the post-2005 Who market and that's a wee bit sad for those of us who grew up with Doctor Who as a series of books just as much as a TV show.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 6:58:51 GMT
Right, but I wasn't referring to "more adult" to mean things like people getting shot, or the subject matter itself. More the general prose styles, the themes underpinning a lot of the stories, the density and use of the language itself. Again, I've only read the first wave from years ago but they were written in a way that just didn't work for me as an adult beyond being fun little reads. I've no idea how old you are and if you were younger than me when reading them.They were too..I don't want to say juvenile as thats more dismissive that I intend (especially since they were supposed to be kid-friendly!)... but after a decade of the Virgin books, the BBC ones and the much underrated Telos Novellas the new series ones just weren't for me. Even though God knows some of the books in the wilderness years deserve to remain in the wilderness. What I guess I'm saying is that the new series essentially ended the commissioning of books for adults because for the first time since the Target heyday the market for Doctor Who was full of kids again and you don't get a Lawrence Miles or a David Bishop to write kids books. It meant that, as the OP implies, there was really a very sudden gap in the market thats never really been filled since. You wouldn't get an Alien Bodies, Damaged Goods, Witch Hunters or an Interference in the post-2005 Who market and that's a wee bit sad for those of us who grew up with Doctor Who as a series of books just as much as a TV show. No, I get what you mean. It's the difference between Gormenghast and Harry Potter. I'm not sure if it's just me, but part of why I really enjoy the Virgin novels isn't only because of it's "go hard or go home" attitude, but also that it had a very Terry Pratchett's Discworld feel to them. The complexity wasn't skin deep, there was a lot there to consider and unpack in regards to characters not being just good or evil, but a combination of the two. In a very real sense as well, the Doctor of the 1990s was a distinctly untrustworthy individual because he was acting for greater interests that we weren't privy to. Interests that went above and beyond individual lives and the sacrifices were keenly felt because each person was so completely sketched out. The scars lasted. It's the difference between an alien intelligence taking control of a friend and using them to kill you and the rather horrifying alternative that this is your friend acting against you because they believe it's the right thing to do. There's no outside influence, it's all them. The Brigadier's haunting -- "I only did it for the children," where he realises he's about to callously murder someone else's child in an act of revenge. Really powerful stuff like that. I can certainly understand missing that. I wish we still had it actually. The NAs get a bad reputation that often flanderises it, but a lot of their stories dealt very well with a lot of really mature subject matters. The equal power and powerlessness behind time travel, the moral complexities of conflict, the psychological exhaustion at seeing people die day-by-day, all that stuff. Amazingly, it still stayed as Doctor Who despite all of that. I think that speaks to the state of Doctor Who at the moment that the recent-ish The Peterloo Massacre was a shock to the system. Maybe that'll change in the future? It's not as if these stories don't still exist. There are well-written fanfic stories that deal with more adult circumstances like A Problem of Background.
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Post by sailorhaumea on Apr 23, 2017 2:41:17 GMT
There are quite a few mature New Series Adventures.
Among them are Prisoner of the Daleks, The Eyeless, and Judgement of the Judoon.
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Post by lidar on Apr 23, 2017 14:39:34 GMT
Dr who and the krikkitmen by douglas adams and james goss listed on amazon for a jan 2018 release date
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 23, 2017 18:52:56 GMT
Dr who and the krikkitmen by douglas adams and james goss listed on amazon for a jan 2018 release date That's...that's just stupid.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 23, 2017 18:55:16 GMT
It's why I'm always in favour of letting fandoms create new material rather than trying to sink it like with Star Wars and Star Trek. That's something I'd take with a small european salt mine! Fandoms are like everything else, opinionated and frequently strident about their pet niche projects. Sometimes they get it so right, but no more than anyone else does.
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Post by lidar on Apr 23, 2017 19:40:48 GMT
Dr who and the krikkitmen by douglas adams and james goss listed on amazon for a jan 2018 release date That's...that's just stupid. No different in principle from bf's lost stories surely? Given the commercial potential of the name Douglas Adams on the cover one can understand the publisher's rationale.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 23, 2017 19:44:07 GMT
Dr who and the krikkitmen by douglas adams and james goss listed on amazon for a jan 2018 release date That's...that's just stupid. Why so?
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