bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
|
Post by bobod on Apr 27, 2017 12:20:39 GMT
There was a rather nice moment in 'The Beast Below', where Amy was floating outside the Tardis, with the Doctor holding onto her ankle. Again, very brief. I think that was her quota of wonderment - after that, she seemed pretty blase. Shut up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 12:22:51 GMT
There was a rather nice moment in 'The Beast Below', where Amy was floating outside the Tardis, with the Doctor holding onto her ankle. Again, very brief. I think that was her quota of wonderment - after that, she seemed pretty blase. Shut up.
Or even, to quote Clara from 'Dark Water', "Shut up shut up shut up shut up!"
|
|
|
Post by elkawho on Apr 27, 2017 13:04:58 GMT
I was a little put off by Amy at first (although I LOVED Amelia), but warmed to her over time. She's still not up there with my favorite companions, but I'd be thrilled to hear that she's working with Big Finish.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 13:08:33 GMT
"although I LOVED Amelia"
Ah, yes, the supposed seven year old who looks way too tall and old to be seven. I guess casting an actual seven year old would have been hard... the younger the child actor, the less time they are legally allowed to film.
|
|
|
Post by MayoTango131 on Apr 27, 2017 13:15:21 GMT
It seems that a lot of people do not understand the phrase "four psychologists", their parents thought that their daughter was crazy, the other children made fun of her, and Amy spent all her life trying to prove that a madman in a box was real. Her attitude is totally justified. The comic Imaginary Enemies (DWM 455) verifies that my theory is correct. I think Rory is the only one who sees her crying alone while others see her as a pathetic insane. claudiaboleyn.tumblr.com/post/102899336301/ritchandspace-bisexualamy-amy-pondI'm glad Imaginary Enemies proves you correct, but I have never seen it. I have just seen the television show. And on that show, we were told Amy had a rough, confused upbringing, but we were never shown that. We just saw the result of it - and the result was (I stress, for me as a viewer) that she was brattish and unreasonable a lot of the time, especially in her early stories. What was it she called Rory? Stupid face, or something like that? That was 'her way' of communicating her love for him? If someone communicated their love for me that way, then I wouldn't be over inclined to stay with them. Maybe you could explain the 'four psychologists' phrase to me, and how it justifies her trying to have sex with someone on the eve of her wedding to someone else (thanks for the link - very interesting)? (Must remind myself, it's only a TV show!!) Yeah, but first. Can you explain why Martha Jones "falls in love" with the Doctor for just a kiss? She was a virgin and it was her first time? If I had been in her place I would have gone after the millions of times he mentioned "Rose" so coolly in my face or to be unlovely unfeeling.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 13:23:05 GMT
I'm glad Imaginary Enemies proves you correct, but I have never seen it. I have just seen the television show. And on that show, we were told Amy had a rough, confused upbringing, but we were never shown that. We just saw the result of it - and the result was (I stress, for me as a viewer) that she was brattish and unreasonable a lot of the time, especially in her early stories. What was it she called Rory? Stupid face, or something like that? That was 'her way' of communicating her love for him? If someone communicated their love for me that way, then I wouldn't be over inclined to stay with them. Maybe you could explain the 'four psychologists' phrase to me, and how it justifies her trying to have sex with someone on the eve of her wedding to someone else (thanks for the link - very interesting)? (Must remind myself, it's only a TV show!!) Yeah, but first. Can you explain why Martha Jones "falls in love" with the Doctor for just a kiss? She was a virgin and it was her first time? If I had been in her place I would have gone after the millions of times he mentioned "Rose" so coolly in my face or to be unlovely unfeeling. I can't explain that. Neither can I rationalise my inital dislike for Amy by justifying the heart-led actions of another companion. I agree, I wouldn't have stuck around if I was in love with someone who was so clearly longing after someone else - especially if he was a gentleman of many faces who travels around time and space in a Police Box. I would be over-awed with that, as Martha was, and Amy wasn't. As for the 'four psychologists' phrase you mentioned, I am genuinely unfamiliar with it. If it helps me understand Amy, then I would love to know about it, because on face value, I'm afraid I could never warm to her.
|
|
|
Post by MayoTango131 on Apr 27, 2017 13:25:35 GMT
I have no problem with ANY of Amy's behaviour in that first season. I think it's validated by the fiction (and reacted to by the Doctor) AND much too funny for people to take it at face value and think she's even remotely offensive. I don't necessarily find her offensive, just very unlikeable, at least initially. I think her problems - the problems that resulted in her behaviour - should have been given more prominence if we viewers are required to understand her and 'where she's coming from.' I'm remembering a scene, ('Amy's Choice', I think) where she demands of the Doctor 'What's the point of you??' This, after he, as always, had done everything he could to salvage the latest situation. Unreasonable and uncompromising, on top of other unreasonable and uncompromising things she's said. Perhaps this could most simply boil down to the fact that I didn't really take to the character, which is strange as the actress seems lovely. Different strokes for different folks and all that. Emm... Rory died and turned to dust in front of her when she said that in tears and anger, and it is very understandable that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 13:30:35 GMT
I'm glad Imaginary Enemies proves you correct, but I have never seen it. I have just seen the television show. And on that show, we were told Amy had a rough, confused upbringing, but we were never shown that. We just saw the result of it - and the result was (I stress, for me as a viewer) that she was brattish and unreasonable a lot of the time, especially in her early stories. What was it she called Rory? Stupid face, or something like that? That was 'her way' of communicating her love for him? If someone communicated their love for me that way, then I wouldn't be over inclined to stay with them. Maybe you could explain the 'four psychologists' phrase to me, and how it justifies her trying to have sex with someone on the eve of her wedding to someone else (thanks for the link - very interesting)? (Must remind myself, it's only a TV show!!) Yeah, but first. Can you explain why Martha Jones "falls in love" with the Doctor for just a kiss? She was a virgin and it was her first time? If I had been in her place I would have gone after the millions of times he mentioned "Rose" so coolly in my face or to be unlovely unfeeling. "Falls in love" is definitely too strong a term for it, I'd say that she fancies him. Dashing, charismatic, mysterious stranger who saves her life and the life of those in the hospital she was interning in, there'd definitely be an element of attraction there. However, unlike Rose, I think Martha is kicking herself for it and the Doctor doesn't once lead her on about it. He's very pointed about how the kiss means nothing and defuses romantic situations, yet praises her as a friend for her courage and her resourcefulness on many an occasion. And that's what it is, it is a good friendship. One that's complicated by irrational human feelings and a man with a bad history. She makes the decision at the end to walk out of the TARDIS because it's a situation that needs to be resolved by space apart. Honestly, I think it shows a lot of maturity for her character both that she stays with the Doctor, she doesn't try anything when he becomes John Smith and that she makes that final decision herself without any coaxing. By the time we see her later with UNIT, she's well and truly moved on from her crush. I think she probably would have gone back aboard the TARDIS with everything resolved if not for the obligations back on Earth.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 13:30:51 GMT
I don't necessarily find her offensive, just very unlikeable, at least initially. I think her problems - the problems that resulted in her behaviour - should have been given more prominence if we viewers are required to understand her and 'where she's coming from.' I'm remembering a scene, ('Amy's Choice', I think) where she demands of the Doctor 'What's the point of you??' This, after he, as always, had done everything he could to salvage the latest situation. Unreasonable and uncompromising, on top of other unreasonable and uncompromising things she's said. Perhaps this could most simply boil down to the fact that I didn't really take to the character, which is strange as the actress seems lovely. Different strokes for different folks and all that. Emm... Rory died and turned to dust in front of her when she said that in tears and anger, and it is very understandable that. Turning her anger and vitriol on the person who had tried to save him, as I remember. Pointing the finger at the wrong person, again. Yes, it was her grief speaking, and understandable to some extent. But it is hardly an isolated example of her superficial hostility.
|
|
bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
|
Post by bobod on Apr 27, 2017 13:31:04 GMT
I was assuming it was a reference to Amy's line in The Eleventh Hour about her having had counselling as opposed to "four psychologists" being an actual term for something. Sometimes MayoTango131's phrasing and sentence structure can be hard to follow.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 13:35:11 GMT
I was assuming it was a reference to Amy's line in The Eleventh Hour about her having had counselling as opposed to "four psychologists" being an actual term for something. Sometimes MayoTango131's phrasing and sentence structure can be hard to follow. Ah, I understand. Thank you. I genuinely wasn't clear on what was meant here.
|
|
bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
|
Post by bobod on Apr 27, 2017 13:36:40 GMT
Found it - I was confused as well until I twigged it wasn't some train of medical thinking. And googling 'four psychologists' hadn't helped as that wasn't the line.
The Doctor: You're Amelia! Amy Pond: [pulling at her skirt] You're late! The Doctor: [walking alongside] Amelia Pond! You're the little girl! Amy Pond: I'm Amelia, and you're late. The Doctor: What happened? Amy Pond: Twelve years! The Doctor: You hit me with a cricket bat! Amy Pond: Ha! Twelve years! The Doctor: A cricket bat! Amy Pond: Twelve years, and four psychiatrists! The Doctor: Four? Amy Pond: I kept biting them! The Doctor: Why? Amy Pond: They said you weren't real.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 13:41:00 GMT
Aha! Cheers - I tried googling it too. Now I know!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 13:43:44 GMT
Found it - I was confused as well until I twigged it wasn't some train of medical thinking. And googling 'four psychologists' hadn't helped as that wasn't the line. The Doctor: You're Amelia! Amy Pond: [pulling at her skirt] You're late! The Doctor: [walking alongside] Amelia Pond! You're the little girl! Amy Pond: I'm Amelia, and you're late. The Doctor: What happened? Amy Pond: Twelve years! The Doctor: You hit me with a cricket bat! Amy Pond: Ha! Twelve years! The Doctor: A cricket bat! Amy Pond: Twelve years, and four psychiatrists! The Doctor: Four? Amy Pond: I kept biting them! The Doctor: Why? Amy Pond: They said you weren't real. Oh, yikes. Psychiatrists are the variety that prescribe drugs to cope with mental disorders like schizophrenia or delusion. Given that young Amelia-- Oh... Ohhhh... Noooo... Prescriptions are sketchy at the best of times, let alone when a person doesn't actually need them.
|
|
|
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Apr 27, 2017 14:01:44 GMT
Found it - I was confused as well until I twigged it wasn't some train of medical thinking. And googling 'four psychologists' hadn't helped as that wasn't the line. The Doctor: You're Amelia! Amy Pond: [pulling at her skirt] You're late! The Doctor: [walking alongside] Amelia Pond! You're the little girl! Amy Pond: I'm Amelia, and you're late. The Doctor: What happened? Amy Pond: Twelve years! The Doctor: You hit me with a cricket bat! Amy Pond: Ha! Twelve years! The Doctor: A cricket bat! Amy Pond: Twelve years, and four psychiatrists! The Doctor: Four? Amy Pond: I kept biting them! The Doctor: Why? Amy Pond: They said you weren't real. Oh, yikes. Psychiatrists are the variety that prescribe drugs to cope with mental disorders like schizophrenia or delusion. Given that young Amelia-- Oh... Ohhhh... Noooo... Prescriptions are sketchy at the best of times, let alone when a person doesn't actually need them. Somebody has probably written a fanfic somewhere where Ant overdoses overdosed on prescribed drugs.
|
|
|
Post by MayoTango131 on Apr 27, 2017 14:06:29 GMT
As for the 'four psychologists' phrase you mentioned, I am genuinely unfamiliar with it. If it helps me understand Amy, then I would love to know about it, because on face value, I'm afraid I could never warm to her. The best example would be John Connor in Terminator 2. He spent his entire childhood with people telling him that he is destined to do great things and save humanity. Then the police arrive, arrest Sarah Connor and they tell the little boy "Your mother is crazy, did not you know?" John lives the following years full of anger and resentment, even hating his mother for "lying". Then a Terminator in the form of Arnold Schwarzenegger appears, John discovers with shock that everything is true. Amy is similar: in her youth she saw something incredible and magical, try to convince everyone it's true but nobody believes him. For twelve years four psychologists try to convince her that it is not real, and she bites them and she is punished for telling the truth. She creates dolls and stories about the Doctor in the box, creating her unhealthy obsession with him. Amy's abrasive and unfriendly attitude is due to a broken promise and for years she had the reputation of "the weirdo girl of the village". Another example would be the movie " Return to Oz" in which Dorothy tries to convince her parents that her trip to Oz is real, no one believes her and she falls into depression, and her parents send her to an asylum with Electroshock therapies.
|
|
|
Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 27, 2017 14:07:32 GMT
Found it - I was confused as well until I twigged it wasn't some train of medical thinking. And googling 'four psychologists' hadn't helped as that wasn't the line. The Doctor: You're Amelia! Amy Pond: [pulling at her skirt] You're late! The Doctor: [walking alongside] Amelia Pond! You're the little girl! Amy Pond: I'm Amelia, and you're late. The Doctor: What happened? Amy Pond: Twelve years! The Doctor: You hit me with a cricket bat! Amy Pond: Ha! Twelve years! The Doctor: A cricket bat! Amy Pond: Twelve years, and four psychiatrists! The Doctor: Four? Amy Pond: I kept biting them! The Doctor: Why? Amy Pond: They said you weren't real. Oh, yikes. Psychiatrists are the variety that prescribe drugs to cope with mental disorders like schizophrenia or delusion. Given that young Amelia-- Oh... Ohhhh... Noooo... Prescriptions are sketchy at the best of times, let alone when a person doesn't actually need them. I'm wondering did Moffat confuse Psychologists with Psychiatrists, which a lot of people do because they think they're the same thing, especially when it gets addressed in a single scene. Having four psychologists while extreme is still understandable, having four psychiatrists is another thing entirely.
|
|
|
Post by MayoTango131 on Apr 27, 2017 14:21:07 GMT
Emm... Rory died and turned to dust in front of her when she said that in tears and anger, and it is very understandable that. Turning her anger and vitriol on the person who had tried to save him, as I remember. Pointing the finger at the wrong person, again. Yes, it was her grief speaking, and understandable to some extent. But it is hardly an isolated example of her superficial hostility. At least that happened once, it's not like in the RTD era when it happened all the time; when everything bad happened, everybody blamed the Doctor (Sylvia Noble is an example, Midnight, Davros hypocritically accusing him of being the "Destroyer of worlds" considering that he and his Daleks have caused more deaths and destruction on purpose, Francine Jones calling him "dangerous" without knowing him and without justification except for taking his daughter for one night) No wonder the Tenth Doctor has ended up so depressed.
|
|
|
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Apr 27, 2017 14:23:34 GMT
Turning her anger and vitriol on the person who had tried to save him, as I remember. Pointing the finger at the wrong person, again. Yes, it was her grief speaking, and understandable to some extent. But it is hardly an isolated example of her superficial hostility. At least that happened once, it's not like in the RTD era when it happened all the time; when everything bad happened, everybody blamed the Doctor (Sylvia Noble is an example, Midnight, Davros hypocritically accusing him of being the "Destroyer of worlds" considering that he and his Daleks have caused more deaths and destruction on purpose, Francine Jones calling him "dangerous" without knowing him and without justification except for taking his daughter for one night) No wonder the Tenth Doctor has ended up so depressed. I still blame the Tenth Doctor for Love & Monsters. *Shudders*
|
|
|
Post by MayoTango131 on Apr 27, 2017 14:40:34 GMT
Things like that don't really bother me, like I wasn't bothered by Rose's spoilt selfishness or how she treated Mickey. I like to see characters who react in a way that may be real but not necessarily ideal. I've never understood people who say "I don't thing Rose was good because she was selfish / treated Mickey like crap". This is very true. Strangely, I had no real problem with how Rose treated Mickey, because he was, at first, played as someone who was appealingly silly. Also, Rose was hugely appealing in a way that Amy wasn't (to me, at any rate). I like characters who are real too, but I found Amy so ... I don't know, smug? Abrasive? I found these traits heightened in such a way that she became unreal to me. She seemed to be written as a companion that lacked any of the sense of wonder, or appreciation of travelling with The Doctor that Rose did, or that Bill does now. I think that phrase is the best way to describe Clara Oswald. She was never convincing as a companion or real person, her "friendship" with the Doctor and her "romance" with the thing called Danny Pink was very artificial or forced (there was more chemistry with Ashildr in a few seconds than two years with them) and its perfection is very unrealistic, even a Disney princess is more human than Clara. She is like a Lisa Simpson or a Mara Wilson, a very perfect smart girl who pretends to be an adult. And, worst of all, for two years she and Danny Bored tried to convince you that traveling in the TARDIS is not the great thing or impressive. Amy is very passionate and enthusiastic about traveling in the TARDIS with the Doctor and Rory, it was as family vacation trip as it should be.
|
|